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  • 2 Post By Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.

Thread: 2.5TFSI remap

  1. #1
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    2.5TFSI remap

    Love the power in my tuned S3 so this got me thinking instead of spending more on it I could save and get a TTRS or RS3 and have it tuned. Has anyone else gone from a 380bhp S3 TFSi to 2.5TFSi? Has anyone has theirs remapped. I would most likely take it to these guys who are local to me and have done my old 1.8T S3 and also the current TFSi S3. Here is a youtube video of one they done 408bhp just with a map Audi RS3 2.5TFSi DSG ECU Remap Stage 1 fr-rtuning MAHA Dyno Rolling Road - YouTube
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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  3. #2
    P_G
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    Their gains don not appear to be that great TBH, especially if their baseline is 360bhp. As much as they gain approx. 410bhp (+60 bhp) they are some 50 to 90 NM down on any of REVO / MRC / APR maps and more in the Superchips league. Also what does the map have, warranty, backclick program, switchable, free reflash if Audi update overwrites?

    Ultimately you pay for what you get. I personally would have more confidence in a firm that have significant demonstrable experience of tuning the 2.5 TFSi engine in TT-RS's and RS3's like the three I mention have, you may have a different view.

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    their power gain is certainly up there with the big marketing companies you say. I've used revo before on my S3 2.0TFSi and didn't like it and switched to FR&RTuning. Also if you look at some of the revo 2.5TFSI reviews lots are going into limp mode because of high EGTs. As for the torque the companies you mention show TTRS with manual boxes this is DSG which limits the torque. You mentioned superchips one of my mates has a astra VXR that was using the Bluefin stage3 software and when dynod at fr&rtuning it was rubbish straight away he asked for them to do a new map which they did more power more torque straight away. And for the price some others charge I not convinced its worth it. Others ive no experience with but are too far from me anyway if there was problems id have to drive and maybe leave the car with them for a few days
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

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    P_G I see you have mentioned " warranty "....is out there companies that does actually offer it? And what sort of warranty are we talking about ? I have used Revo in the past and the dealer never mentioned any warranty, he did tell me that in the event that VW wiped the map off the ECU, he would remap it again free of charge.

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    klauster's Avatar
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    Only Superchips offer a warranty from what I've read
    www.SubZerosystems.co.uk - IT Consultancy

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    klauster's Avatar
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    I'd rather travel to MRC who have a proven track record tuning Audis and RS cars than risk going to some tin pot local company, it's a 40k car, FR tuning are local to me but they won't be seeing mine
    www.SubZerosystems.co.uk - IT Consultancy

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    Vito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klauster View Post
    Only Superchips offer a warranty from what I've read
    For example: if I have my car mapped by Superchips and end up with a blown up turbo or whatever, does the warranty cover this?

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    klauster's Avatar
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    I spoke to them and basically, if Audi won't cover it Superchips will but I have no idea how it would work
    www.SubZerosystems.co.uk - IT Consultancy

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    P_G
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3AMK20VT View Post
    their power gain is certainly up there with the big marketing companies you say. I've used revo before on my S3 2.0TFSi and didn't like it and switched to FR&RTuning. Also if you look at some of the revo 2.5TFSI reviews lots are going into limp mode because of high EGTs. As for the torque the companies you mention show TTRS with manual boxes this is DSG which limits the torque. You mentioned superchips one of my mates has a astra VXR that was using the Bluefin stage3 software and when dynod at fr&rtuning it was rubbish straight away he asked for them to do a new map which they did more power more torque straight away. And for the price some others charge I not convinced its worth it. Others ive no experience with but are too far from me anyway if there was problems id have to drive and maybe leave the car with them for a few days
    FR&R aren't producing the same gains though because they are working from a 360bhp baseline and not 340-350 which most 2.5TFSI's make at MRC, APR, REVO, MTM, DMS etc so they are 10+bhp down and some 50-90NM down as well. s-tronic IIRC is good for some 650NM standard saftey margin and those mapping the s-tronic boxes can take this to 700+NM IIRC for those working the Loba 500 hybrid turbo development.

