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Thread: Chris Harris at it again...................

  1. #1
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    Chris Harris at it again...................

    Check it out -

    Chris Harris video: M135i vs A45 AMG - PistonHeads

    Notice his last comment "Why no RS3? It would have been slaughtered"

    This guy is beyond belief, how anyone could say the RS3 is that bad is beyond me? I know I have got rid of mine now but it was a great car?!?!
    Last edited by gilford; 18th July 2013 at 15:21. Reason: Edited to remove my outburst

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  3. #2
    superkarl's Avatar
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    You dont drive cars and review them for a living. You've (probably) not experienced the range of cars in that sector, or quite the selection he has.
    The rs3 had bad press from the get go, so its hardly a surprise is it.
    Why take it to heart labelling someone a ****er. You said you owned one and it was a great car, so whats the problem????
    Theres no need to get so wound up because the latest hot hatches are getting better reviews than what is truthfully quite an old car/design.
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    and 5 doors FFS.....

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    Compared to those it would get destroyed in both handing and raw performance. The A45 is the new daddy and will stay in that role for a long time.

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    I dislike him becuase of his bias towards BMW (and all things RWD in general). When I was looking to buy the RS3 I test drove (at length) the M1 and then the RS3, and then the RS3 again before buying it. I don't mind anyone reviewing a car fairly, he just seems to slate all things Audi, it's good people see past his bias though otherwise Audi would have problems!

    It's all very well taking cars like the BMW on track and then slating 4WD but in real life (which lets face is is 99.9% of the time the later will always be better?

    Sorry for the rant, I just detest this kind of motoring journalism, but happy to be proved wrong by Autocar or the like in the coming months
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    Compared to those it would get destroyed in both handing and raw performance. The A45 is the new daddy and will stay in that role for a long time.

    Really?? Dont think so...imo.

    All he originally needed to do was turn the traction totally off, different car then.

    As said tho he slates anything Audi. Usual UK weather is quattro weather..
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    He slates anything Audi? Considering he owns an S4 and loves it to pieces?

    The A45 is the king. The CLA45 will also be the king over the S3 saloon. The haldex 4wd system in the A45 is MUCH better than the RS3 too.

    I dont like BMW`s in general either or the massive bumming people give them so i agree in that respect.

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    With similar power\torque & being 4WD, the A45's natural competitor is the RS3 - so why no video slaughter? He's written it off before giving it the chance to show what it can do against the Merc.

    Chris Harris' credibility rating is fast becoming negative IMO.
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    That AMG is obviously not a bad car at all, my issue is if I try to spec one to the same level as my car, its nearly 50k! don't care how good it is, that is MENTAL
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    Lol, contradicting yourselves a wee bit here. As jason states, he owns an S4 and thus far has loved it and believes it to be perfect. He also loved the new RS6, which is also getting nice reviews with that new engine.

    As soon as an rs3 gets a bad mention, owners go ****ing crazy. People slag the 8l s3 off, and its never been regarded as a true 'hot' hatch, i couldnt give a rats ass, i like it, and they can be transformed, as can an rs3.

    This is retarded:
    It's all very well taking cars like the BMW on track and then slating 4WD but in real life (which lets face is is 99.9% of the time the later will always be better

    Where did he say it wouldnt be better 'in real life'

    Im a biased audi fan, but im not naive enough to think that every car they make is the top of its class. Audis s/rs hatches have never been at the top, but we dont buy them for that, we like the brand as a package, some people have differing opinions, get over it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    This is retarded:
    It's all very well taking cars like the BMW on track and then slating 4WD but in real life (which lets face is is 99.9% of the time the later will always be better

    Where did he say it wouldnt be better 'in real life'

    I don't appreciate that at all mate.......

    I have seen a few reviews of his bleating on about being to get the arse end of a BMW round on a corner and 4 wheel drive bogs the car down blah blah blah, in real life this isn't any fun at all, and would probably cause fatalities and is why I would rather a Quattro system.

    Horses for courses and all that but I would just rather a little bit given towards the RS3 which is actually a very good car.

