You've guessed it !! The return of brake squeal AFTER Audi fix.

[T-800]

Day 5, and after the 300 mile drive to Cornwall, it's back !

Arrived last night and as I was pulling up to junctions in some of these narrow high sided country lanes the damned thing started squealing its t*ts off, slightly more embarrassing as when we arrived at the place we are staying it sounded bad, people weren't expecting that sort of noise from such a quality car I bet !!!!

On the plus side 330 miles on a tank of super is better than the previous S3

 

[R34nel]

I can help you fix your brake troubles! all you need to do is swap the car with my s3 ;-)

 

[MBK]

Time to fit John's shims for a few ££ then. I was happy to seek out my own fix and get on with enjoying the car - by the time they eventually fix this a lot of people will have moved on to the next car anyway!

Somebody at Audi must be in a whole heap of trouble with all that money spent for no result!

 

[T-800]

yes I bet there will be some head scratching going on !!

And I don't think the new set up has as much stopping power (have done nearly 500 miles on them so they should be bedded in)

Maybe Audi should open a Brake squeal centre in Stafford, it'd save them some money Eh John ?

 

[45bvtc]

Thanks to JonnyG for the lead to following explanation from Audi:

Audi has responded to technical problems with the brakes at the top models Audi RS3 and TT RS offers a free brake replacement on a modified brake system.

When customers complain about delayed braking in the wet, jerking, loud squeaks and high wear half years, the manufacturer has redesigned the brake system on both models. Stephan Reil, Head of Development at quattro GmbH in Neckarsulm, where RS3 and TT RS will be built, and Florian Heuberger, Head of Technology at Audi service, announced in Auto Motor und Sport that the holders of the affected vehicles can replace the brakes for free. Affected up to 5,700 models of type RS3 from model year 2011 and 6100 TT RS from model year 2010.

Exchange of parts availability from March "All customers will be helped - free," assured Quattro Manager Reil against auto motor und sport. Modified Audi has the caliper and the pads to eliminate squeaks and most frequently occurring primarily at low speed when braking. The delay in braking effect when wet Audi wants to get through a software update in the handle. "One since June 2012 and employed in the service aufspielbares ESP update increases the frequency, the brake pads are always easily applied to the wheels with the after turning on the windshield wiper in order to displace splash," said Reil, head of development at Quattro. To reduce the thermal load on the RS3-brake, an air permeable pinhole is easy on since June 2012 right in the front apron installed, which is also upgradeable.

Into series production, the changes in the coming weeks will also be accepted. However, the exchange in the workshops could "depending on the availability of parts at least until the end of March or even longer extend" estimates Heuberger. No action lies against the Audi wear. "According to our specifications, the brake pads last about 30,000 kilometers the discs reach double the mileage -. Provided proper treatment"

 

[45bvtc]

yes I bet there will be some head scratching going on !!

And I don't think the new set up has as much stopping power (have done nearly 500 miles on them so they should be bedded in)

Maybe Audi should open a Brake squeal centre in Stafford, it'd save them some money Eh John ?

 

[NHN]

Well that sucks, its amazing how much money is being thrown at these 2 chassis, guess they cant have the RS badge tarnished as such, let us know how you get in.

 

[monkeyboy_marcus]

Really gutted for those who have had the brake squeal return. Not the case for me so far though, touch wood, after >2k miles.

Not impressed with the new pad/disc stopping power though, or the amount of brake dust...

 

[45bvtc]

Really gutted for those who have had the brake squeal return. Not the case for me so far though, touch wood, after >2k miles.

Not impressed with the new pad/disc stopping power though, or the amount of brake dust...

So would you recommend me to upgrade, Marcus?

My 'original' brakes are 100% perfect for me: no brake squeal at all with my self-adhesive anti-squeal shims added to the original brake pads, acceptable brake dust, great pedal, and no delay in wet braking…

If you could go back to the pre-upgrade set-up, would you?

 

[45bvtc]

BUT WHY are the BRAKE issue reports different?

