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  1. #1
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    Drivers without insurance

    I read last night that 1.6 million drivers in the UK have no insurance. I find that shocking!

    This morning BBC have said 1 in 5 17 to 20 year olds are without insurance.

    This particularly gets me riled. My first insurance premium on a 1.0 Fiesta was 2060 plus interest. The second year I paid out over a grand. The third year I got a CTR and paid about the same. So in all I have paid out 6-7000 until now.

    BUT if my car were to be written off by one of these drivers I would have to claim from my own insurance. I wouldn't lose some no claims as I pay to protect it but I would still have to pay an excess. I wouldn't get enough money to replace my car as it is. All the extras and mods I got on the car would be lost (apart from a few that may be salvaged). And my insurance premiums from then on would be higher.

    How unfair is that? And how to these criminals get away with it? And why are 1 in 5 parents allowing their kids to drive without insurance?!
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  3. #2
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    It's a massive problem Leon, I kinda feel for the kids and the high premiums but it's a classic case of the minority wrecking it for the majority. If they were to be sensible for the first few years, learn the craft of driving in sensible cars then overall the level of claims for that age group would fall and eventually so would the costs.

    As it is you get these nippers who buy a sh1tter and then ram raid Halfrauds to bolt all sort of sh1te onto it before filling the thing with a stereo so loud they couldn't possibly concentrate on driving. I wonder how many declare their mods??

    Couple of guys I work with have a novel approach, one qualified as a reverend via a USA website, this drastically reduces his premiums. The other went for an off the wall car, a V6 Laguna Auto, which oddly also gave him a lesser premium.
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  4. #3
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    Perhaps some sort of power limit would help sort the problem. I know when I had that 1.0 if I would have had more power I would have crashed it for sure. That first year was an eye opener!

    50Bhp for the first 2 years of driving?!
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  5. #4
    NHN
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    That could be a good idea power limitation for few years, but then we'd get all these idiots spouting freedom/rights etc saying its communistic because we're locking down the use of something, you cant win either way you go. good idea though.

    But also makes you wonder why we have cars that can do 200mph on roads that at max are allowed to do 70, all down to goverment making money out of tax & fines, amazing how they say oh we have cams for accident spots etc but if they had cars locked down to speeds in areas & max of 70mph on a car then this would be the biggest help towards the whole thing of speed, insurance costs, tax etc.

    The amount of money they spend on cams would most likely easily pay to have a road system linked to cars for speed control with technology as it is today, not entirely impossible, given they want us to all have tags in the car for driving around the country so if we go past a receiver over the max speed for there, it auto fines us, so tech is there to do this.

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    lol what has 50bhp these days? You can still kill yourself with that anyway. Curfews and limiting passengers would be best.

    Anyway yes it is annoying. I think the fine should be alot higher though. I mean they may have to pay 1000+ for insurance but the fine could only be 150.

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  7. #6
    Staz's Avatar
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    That first Fiesta of mine only had 45bhp I think and that was enough for me perhaps a little more I guess as cars weigh more nowadays but no more than 100!
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  8. #7
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    I doubt very much they would put a power restriction on new drivers. It's all about making money, and you've seen yourself in this forum, we have members paying out 2k+ for insurance on their S3's as they are 19 years of age. Do you think the government will say no to the Tax they can make out of these guys?



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  9. #8
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    sadly lots of people cant be arsed to spend the money on insurance, they think whats the point?.

    With ANPR, more powers to seize uninsured vehicles, 6 points for non insurance etc is helping but there's people who just dont care about that.
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  10. #9
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    I agree but it must cost the country a fortune as a whole in insurance payouts, small claims court, legal cases, police time, ambulance time etc etc. Plus ultimately it's more about safety than anything.

    They could offset their loses from their gains.

    Plus there would be a whole new breed of cars that are just on the edge of the limit aimed at new drivers. They would make some money from that. AND lower powered cars can be more economical (unless ragged EVERYWHERE!) so it'd help them meet their emissions targets.
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    Could be an idea for the start of the electric car movement given less power hungry, so would have benefits for cheaper insurance, no emissions unless you count the power suppliers as such, but if safety was the main motive then as I already stated they would have made our cars limited ages ago, its as JoJo says tax gains from the way it is, is to hard to say no to, we have the technology to make changes but there's no tax to gain in that for the goverment, problem is the current goverment doesnt have the foresight to see how this idea would possibly change many factors involved with younger drivers & the climate, but what can you do with Brown at the helm.

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    I think something like they do in Oz would help, no passengers allowed, cant drive at night etc etc untill a full test etc is taken. The test would have to be more than the current UK test.... which in itself is a joke (no motorway training etc WTF??)
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    The test would have to be more than the current UK test.... which in itself is a joke (no motorway training etc WTF??)
    That's pretty much the root of the issue, the easy driving test! It took me 5 days to get my license and the first time I drove after that I felt like I shouldn't be there.