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    the example you've just given... They are hot hatches, hes looking at them from a sporty, driving thrill perspective, not a safety perspective. You are right from a safety perspective, and thats why id choose 4wd, be it the a45 or rs3, (id choose rs3), because i wouldnt be totally confident with rwd if im honest, im not a skilled driver testing cars for a living, he is, which explains his view.
    You have to take these views with a pinch of salt, you wont always read what YOU think about them.

    Thing is most sports cars nowadays are great cars, like you say the rs3 is great, you've owned one. The differences between them are so very slight, and these guys have to be so picky and in depth in there testing and reviews. But one shouldnt interpret things as 'the rs3 is crap, the m135 is amazing'.

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    As Jason.s says he has an S4, mapped so it's as quick as an RS4..
    so no bias against Audi, I quite enjoy his car reviews TBH.
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    He says in the M135 Vs. RS3 video that it's not a real comparison because the BM is in a different price bracket (30,000 Vs. 40,000) to the RS3, so how is it that the Merc costs the same as the Audi, but it's a suitabley compared to the same M135i ...which isn't a true M car don't you know. The RS3 wiped the floor with the BM, but you wouldn't believe that by his summary of the test.

    The guys opinion flips & flops all over the place to try & hide his bias against the RS3. I'm not saying the A45 isn't the better car - I would expect it to be, given that it's brand new! I'd just like some consistency before I could trust the bloke to tell it how it really is.
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cozza McA View Post
    As Jason.s says he has an S4, mapped so it's as quick as an RS4..
    so no bias against Audi, I quite enjoy his car reviews TBH.
    And the important part to your statement there is 'mapped' and dirt cheap. That's why he likes it. The A45 is a decent car but it's not 'the daddy'. The M135i is a performance bargain but as many journo's are finding out including Harris it has its limitations on ride and grip.

    Audi didn't do themselves any favours by equipping the RS3 with Conti's and not telling Harris the best way to get the best out of the RS3 is to turn on the sport control on the ESP. Notice the A45 on PS3's and M135i on PSS's. Run an RS3 on those PSS as MBK will testify or even the PS3's and see how close it is. It is somewhat contradictory as said that in RS3 vs M135i the price couldn't be justified for the RS3 yet a few months later we have an A45 AMG which has pretty much the same power to those RS3's that have been dynoed, similar torque, similar 0-62, similar (albeit seemingly improved) Haldex on the AMG yet the price isn't an issue now?

    I've sat in and been driven in an A45 AMG and it is a great piece of performance kit no doubt, but 'the daddy', not likely. Interior wise it is no better than a 10 year old 8P interior and in some places worse and notice Harris has a dig at both cars for cheap plastics which you don't get on any 8P. trear cabin cramped, boot similar in size to an A1 rather than an A3. Also notice how he drives the AMG and M135 differently so why not do that for the RS3? That's why people reckon he dislikes most Audi's, even his appraisal of the R8 V10+ confirms that.

    And as Artimus rightly points out the RS3 beat the M135i in standing start and lap time and the only way to redeem the M135 was to allow it to max out and pass the RS3 at 140+ mph. But that all gets glossed over.

    I'm not particularly annoyed by Harris and his verdicts, I just hope for slightly more balanced views and would happily give him my car to test as is against those 2 and then see what he makes of it. I personally don't believe for the majority of us there would be much if at all anything in it driving each back to back.
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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by P_G View Post
    And the important part to your statement there is 'mapped' and dirt cheap. That's why he likes it.
    That is exactly his viewpoint,he is very money orientated I think

  18. #17
    MBK
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    Quite an amusing read this thread so far, all I need is some popcorn. Harris would probably love it.

    Chris Harris is a great motoring journo in my opinion, I liked it when he joined the failed Drivers Republic and later evo. Even after all he's said about the RS3, new RS4 or whatever that stands, he's a good entertaining journo. He's up there with the best like Dickie Meaden and nowadays 'Lord' Henry of Catchpole and Jethro Bovingdon - all of them quick enough to have a valued opinion IMO.

    Lets remember though he works for a website (which like a certain person in Harry Potter should not be named) where the users worship their rear wheel drive stuff, no doubt one of the reasons he was employed there. Go there and express any liking for Audi and you will truly experience a torrent of biased and mostly press informed hatred - and that's just from the ones old enough to have a driving license, when the school holidays are on it truly become amusing/abusive. What amuses me most is that for a site with so many driving gods so few own a camera - you know you'd think if they were even halfway to any good behind the wheel they'd want to show off (like me , 98K YouTube hits can't be wrong can they - admittedly I now regret passing up first refusal on fronting Gangnam Style now but that's life gotta roll with the punches).