With the original brakes:
Some report brake squeal and some don't
Some report brake-vibration and some don't
Some report wet braking delay and some don't

And with this NEW brake upgrade:
Some report brake squeal and some don't
Some report a long pedal and some don't
Some report better braking while others some report much poorer braking
Some report excessive brake dust and some don't

What is it with this particular braking system (RS3 and TTRS) that is causing such inconsistency being reported by owners for whom the RS3 and/or TTRS is most probably not their first experience of a high performance road car…

 

[S3 AD]

For me its been:
With the original brakes:
Some report brake squeal and some don't - Yes it was awful
Some report brake-vibration and some don't - never felt this
Some report wet braking delay and some don't - never experienced this

And with this NEW brake upgrade:
Some report brake squeal and some don't - has not come back... yet
Some report a long pedal and some don't - Pedal was longer but either I have got used to it or its come back to normal after bedding in
Some report better braking while others some report much poorer braking - I dont think the brakes are any worse but to get the same stopping power you do need a firmer push on the pedal
Some report excessive brake dust and some don't - definatly more dust with the new set up.

All the incoinsistances are very strange, could it be to do with how they are bedded in?

 

[klauster]

i think people arent driving the car properly, if you are getting vibration its probaly becuase you sit in traffic with your foot on the brake and transfer pads to discs.

Touch wood, my car has been faultless since the brake fix apart from some condensation in the rear light cluster which was a warranty swap out.

 

[T-800]

Emailed Audi this morning as yet no response (probably scratching their heads or hiding maybe)

Squeal is the same as before but now with a definite loss in braking power, I cannot believe a four piston Caliper set up is no where near as good as the one on my previous S3, now I could push on in that car with NO stopping worries !!

And its not just me, after wife came back in it and I asked her what she liked about the RS3, she said 1. God its fast !!!! 2. Brakes were rubbish compared to the S3 !!! Oh Dear I must admit I agree they do not inspire confidence for such a powerful car.

 

[P_G]

BUT WHY are the BRAKE issue reports different?

Simple answer is the way different drivers drive their cars. Everything from frequency of usage, to whether they sit at lights with foot on brake in gear, engine braking, how often they really use them as opposed to light braking, cooling period, cleaning etc etc. There are as many variables as suppoosed issues out there.

 

[monkeyboy_marcus]

So would you recommend me to upgrade, Marcus?

My 'original' brakes are 100% perfect for me: no brake squeal at all with my self-adhesive anti-squeal shims added to the original brake pads, acceptable brake dust, great pedal, and no delay in wet braking…

If you could go back to the pre-upgrade set-up, would you?

For you John, I'd recommend that you stick with what works and that seems to be the original set-up with your personally applied fix. Although I had the same fix applied this was done by an Audi dealership FOC and was only circa 85% effective - maybe not applied with the same degree of care and attention...

I wouldn't revert to the pre-fix squealing brake set-up because that was intolerable and I hated driving the car when the squeal was on. However, the current brakes are really not very effective, especially in the context of this being an RS model and I'm finding this more as they wear in/or I drive the car more aggresively. At present the stopping power of the brakes does not seem equal to the power of the engine...

An upgrade may be the answer but I resent the idea of having to spank a couple of grand just to get the effective/squeal free brakes that should be as standard.

 

[monkeyboy_marcus]

For me its been:
With the original brakes:
Some report brake squeal and some don't - Yes it was awful
YES HAD THIS BAD
Some report brake-vibration and some don't - never felt this
NOPE - JUST SOME WHEEL VIBRATION DUE TO BALANCING ISSUES
Some report wet braking delay and some don't - never experienced this
YES HAD THIS BAD

And with this NEW brake upgrade:
Some report brake squeal and some don't - has not come back... yet
NOPE, NOT EVEN A HINT
Some report a long pedal and some don't - Pedal was longer but either I have got used to it or its come back to normal after bedding in
GOT USED TO IT, NOT MUCH OF AN ISSUE
Some report better braking while others some report much poorer braking - I dont think the brakes are any worse but to get the same stopping power you do need a firmer push on the pedal
HMM, SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING BUT WHEN I'VE HAD TO PUSH HARDED IT HAS OFTEN RESULTED IN THE ABS KICKING IN, WHICH WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT'S NOT JUST ALL ABOUT THE PRESSURE BEING APPLIED
Some report excessive brake dust and some don't - definatly more dust with the new set up.
YEP, TOTALLY CAKED THE THREE WHEELS NOT TREATED WITH C5

 

[monkeyboy_marcus]

Anyone tried these replacement pads Brembo Sport Front Pad Set [07.B314.51] | RS3 Brakes | APS and would they be a direct swap for the new warranty replaced pads?