    Personally I'm not keen on REVO because of the EGT issues, the maps are quite old hat, MRC, APR and MTM are at the forefront. As for warranty, MTM, Sportec, Superchips are the only three I know to give warranties that says if the engine muches as a consequence of their map they'll cover it but how easy that will be who knows.

    I would rather pay for a company with demonstrable history of mapping the engine / car I want mapped and have references to boot. Also looking for a firm that will map both box and engine.

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    Looked at APR too if you look closer at their site they added 10% to their figures for drivertrain loss. So you can untick that box. I sent an quick email to FR&R about the torque and they said because its measured little late the torque figues are down and if measured on 4wd dyno or if they had little more time with the car they would be able to measure torque lower down the rev range and would give a much higher measurement. Important think is how smooth and how well the torque is held.

    ive used them few times already and have no doubt about them. As for talking about 40k and where you take your car your starting to sound like you got your head too far up your ..

  12. #11
    P_G
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    Your comment about 'you can untick that box' shows just about as much complacency as you are acusing Klauster of. You can't untick it because you don't know what their rolling road measurement parameters are. TBH and having read FR&R's site and related info. they appear to have tuned one RS3 and show nothing of the work they have done, how may runs has it done what does a customer get etc and they are not synonymous on the scene of 2.5TFSI tuning even if they have the gear to unlock M/EDC17 ECU's. Plus there is no price on there to start with.

    I'm not taking anyone's figures for granted and don't have any view that one at this time is better then the other but as much as you know FR&R I don't and from what I have seen they don't give me confidence so feel free to take your money there and use them and I'll use a company that has significant history in turning VAG / Audi cars if their product satisfies what I am looking for.

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    To be fair i wasnt saying take your car to these guys i mentioned them as there are one that i have used and will use again. Price is £500+VAT you can see on online shop. My question was how a slightly modded rs3 would compare to my current 380bhp S3. Seen videos that happend to be revo tuned 2.5tfsi being beaten by a a tuned S3 think that was revo too. Now am not after things like one extra cyclinder more power etc more real life experiences
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

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    2.5tfsi uses me9 ecu not med17 but still needs to be removed from car
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

  15. #14
    P_G
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    Just what I quoted from FR&R's website

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    Quote Originally Posted by P_G View Post
    Just what I quoted from FR&R's website
    clearly says me9 on the listing Audi RS3 2.5TFSI Remap, ECU Remap - FR&R Tuning| MAHA Dyno Rolling Road Tuning| Stage 1, 2 & 3 Engine Performance Upgrades - (Powered by CubeCart)
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

  17. #16
    P_G
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    Like said, I pressed Ctrl C and then Ctrl V taking the info from their page.

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    did some more research on the MRC maps and people who have them lots of them report misfire and are unhappy with it. Overpirced and still with problems now do you see what i mean about havinbg problems and having to travel back to the tuner with a misfiring car with the possibility of leaving it with them for a few days.
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

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    P_G
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    How many is lots, what is causing the misfire and is this the reason behind all misfiring? What have MRC done to remedy the issue when broached?

    It's all a bit wooly in your quest to seemingly extol the virtues of FR&R who have by all acounts have mapped one car. I'm not into promoting one mapper over another and am doing my own research to satisfy what I am looking for.

    Cold hard facts here only please, comments like that are why it is so hard to make an informed decision in the first place with all the misinformation around.

  20. #19
    klauster's Avatar
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    I spoke to MRC this morning regarding remapping my car. I am now 'officially' saving. They have mapped a few RS3s now... and will do a thorough health check of the car before even attempting a remap as these cars are sensitive to fuelling etc... I just cant decide whether to do the intercooler first or not
    www.SubZerosystems.co.uk - IT Consultancy

  21. #20
    P_G
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    Did you ask them about the misfire issues on their mapped 2.5 TFSi cars Klauster? Seemingly a common problem?