    Even more surprising is having met many of the people on there during my RWD days (am I allowed to admit that on here lol) they were just normal geezers like the rest of us. Once you own a FWD or sin of all sins a AWD car you grow horns and become the devil incarnate. The evo forum is no different just last week I was being told by someone who admitted they had never owned an RS3, Evo or STi that the RS3 was inferior to both...how strange I've owned all 3 and I know which is the best by a very long margin and it's not Japanese... It's pure comedy you couldn't make it up but that's we need and like our tribes.

    You probably all know I love the RS3, I know it's the best car I've owned, show it a wet stretch of Welsh road an it is devastatingly fast, everywhere. On a wet track day it was peerless. The only thing I couldn't do was go sideways...oh wait but that's a good thing! Oh and the AMG45 evo give that 4 stars just like the RS3 and the M135i gets the full 5 - neatly forgetting last month they slammed the very same M135i for being all over the place on a wet track.

    But then what do I know, I still like Top Gear, think Richard Porter is funny and love it when JC himself says something that sets off the daily fail readers who don't realise it's all an act. Which, I think, brings us neatly back to Mr Harris.
    Last edited by MBK; 18th July 2013 at 21:22.
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  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artimus View Post
    He says in the M135 Vs. RS3 video that it's not a real comparison because the BM is in a different price bracket (30,000 Vs. 40,000) to the RS3, so how is it that the Merc costs the same as the Audi, but it's a suitabley compared to the same M135i
    you're missing the point of the road test. Hes addressing the question 'is the more expensive slightly better on paper car worth the extra cash', not comparing them as though they are equal despite the price difference, he clarifies that at the end.

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    Last time I sat in a 1 series BM I thought it was a 2 seater, the car as a whole is very poor value full stop. Then there is the cabin, yuck, BM's suck for interior styling, the car would have to be new M5 territory for me to over look that.

    The new AMG is growing on me and is obviously a nice bit of kit, but without an amazing discount, overpriced.

    Car reviews should never be taken too seriously, they're one mans opinion afterall...


    I love my RS3, its actually grown on my a lot over the last 6k miles I've put on it, initially I thought it was good but nothing special, but as you get to know it and drive it, it does become more and more capable, Chris Harris talks about the RS3 like he has driven it for an afternoon, didn't push S button, didn't push ESP button and tried to drive it like a rear wheeled car... all of that = FAIL
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    MBK
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    Even funnier when Mr Harris did depress the S button during a test he said the ride became unbearably harsh

    Do you think the AMG45, after the initial few are sold at full price, might have been priced for an 11.5% 'dealer contribution' (in other words discount!) on the Agility schemes just like the C63 AMG? People do love the idea of a big discount and that would put the price very close to the S3 and 135.

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    The guy I use to help source cars seems to think 12months time and they will have big discounts... that may well make them a viable option, but in his words, you would have to brainless to buy an A45 AMG at the moment or have money to burn, as you will get little or nothing off them
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    some C63 AMGs had 8k contribution I kid u not
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  24. #23
    MBK
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    I can believe that with the C63 we were offered an incredible deal at the time of buying the RS3. The sales woman said even with their massive contribution and a decent deposit from us we would see nothing back above the 'Future Value' figure and some had been handed back because the future value offered was actually higher than the book value at the time. That is a big loss in 3 years.

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    you're missing the point of the road test. Hes addressing the question 'is the more expensive slightly better on paper car worth the extra cash', not comparing them as though they are equal despite the price difference, he clarifies that at the end.
    so you'd think he'd compare like for like before dismissing the RS3 out of hand, No? I fail to see how the RWD M135 can be fairly compared to a 4WD of greater cost & expect the results of said test to be taken as definitive. I'd go as far as say that until someone pits the AMG against the RS3, its real world capabilities will remain an unknown for those that don't drive both cars.

