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Thread: Do not Tune engine in your car, if your car is under warranty!!

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    Do not Tune engine in your car, if your car is under warranty!!

    Main dealer tester VAS 5052, when connected to your car, automatically compares all the software stored on a server in Ingolstad.
    Avoid problems and huge costs.
    Regards Christof71

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    Most people use those tuner boxes that you can load the map then reload standard before going into dealer?

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    If there is, for example, an fault in transmission, in the history of the fault will be given the day, date, time, torque {NM.}
    Chip tunings usually increase torque.
    But tuner boxes are more secure, and uses this method: -}

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    Most guys that have their new cars remapped swap the maps back when then car is booked into the garage for warranty work. VCDS or a code reader has also to be used to clear fault codes as remapping leaves a footprint in the majority of modules that it adjusts.
    Angelwax/BBS/BCS/Bilstein/Cobra/CTS Turbo/H&R/K-Sport/KW/Loba/Milltek/Shark Performance/Oz Racing/VCDS/Wagner

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    in the flash memory is always followed after changing software.
    How many times had changed, the time and date.:-}

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    I was under the impression the flash counter only counted how many times it been flashed and not the exact time and date. And most ecus are probably flashed a few times before even leaving factory

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    Quote Originally Posted by christof71 View Post
    in the flash memory is always followed after changing software.
    How many times had changed, the time and date.:-}
    I have been told there is no time or date for the flash, it is not a computer that uses time and date, how could it possibly use human time measures. That would be a seriously sophisticated ECU to auto update the time/date + account for if the battery is disconnected etc.

    It just tells you the number of times it has been re-flashed as far as I know, meaning theres no way of telling the date of a car map
    Ice Silver Audi S3 (8P3) https://www.facebook.com/benjamin.n.long

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikemc View Post
    I was under the impression the flash counter only counted how many times it been flashed and not the exact time and date. And most ecus are probably flashed a few times before even leaving factory
    +1
    Ice Silver Audi S3 (8P3) https://www.facebook.com/benjamin.n.long

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    check the history of the ECU, use the vas 5052b with the latest software.
    vw audi technician with 20 years experience.
    Good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by christof71 View Post
    check the history of the ECU, use the vas 5052b with the latest software.
    vw audi technician with 20 years experience.
    Good luck
    Sorry this is not much of an explanation,

    could you elaborate on the time/date aspect please if you have said experience
    Ice Silver Audi S3 (8P3) https://www.facebook.com/benjamin.n.long

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    I want to warn you to avoid the problems and costs. Applies to vehicles under warranty.
    Do not ask for details.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christof71 View Post
    I want to warn you to avoid the problems and costs. Applies to vehicles under warranty.
    Do not ask for details.
    Well why can't you elaborate on how the ecu saves the exact second and day it's been flashed. If what your saying was the case then many people going in for services Etc would probably be confronted

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    the problem arises when we check the car to upgrade the software in the event of any malfunction. For example: tester recommends that you upgrade the software in the engine ECU, and it is the first step for further work. Doing so an upgrade and the engine control unit is damaged due to interference of unauthorized software.

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    is an example of the old system, now the software is automatically checked when you connect to a server in ingolstad
    http://nateronline.com/Technical_Bul..._automatic.pdf

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    The TCM you have linked is for USA and in the USA there are a few arguments that are going on at the moment about what is allowed and what isn't allowed. This is at congress level at the moment and both sides are throwing a lot of money at it.

    The war between tuner and car manufacturer has been going on for ever. With the introduction of the EDC and MED17s there was a feeling that the end of OBD tuning was here. Now these ECUs can be ODB flashed even the TP10 and TP11. As for the flash counters that really doesn’t cause too much in the way of problems as they can be reset. This is done by copying the data before the flash and putting back after so all dates, times and counters are as the dealer/importer/manufacturer left them. They can’t spend the time downloading all of the software in the ECU each time as the cost would be too high to the dealer and customer. So they are limited to looking at the Flash counters, checksums or any flags they have left in the software to detect the changes to torque etc. All of the above can be defeated.