 

[45bvtc]

More REVELATIONS…

I believe the brake pad for the RS3 and TTRS have changed 3-times and are denoted by the suffix in the Audi Part Number, like so:

1) For the 'early' brake pad (TTRS most likely): 8J0 615 115 N (20S)

2) For the later brake pad (a 2011 build RS3, as mine) is: 8J0 615 115 R (20S)

3) And for the current 2013 'upgrade' the numbers are: 8J0 615 115 S (20S) for the right-hand pad and 8J0 615 116 K (20S) for the left-hand pad… that's RIGHT, the pads are now handed/directional within the brake caliper.

PAGID? INTERESTINGLY the 2011 brake pad (as in 2) above) has Audi (part) reference numbers, Audi logo, and Brembo logo all painted on the backplate of the brake pad

BUT of greater interest are the following characters 'engraved' into the backplate: PAGID AQ 04

So it's an Audi brake pad, supplied by BREMBO, with PAGID friction material…

 

[HullRs3]

So far mine have been ok since being fixed. Went out on a drive to the Ilkley Moors area Sunday and afterwards I was surprised my brakes still behaved admirable despite all the braking for cyclists, walkers and slow moving vehicles.
I have not noticed any brake dust build up as yet or had any juddering issues, or pedal stiffness.

 

[T-800]

UPDATE:

Well i have spoken to a few people regarding the lack of 'bite' from the new brake setup, one of them a Ex-Merc mechanic and the other a company called K300 in Stockport who are agents for Pagid (thanks John) and they recommended going out in the RS3 find a quiet stretch of road and perform some sharp braking to properly bed in the new set-up and de-glaze the pads, so I've performed this now a couple of times and have to say the 'Bite' is a lot better now !! Its a shame Audi can't give this sort of advise about their own cars !! but as John said they don't make these anymore so aren't too bothered about us !!

The squeal is still there but not as much as prior to the update, but I can cure that by applying the 3M shims and Ceratec (Thanks John)

So for now I'm basically going to see how this goes and hope that's the last of it.

 

[45bvtc]

PAGID Guidance On Bedding In Procedure:

Geometric Alignment Of Pad Surface To Disc Surface (basic bedding in)

4-6 brake applications with medium pedal pressure from approx 90mph to 50mph, not allowing wheels to lock. (No brake dragging)

Allow for a distance of 300 - 400metres between brake applications for a cooling period.

Pads should not reach temperatures above 400°C during the initial bedding in.

Check that the pad surfaces have at least 80% contact with the disc before allowing more heat into the pad surface.

Immediately followed by: Bedding In At High Speed

1-brake application with medium to high pedal pressure from approx 110mph (HELLO!!!) to 50mph without allowing the wheels to lock.

Allow 3-4 recovery brake applications with a light pedal pressure.

Repeat high speed applications including recovery applications another 2-3 times.

Allow a cooling off distance of 500 metres between high speed applications.

 

[T-800]

Interestingly the guy at K300 (pagid) also said that the squeal can come from new pads that are not bedded in properly as they can glaze over, and he described the procedure as listed above in John's post would get rid of any Glaze, therefore returning better stopping power.

 

[CarrG]

Other owners have reported Audi bed the brakes in for them.

Thats why I always say "How can Audi tech's bed brakes in??".

They are not allowed over 70mph.

Hope you enjoy your new brakes now.

 

[JonnyG]

Not had any problems with my new brakes yet ... no sign of a squeal at all :icon_thumright:

I guess the cold dry Winter months will be the acid test for them.

Looks like someone kept a set of old pads :-

Audi Rs3 TTrs Brembo Calipers Discs And Pads Big brake Conversion! Front! | eBay

 

[T-800]

I wonder if that guy works for Audi ? Naughty naughty !! I thought all defective brake componants were to go back to Germany ha ha !