    He's effectively comparing Apples to Pears, The Audi set the point to point hot hatch benchmark, and I suspect he'd have to admit that, driven with the same gusto on UK roads, the RS3 is every bit as quick as the Mercedes he keeps praising for its speed.

    FWIW and maybe with a little bias of my own thrown in for good measure: I much prefer the look of the 8P Sportback to the 8V! The 8V tech in an 8P body would be ideal. The BMW is pig ugly & the Mercedes looks dated already... which is bound to hit resale values.
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    MBK
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    Just had a chance to watch the Harris video gilford is referring to:

    "If you're in a C63 or M3 on any kind of B road in the UK, don't even attempt to stay with an A45, because you will fall off" - now that is a very funny and smart line in a film like this.

    I really have to ask why he thinks an RS3 wouldn't do exactly the same, if not be a little further down the road from the AMG, it makes no sense. I know this, me in an RS3 v me in a C63 and I wouldn't know which way the RS3 went.

    Oddly all the things he likes about the A45 apply equally to the RS3:

    "It feels like an Evo or STi (but with up market branding)" - that's exactly what an RS3 feels like, I often call mine my Impreza for grown ups.

    "It's hard riding rather than stiff" - again same would apply, the RS3 is a hard ride but not the back breaking ride of say a Megane 265 Cup.

    "You get in this car and think this is fast, the way it covers the ground is astonishing" - all descriptions I and many passengers have applied to the RS3. I've seen no figures that suggest the AMG is faster than the RS3.

    "It makes a great sound on the upshift" - getting boring now I know, we've had this feature for 2 years and 5 cylinders sound much better than 4.

    As for the BMW apparently it's better because it can "do little squiggles out of corners" I have never seen any BMW perform such a thing on the road and I drive on some quite deserted roads, but if all the BMW's near where you live do, let me know. In the midst of him BuMWfest eulogy he does admit the BMW isn't great on bumpy roads and that if you want to be fast and safe in the winter you should choose the AMG (or indeed an RS3...!)

    Anyway enough of that to the track, the bloody BMW was cheating again - Michelin Pilot Super Sports on the BMW vs Michelin Pilot Sport 3's on the AMG - and the AMG was still faster.

    And on that note I reserve my final and for Mr Harris because in my R26.R with just 230bhp on Toyo R888s, I beat both those times by half a second, which is a good gain on such a tiny track. Oh and here is the video evidence to prove it too.



    As for the RS3 on Michelin Pilot Super Sports - I have lapped Llandow in under 46 seconds but as some of you know my Go Pro was broken so for a couple of weeks you'll have to take my word for that. So I'll suggest an amendment to his claims - he didn't take an RS3 because it would have slaughtered them like in his previous video vs the M135i where he had to admit for all he hated about the RS3 it was over 1.1s faster than the M135i when lap times were revealed - and the RS3 was on the standard Conti's.

    So now we know I'm faster than Harris does that make my view more valid than his!

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    Lol, contradicting yourselves a wee bit here. As jason states, he owns an S4 and thus far has loved it and believes it to be perfect. He also loved the new RS6, which is also getting nice reviews with that new engine.

    As soon as an rs3 gets a bad mention, owners go ****ing crazy. People slag the 8l s3 off, and its never been regarded as a true 'hot' hatch, i couldnt give a rats ass, i like it, and they can be transformed, as can an rs3.

    This is retarded:
    It's all very well taking cars like the BMW on track and then slating 4WD but in real life (which lets face is is 99.9% of the time the later will always be better

    Where did he say it wouldnt be better 'in real life'

    Im a biased audi fan, but im not naive enough to think that every car they make is the top of its class. Audis s/rs hatches have never been at the top, but we dont buy them for that, we like the brand as a package, some people have differing opinions, get over it.
    I'm sure he did a 180 on the RS6 didn't he? I read on this other notorious forum that he hates all RS's, although I haven't witnessed that myself.

    Likewise, I'm Audi through & through, but I have to admit after having them for a lot of years now, the build quality isn't what it used to be. (Although Merc IMO are a step behind Audi too)

    The bottom line is, even the RS's are a compromise between comfort & handling, but they do make a superb GT car!
    ...... Now this one's MUCH better!...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.s View Post
    Compared to those it would get destroyed in both handing and raw performance. The A45 is the new daddy and will stay in that role for a long time.
    I dont know the rs3 0-100mph performance figures, but I do know the AMG takes over a second longer to get there than a stock manual TTRS.

