Got an S3 which is revo'd and nothing else engine wise. Don't want to go as far as an uprated turbo but whats the next stage for a decent power hike? Say 20-30bhp?
Whats next after Revo if you want more power?
- Thread starter leecs3
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Exhaust certainly. Small increases again but you could get it breathing better too. New hoses, air filter or induction and a TIP.
What's the score with intercoolers on an S3? I'm not too familiar with them. I'm thinking of a front mount? Or do they already have one?
What's the score with intercoolers on an S3? I'm not too familiar with them. I'm thinking of a front mount? Or do they already have one?
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They have two little ones, one either side so a FMIC is always going to be good but IMO only needed once you start getting mega power!
REVO Stage 2?
You'll need CAI, Race CAT and full exhaust,4 Bar FPR and of course the Stage 2 remap. The twin intercoolers on the S3 are quiet effective but for maximum performance with minimum ECU pull-back due to high Exhaust Gas Temps, you will need an FMIC. Call all of that a square £2000 and you'll be looking at another 15% increase in power over Stage 1
You'll need CAI, Race CAT and full exhaust,4 Bar FPR and of course the Stage 2 remap. The twin intercoolers on the S3 are quiet effective but for maximum performance with minimum ECU pull-back due to high Exhaust Gas Temps, you will need an FMIC. Call all of that a square £2000 and you'll be looking at another 15% increase in power over Stage 1
get a turbo upgrade. all the r/c valves, exhaust, free flow cats, FMIC's, N75 valves and filters in the world won't give you 30bhp
lol, the K04 in your S3 will never flow enough air to realistically get beyond about 290bhp.
But changing the turbo is a pretty large move and, let's face it, unrealistic for 99% of people. Who wants there car off the road for upto a couple of weeks and then the fact that it's so far removed from stock that it'll be a pain to sell.
REVO stage 2 is completely bolt on, all the mods can be fitted and removed in a day, the map is switchable by SPS1 and can be tuned to your engines characteristics (boost and timing, basically temperature/fuel related) via SPS3. Oh, and it's cheaper than a turbo conversion.
Full spec Stage 2 will give ~270bhp & 290lb/ft of linear power delivery that'll hold all the way to the redline. Then again, once your in to these amounts of power you should be looking at chassis/suspension upgrades to be getting the best out of them.
But changing the turbo is a pretty large move and, let's face it, unrealistic for 99% of people. Who wants there car off the road for upto a couple of weeks and then the fact that it's so far removed from stock that it'll be a pain to sell.
REVO stage 2 is completely bolt on, all the mods can be fitted and removed in a day, the map is switchable by SPS1 and can be tuned to your engines characteristics (boost and timing, basically temperature/fuel related) via SPS3. Oh, and it's cheaper than a turbo conversion.
Full spec Stage 2 will give ~270bhp & 290lb/ft of linear power delivery that'll hold all the way to the redline. Then again, once your in to these amounts of power you should be looking at chassis/suspension upgrades to be getting the best out of them.
jcb said:
Going 'Big Turbo' will require an uprated re-circ valve, large bore downpipe, uprated intercoolers or aquamist, cold air induction... Not to mention the turbo & manifold then the custom map to make it work! Plus your gonna need the fueling so there's the 4 bar FPR, possibly bigger injectors. Then will you need a new haldex controller to cope with the massive hike in torque?
Getting a turbo upgrade isn't the answer to wanting an extra 10% power. Optimise the existing setup, then tune to chassis to be able to fully exploit it.
balls to all that faff. If you want just quick, cheap power, just go for a ATP eliminator turbo upgrade for $1900. Currency conversion should be on your side, but import duty would be a killer.
Get it mapped, then it's up to you when you get the rest upgraded to see the really big power.
Get it mapped, then it's up to you when you get the rest upgraded to see the really big power.
Tallpaul said:ROFLMAO! Yeah, just bolt it on - simple!
Don't see why 300bhp wouldn't be achievable with an eliminator and a remap.
why wouldn't it be a case of simply bolting it on?
I'd have thought without improving the throughflow of air with a larger downpipe and intake pipe that compressor stall may be an issue... Not 100% on that one.
At any rate you'd be generating massive amounts of heat at 300bhp so i'm not sure how the map would cope with that; ie it probably couldn't. so the ECU will be backing off because the high exhaust gas temps would be outside it's parameters. You may be able to bypass the sensors or something but that's all starting to sound a bit 'standalone management'.