    The two points that I think these raises are.

    1, Who is flashing your car? (what do they really know? how are they doing it?)
    2, Why does the dealer have the right to flash your car once you have bought it? This is an even more interesting question and again it’s going to the courts again. I have seen cases where people have had their car flashed and there has been an almighty fight over it. I guess that’s why in the USA they are now asking permission to flash the car as even they don’t think they have the automatic right to do it.

    The cost of these tools and equipment is high so if you are buying cheap remaps at the pub car park don’t expect too much in the finer details
    Last edited by Administrators; 30th May 2013 at 10:43.
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    technical bulletin is from the USA because there is no European online, but it looks exactly the same.
    This is an example.
    Current Audi and VW are like a computer, all the software of the car is stored in the server ingolstad, every time when we diagnose a car problem, connect the car to the tester VAS.
    VAS tester automatically selects the connection onlain, and compares the software in the car agrees with with the software on the server.
    This also applies to long codings, if something is not right automatically restored to original.

    Now I will give you an example.
    Q7 arrives on the warranty of the gearbox problem.
    The first step I connect the VAS 5052, GFF choose the because that is the procedure efficiently. It is error then the tester VAS directs me to read the TSB{ number 04223 EXAMPLE}. TSB tells SVM UPDATE select for gearbox and engine.
    We perform this step and it turns out that it is the newer software gearbox and engine, After the upgrade, very often the engine does not start,only afterwards informs customers that his car was Tuned.
    Replacement costs for a new motor controller borne then he.

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    Remember that software audi very often updated in many modules, not only in the engine.
    These cars during the warranty period have a lot of bags and so that's what we do to remove them, in fact we only serve tester which is produced by the manufacturer of these cars.
    All unauthorized changes to the warranty cause complications, for which the customer pays the most.
    Christof best regards

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    Hi, they aren’t downloading the whole file but reading the EEPROM and looking at the signature. The ECU flags the file as altered due to the signature change.

    The reason for the non-start is the tool you are using only writes part of the file and this screws the checksum. The ECU would recover if you put back the original file as the checksum would then be correct. Any car that comes in with TP7 will be updated by the VAS to a later version of the software to try and improve the security. The VAS machine works on it being a perfect world and can’t cope with many of the problems that the tuning tools are expected to cope with when it comes to recovering dead ECUs.

    As I said this is a war… as one side finds ways to stop the other the other adapts to cope with the change and the whole this escalates. Yes you are correct that if you go and just slap a remap on a car and the tuner is not aware or doesn’t have the right toys you run a risk. Also as the car manufactures change things all the time and there is always the cross over time while the tuning industry catches up.

    I’m sure that the latest holes that have appeared over the last few months will get shut and the use of OE information such as SGO files will also be reduced.

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    I agree that there are lots of changes that are done to these cars but once again this does beg to ask the question about permission for doing these changes and what are the changes they are doing? Normally if you buy some software and there is an update there will be a changes list or a description of what has been altered and why. It is then up to the owner to decide if they want the changes/upgrade done.

    I think that most people would want to get the upgrades done as it would mostly be the sensible choice. I'm sure people would feel “they are doing it for a good reason” so I better get it done. This is part of the trust/relationship that you have with your car manufacture. Having said that I can’t think of many other items you buy where you aren’t given the option before the upgrade takes place without an explanation. This is an industry wide situation that all of the manufactures are complicate in.

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    There is not any war, the problem is unauthorized changes to the software, including modifications without sending SVM.
    Do not touch the car under warranty.
    Audi has a lot of problems with the electronics.
    Can you understand?
    decides to change only the server software in INGOLSTAD that is Audi engineers.
    The client does not have anything here to talk, so that a change in the software is there to correct the problem, and there are a lot of
    I'm audi technician for 20 years, your arguments do not make sense.
    Good luck.
    Last edited by christof71; 31st May 2013 at 07:23.

 

 

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