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    Im not trying to say one tuner is better than others just saying its a new car with a complicated ecu so problems may happen and if they do I dont fancy driving out of my way to get it fixed rather I'd stay local atleast i can go back anytime. Just as your backing MRC im backing my local tuner. APR graphs and figures are based on their hub dyno in the states and then they add 10% to it all so in reality mean nothing. A health check is simple its what would be done any way. Stick it on dyno make a few logs make sure its boosting, fueling and timing all ok and making the power as it should, so enough of the sales talk. You can logs these things yourself with vagcom and your road logs would be better than dyno logs any day. Ive been recommended an intercooler as a must as these run very hot after a few runs on a dyno. EGTs get skyhigh too nearly 1000oC so maybe WMI would be a more cost effective mod.
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

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    misfire seems to be on the TTRS cars not so much on the RS3 maybe down to the ecu software version. 2500-3000rpm at full throttle
    Audi S3 2.0TFSI.. Milltek Turbo-Back Non-Res, ITG maxogen, Forge DV, KMD HPFP internals, Custom FR&RTuning Software

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    Audi S3 1.8T with the following mods: Milltek Cat Back Non Res exhaust, with THS Decat, Induction kit , Forge 007P Valve and Custom FR-RTuning Stage 2 Software..

  24. #23
    klauster's Avatar
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    the misfire issues (not that there are loads of them) are across all remaps, and seem to be down to the spark plugs from what I have read, simple enough to sort that with a new set
    www.SubZerosystems.co.uk - IT Consultancy

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3AMK20VT View Post
    Im not trying to say one tuner is better than others just saying its a new car with a complicated ecu so problems may happen and if they do I dont fancy driving out of my way to get it fixed rather I'd stay local atleast i can go back anytime. Just as your backing MRC im backing my local tuner. APR graphs and figures are based on their hub dyno in the states and then they add 10% to it all so in reality mean nothing. A health check is simple its what would be done any way. Stick it on dyno make a few logs make sure its boosting, fueling and timing all ok and making the power as it should, so enough of the sales talk. You can logs these things yourself with vagcom and your road logs would be better than dyno logs any day. Ive been recommended an intercooler as a must as these run very hot after a few runs on a dyno. EGTs get skyhigh too nearly 1000oC so maybe WMI would be a more cost effective mod.
    But I am not backing MRC, I'm doing my due diligence on all and selecting the best map as said. MRC are one of those that has the better VAG reputation and demonstrable history of mapping this engine but that's not to say I'll be using them.

  26. #25
    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.'s Avatar
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    Hi Gents,

    the ECU on these car is technically an MED9. What makes it an MED9 is the processor it uses. However, it is totally unlike the MED9 found in the 2.0 TFSI cars, the software structure is different - really quite an oddball.

    The reason the ECU has to be taken out when first tuned is there is actually map data stored in the processor as well as the flash memory. It's impossible to access the processor through OBD. This is really quite unusual, and must have been done by Audi purely to stop people tuning them.

    It's really quite a cheeky and clever system, because you don't know there is a problem until after a few days of being mapped the car appears to go back to standard! A few companies fell foul of this initially but it wasn't really their fault as it's pretty unique to this very small volume ECU.

    Thanks, Rick
    Real Thing and Chris-32T like this.
    Unicorn Motor Developments. Bespoke Calibration and Remapping Services
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. View Post
    Hi Gents,

    the ECU on these car is technically an MED9. What makes it an MED9 is the processor it uses. However, it is totally unlike the MED9 found in the 2.0 TFSI cars, the software structure is different - really quite an oddball.

    The reason the ECU has to be taken out when first tuned is there is actually map data stored in the processor as well as the flash memory. It's impossible to access the processor through OBD. This is really quite unusual, and must have been done by Audi purely to stop people tuning them.

    It's really quite a cheeky and clever system, because you don't know there is a problem until after a few days of being mapped the car appears to go back to standard! A few companies fell foul of this initially but it wasn't really their fault as it's pretty unique to this very small volume ECU.

    Thanks, Rick
    Interesting information thanks think manufactures will all try and go down a similar route over time so it will be down to us the owners whether with want to invalidate our warranties or not.

 

 

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