I don't know of ANY 1.8T's that have just bolted on a genuinly bigger turbo and run with just a map. ATP's own blurb is worded carefully and makes no claims of the power that a GTRS and map alone will give. I know one guy fitting one to his Leon Cupra and he already has all the parts for REVO Stage 2 fitted, he is adding the GTRS and getting a REVO Stage 3 map added. He's aiming for 300bhp but won't know until it's done!
At any rate you'd be generating massive amounts of heat at 300bhp so i'm not sure how the map would cope with that; ie it probably couldn't. so the ECU will be backing off because the high exhaust gas temps would be outside it's parameters. You may be able to bypass the sensors or something but that's all starting to sound a bit 'standalone management'.
I don't know of ANY 1.8T's that have just bolted on a genuinly bigger turbo and run with just a map. ATP's own blurb is worded carefully and makes no claims of the power that a GTRS and map alone will give. I know one guy fitting one to his Leon Cupra and he already has all the parts for REVO Stage 2 fitted, he is adding the GTRS and getting a REVO Stage 3 map added. He's aiming for 300bhp but won't know until it's done!
I'll be really interested in the result from that leon cupra dude. These eliminators have caused a bit of a stir for us transverse engined KKK owners, and nobody on here has yet taken the plunge and bought into this new kit...
Personally, if he has the all the stage 2 stuff already installed, then he should really be aiming for 330BHP surely - 300 seems very conservative?
Personally, if he has the all the stage 2 stuff already installed, then he should really be aiming for 330BHP surely - 300 seems very conservative?
madvw said:
Stage 2 REVO on a Leon Cupra is only about 240bhp. The K03s is the limiting factor, hence going to GTRS.
I'm very sceptical about what bolting these eliminators straight on will actually do... As they are designed to fit the OE mani's, DP's and TIPs that leaves a lot of known restrictions in the system. Personnaly i believe that you will need to overcome those to get significant gains - then you're gonna have to up the fueling to match the airflow (over 240 g/s!!!). But, once you have got the power the heat generated is gonna cause real problems too.
the K04 exhaust manifolds are different to those on k03 based setup though - although thats not to say it wouldn't be restrictive.
I'd expect the gains of a GTRS eliminator to be much greater on a stock s3, than on a stock leon cupra. The TIP would need doing though, as it barely takes a remap, however, the injectors according to peoples experiences on here would be OK for anything up to 300 BHP.
I'd expect the gains of a GTRS eliminator to be much greater on a stock s3, than on a stock leon cupra. The TIP would need doing though, as it barely takes a remap, however, the injectors according to peoples experiences on here would be OK for anything up to 300 BHP.
This is the spec of an IHI Leon Cupra R, so basically a fwd S3. It peaks about 360bhp but, as stated, is a real world 320bhp (all this is his words lifted from another forum):
As to the spec of the car, well I gave the lads `carte blanche` to do what they thought was right for me - the car is my `daily driver` and being FWD Mike tailored the power curve for `driveability` rather than full out power - I think he got 400+ ft/lbs and about 380 bhp but decided to set it back a bit - all out BHP was not my sole goal - you will see from the readout that the car gives 320+BHP from 4500 to7500 - the final cut out is 7800
My previous experience of modding over the years tells me that it is easy to get too excited go a bit too far, compromising drivability and/or reliability - thus spoiling the fun!
The `way to happiness`in my opinion, is to aim for 90% use, and engineer for 110% - that`s what i`ve tried to do with the LCR
General opinion was that the PE1820 needed the largeport to maximise the potential benefits - the Dahlback is proven but did not suit the largeport either, and Jabba`s inlet manifold is really still in the development stages, so I was happy to live with the vf34.20 and its slightly faster spoolup time which perhaps suits general road use better - less top end for sure, but almost the same torque as the bigger setup
With general road use in mind, I was happy to stick with the standard S3 pistons as they are strong enough and well run in anyway.
I didn`t want to lower the CR as theory tends to indicate that this affects part throttle/off boost combustion efficiency and thus fuel economy
I wanted to change the rods and the valves, - potential weak spots - just to give myself peace of mind and confidence to use the full available performance.