    In Germany it takes ages and includes motorway and night time driving.

    If I started a petition on the No10 petition site how many would be interested in signing? I mean if it's done you would need to pass onto every forum you go onto, send emails to everyone in your address book and spread the news.

    Many of those petitions just go by because no one advertises them.

    I'm sick of the poor driving standards out there.
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  14. #13
    I couldn't agree more. I would definitely sign the petition.

    Did anyone see the Motorway Cops program on television on Tuesday evening. The standard of driving shown was appalling.

    On chap was driving with his family in the car with four children in the back, none of whom were wearing seat belts. When the police stopped him on the hard shoulder they explained to him how he should rejoin the motorway from the hard shoulder to get to a service area for some else to collect one of his children. He then promptly pulled almost straight out in to the carriageway in front of a lorry nearly causing a very serious accident.

    What punishment did he get. A small fine and told to go on a driver improvement course. At the very least he should have had his driving licence taken away and made to take his driving test again. We seem to regard it as a right rather than a privilege to hold a licence.
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  15. #14
    A3Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    We seem to regard it as a right rather than a privilege to hold a licence.

    I agree, and thats the problem. I treasure my licence as I'd be no good at work without it, I couldnt see family, mates etc etc. People need to realise a licence is almost a gift and not a given....look after it as it'll go otherwise.

    T
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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I would definitely sign the petition.

    Did anyone see the Motorway Cops program on television on Tuesday evening. The standard of driving shown was appalling.

    On chap was driving with his family in the car with four children in the back, none of whom were wearing seat belts. When the police stopped him on the hard shoulder they explained to him how he should rejoin the motorway from the hard shoulder to get to a service area for some else to collect one of his children. He then promptly pulled almost straight out in to the carriageway in front of a lorry nearly causing a very serious accident.

    What punishment did he get. A small fine and told to go on a driver improvement course. At the very least he should have had his driving licence taken away and made to take his driving test again. We seem to regard it as a right rather than a privilege to hold a licence.
    This made my blood boil.
    Sickening.
    These people are vermin.

    And that pikey slag who had her kids stuffed in the back of a van and was dis qualified anyway vermin, vermin, vermin.........rotten to the loathesome pikey core...

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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I would definitely sign the petition.

    Did anyone see the Motorway Cops program on television on Tuesday evening. The standard of driving shown was appalling.

    On chap was driving with his family in the car with four children in the back, none of whom were wearing seat belts. When the police stopped him on the hard shoulder they explained to him how he should rejoin the motorway from the hard shoulder to get to a service area for some else to collect one of his children. He then promptly pulled almost straight out in to the carriageway in front of a lorry nearly causing a very serious accident.

    What punishment did he get. A small fine and told to go on a driver improvement course. At the very least he should have had his driving licence taken away and made to take his driving test again. We seem to regard it as a right rather than a privilege to hold a licence.
    Just watched this on Sky in disbelief! I cannot believe that woman at all, does she not get it? The trouble is: in the event of the worst it is not her that has to deal with the trauma of clearing a scene with dead children.

    ...and as for the Rover driver.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    sadly lots of people cant be arsed to spend the money on insurance, they think whats the point?.

    With ANPR, more powers to seize uninsured vehicles, 6 points for non insurance etc is helping but there's people who just dont care about that.
    Bang on.

    Too many just cant be arsed. It does give great pleasure to have them taken away on a recovery truck though. Should it give pleasure?
    It is a massive problem, however it is just on a long list of other massive problems

    Driving standards are poor and I mean p**s poor. Most drivers only look the length of a cricket wicket from the front of the car, which is nice when you're heading towards them on the wrong side of the road.

    Tell you what I could go on and on and on etc but I wont bore you

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    Driving home from a hard days work a couple days ago...I was sitting at a red light listening to a bit of Pink Floyd (The Division Bell if anyone is interested) and next to me pulled up a lad in his Saxo....he had his green P Plates on cos his car was half way across the white line....waiting to go...

    I could not believe how much he revved the nuts of his Saxo before dumping the clutch and squealing the tyres.....I had to laugh in disbelief....

    I wonder if they teach them to drive like that these days........

    ....and yes he did burn me off at the lights....as these days I cannot be arsed driving like a tit !

    As for uninsured drivers - I really hate the b*stards....and I hope they get their come uppance.....What I don't understand is how the DVLA does not "know" who the uninsured cars belong to and their home address (obviously unless the car is also unregisterd, untaxed and not MOT'd)...all sellers of cars should be forced to tell the DVLA who they have sold the car too ....i.e. valid driving licence has to be shown at the time of purchase....
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  20. #19
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    A new proposal on uninsured cars is released today.