    Anyway I disagree that on the road the rs3 would have been slaughtered, lets not forget on the track it beat the m135i which had semi trackday tyres, and the racetrack is the rs3's weakest environment, whilst cross country, like in this video, is its strongest
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    I wanna see an rs3 v cla45 amg ana45 amg drag video, and yer that BMW m135i was lost until 140 mph lol , !

    I'm keen on a cla45 amg ,just wondering what these perform like given the bigger shape and slightly heavier build compared to my lovely rs3 and the a45 amg.

    dont know if its true but Im sure I read that the 2 versions are untunable maybe bulls'@!
    Coming soon the new Audi RS3.... see it attached to your rear bumper on the Motorway no matter how fast you go!

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    Quote Originally Posted by superkarl View Post
    People slag the 8l s3 off, and its never been regarded as a true 'hot' hatch, i couldnt give a rats ass, i like it, and they can be transformed, as can an rs3.
    Back in May 1999 I'm pretty sure the general public would have considered the 8L S3 as a 'hot' hatch. I mean nothing else was out at the time that could really challenge it in the hatchback market could it? (other than a lancia delta but that was only LHD).

    Totally agree though that the AMG45 should have been matched against the RS3....

    Mercedes knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they were producing the AMG45...
    A 300+bhp car, sub 5 second 0-60, 5 doors only, latest haldex 4wd system and a premium badge to go with it.....wonder where they got that idea from!?? lol

    The AMG division has totally lined the RS3 up in it's sights with this car, so a back to back test definitely should have been done to see if Mercedes managed to succeed in beating Audi, who manufactured a car that's been out for 2 years and has designs and technology that are even older.
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    35mpg on the RS3 with the APR Stage I map too...and 0-60 in 3.7s not that that will interest anyone I'm sure

  33. #32
    S.
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    just to share with you this guys amg 2.0 t engine is running 360bhp on 1,8 bar boost. that sort of power runs s3 on 1.6 bar boost. doubt there's much more to squeeze out with a remap. so as much as i love the looks and performance of a45 amg i think i would go for the rs3 :D
    Kelza and monkeyboy_marcus like this.
    s3 Ibis White ... Build Thread

    / Black Grill / FbMfSw / Sunroof / Hill Hold / Armrest / Black Leather-Alcantara interior / Rear Parking Sensors / Heated Seats / Folding Mirrors / Cruise / Rns-e mk2 // ttrs-Brembo Brakes / 12mm spacers / Forge Short + Side Shift / 42dd's / ITG CAI / GfB DV+ / Forge Catch Can / Milltek TBE / Forge Twin IC/ Autotech HpFp / H&R ARB's / WALK / KW v3's / RS4 fpr / Loba&Sachs clutch / Revo Stage 2+ / ...


  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    just to share with you this guys amg 2.0 t engine is running 360bhp on 1,8 bar boost. that sort of power runs s3 on 1.6 bar boost. doubt there's much more to squeeze out with a remap. so as much as i love the looks and performance of a45 amg i think i would go for the rs3 :D
    Unless a Black Series of the A45 AMG is on the cards

    Mercedes A45 AMG Black Series spied | Auto Express

    I dread to think how much it will cost though !
    Audi RS3 in Daytona Grey, 7sp S-Tronic, Sept 2012

  35. #34
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    yeah, but the price of a45 amg black series could be silly as you have said for a 40bhp increase.
    s3 Ibis White ... Build Thread

    / Black Grill / FbMfSw / Sunroof / Hill Hold / Armrest / Black Leather-Alcantara interior / Rear Parking Sensors / Heated Seats / Folding Mirrors / Cruise / Rns-e mk2 // ttrs-Brembo Brakes / 12mm spacers / Forge Short + Side Shift / 42dd's / ITG CAI / GfB DV+ / Forge Catch Can / Milltek TBE / Forge Twin IC/ Autotech HpFp / H&R ARB's / WALK / KW v3's / RS4 fpr / Loba&Sachs clutch / Revo Stage 2+ / ...


 

 

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