The forged rods also allowed Mike to fully exploit the vf 34.20`s full potential
Having decided to stay with the smallport, I had it flowed to maximise its potential.
The runners of Dahlback were also flowed and matched to the head.
3" exhaust is needed for this sort of power and 100cell cat used too.
Jabba 3" downpipe/cat/exhaust mated to Milltek 2.75" system before back axle {to avoid clearance problems} - no centre resonator - standard Milltek dual outlet backbox kept {to try to limit noise!]
The standard LCR intercoolers work quite well but are a bit restrictive, so we used Jabba`s front mount, and of course EVO shield phenolic spacer/gasket and Aquamist [water/methanol] to try to kill the heat, and maximise the potential available power.
Also used Jabba`s variable boost to allow for differing driving conditions/ fuel avalability, and Jabba`s cold air induction kit - Hyperboost DV and Samco inlet hose too.
When rebuilding in adittion to the new kit and `bits and bobs` and we also used new lambda probes - new timing belt - new water pump with metal impeller - and Toledo 5ltr washer bottle to maximise range of Aquamist!
Fitted a Spa - Design dual boost/EGT gauge to monitor`events`too
The gearbox is standard internal ratios and final drive - we used an uprated Sachs clutch, and Quaife diff. and Nuespeed quickshift
Brakes are - front Porsche 993 Turbo `Big reds` - 323/32 two piece discs and Porsche Turbo pads - Goodridge hoses - Rear standard size EBC `Turbo Groove ` discs and `Red Stuff`pads
As to the spec of the car, well I gave the lads `carte blanche` to do what they thought was right for me - the car is my `daily driver` and being FWD Mike tailored the power curve for `driveability` rather than full out power - I think he got 400+ ft/lbs and about 380 bhp but decided to set it back a bit - all out BHP was not my sole goal - you will see from the readout that the car gives 320+BHP from 4500 to7500 - the final cut out is 7800
My previous experience of modding over the years tells me that it is easy to get too excited go a bit too far, compromising drivability and/or reliability - thus spoiling the fun!
The `way to happiness`in my opinion, is to aim for 90% use, and engineer for 110% - that`s what i`ve tried to do with the LCR
General opinion was that the PE1820 needed the largeport to maximise the potential benefits - the Dahlback is proven but did not suit the largeport either, and Jabba`s inlet manifold is really still in the development stages, so I was happy to live with the vf34.20 and its slightly faster spoolup time which perhaps suits general road use better - less top end for sure, but almost the same torque as the bigger setup
With general road use in mind, I was happy to stick with the standard S3 pistons as they are strong enough and well run in anyway.
I didn`t want to lower the CR as theory tends to indicate that this affects part throttle/off boost combustion efficiency and thus fuel economy
I wanted to change the rods and the valves, - potential weak spots - just to give myself peace of mind and confidence to use the full available performance.
The forged rods also allowed Mike to fully exploit the vf 34.20`s full potential
Having decided to stay with the smallport, I had it flowed to maximise its potential.
The runners of Dahlback were also flowed and matched to the head.
3" exhaust is needed for this sort of power and 100cell cat used too.
Jabba 3" downpipe/cat/exhaust mated to Milltek 2.75" system before back axle {to avoid clearance problems} - no centre resonator - standard Milltek dual outlet backbox kept {to try to limit noise!]
The standard LCR intercoolers work quite well but are a bit restrictive, so we used Jabba`s front mount, and of course EVO shield phenolic spacer/gasket and Aquamist [water/methanol] to try to kill the heat, and maximise the potential available power.
Also used Jabba`s variable boost to allow for differing driving conditions/ fuel avalability, and Jabba`s cold air induction kit - Hyperboost DV and Samco inlet hose too.
When rebuilding in adittion to the new kit and `bits and bobs` and we also used new lambda probes - new timing belt - new water pump with metal impeller - and Toledo 5ltr washer bottle to maximise range of Aquamist!
Fitted a Spa - Design dual boost/EGT gauge to monitor`events`too
The gearbox is standard internal ratios and final drive - we used an uprated Sachs clutch, and Quaife diff. and Nuespeed quickshift
Brakes are - front Porsche 993 Turbo `Big reds` - 323/32 two piece discs and Porsche Turbo pads - Goodridge hoses - Rear standard size EBC `Turbo Groove ` discs and `Red Stuff`pads