    Two sources:
    http://autotraderblog.co.uk/2009/09/...ace-1000-fine/
    http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/243391/

    Owners of uninsured cars could be charged up to 1,000 under new government proposals released today.

    The new fine will affect all registered keepers of uninsured vehicles, not the current law which only punishes those caught driving one. What do you think of the change?


    When an insurance policy has ended, a letter will be sent to the owner as a reminder.

    If no action is taken after a month, the DVLA will issue a 100 fine (this can be reduced to 50 if paid within 21 days).

    If the fine is ignored, the owner could be sentenced in court and hit with a higher 1,000 penalty.

    Drivers who leave an uninsured car parked in the street could have it clamped or impounded.

    To avoid a fine, the owner can declare Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) but only if the car wont be used or parked on a public road.

    Motorists caught driving uninsured cars still face a maximum 5,000 fine and up to eight penalty points under current law.

    What do you think of the new 1,000 fine for uninsured drivers? Have your say in the comments box below.
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    i think some sort of insurance disc would be a good idea that had to be displayed in the windscreen like a tax disc something very intricate with water marks that was difficult to forge then it would be obvious if you was insured you could make it big and flourecent yellow with all the cars details on then if you dont display it you get fined even if you have insurance

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yendall24 View Post
    i think some sort of insurance disc would be a good idea that had to be displayed in the windscreen like a tax disc something very intricate with water marks that was difficult to forge then it would be obvious if you was insured you could make it big and flourecent yellow with all the cars details on then if you dont display it you get fined even if you have insurance

    Nice idea, but someones got to look out for them on every car that passes. ANPR takes care of that anyway as it checks against PNC.

    We just need a decent punishment such as a public flogging or a nice stretch.

    T
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    Nice idea, but someones got to look out for them on every car that passes. ANPR takes care of that anyway as it checks against PNC.

    We just need a decent punishment such as a public flogging or a nice stretch.

    T
    very true but i think if it was blatantly obvious you was not insured ie no disc in your window i think it would cut down on the people taking the chance just think about it every law abiding citizen would know you was a criminal and every parking warden and every copper community police would be able to tell instantly that you was breaking the law

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by yendall24 View Post
    very true but i think if it was blatantly obvious you was not insured ie no disc in your window i think it would cut down on the people taking the chance just think about it every law abiding citizen would know you was a criminal and every parking warden and every copper community police would be able to tell instantly that you was breaking the law
    You can still be not insured with a taxdisk on your window.



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    I may have driven without tax once upon a time, but not insurance. MOT is the one i always forget about.

    Whan we collected the A3 and Stacie crashed it 45 mins later, had we not insured it we would have been in the pooper. The attending officer seemed suprised we had actually done it properly as he said a lot of people rely on the 3rd party add on that comes with fully comp,but are unaware the vehicle needs to be insured alread for that to be in effect

  26. #25
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    Sounds like a great plan!
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    We just need a decent punishment such as a nice stretch.
    How is yoga going to help?

    I think insurance should be tied in with numberplates somehow. For example, you get a number plate with your policy. No insurance, no number plate, easy to spot
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  28. #27
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    when i was 18, years ago now lol a lad in an xr2 crashed into my golf gti and wasnt insured it took me over 18 months to get the money from the motor insurance burea as i was only third party f/t and left without a car for months luckily i was working away most of the time. my girlfriend was hit by an uninsured woman driver 2 years ago and took nearly a year to get paid out. with my current insurance fully comp my no claims are protected and my modifications are also covered and insured with adrian flux so they would in theory cover the cost of replacing the car and the extra equipment+labour also or thats what they told me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    You can still be not insured with a taxdisk on your window.
    read my previous post i am talking about an insurance disc

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan A4 View Post
    Whan we collected the A3 and Stacie crashed it 45 mins later, had we not insured it we would have been in the pooper.
    Women drivers

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    Im a youngish driver myself and pay a fortune for insurance, i have an s3 but i think i drive it well, its not all young drivers are bad ones, and regardless what car, be it an s3 or a fiesta, if they are going to crash they will, you can drive like a penis in any car. And the issue with insurance when your young is it is needlessly expensive, previous to my s3 i had a 1997 Punto, i was paying 2k insurance (only 1.2) Unisured drivers are uninsured because of these stupid prices you can pay for a complete shed of a car. I would never drive uninsured because i know what it can mean to someone if there pride and joy is ruined and there is no way to get it back, (i would be devastated if my s3 was ruined) but some people dont think that, they only see 2k for a punto and think stuff it i cant afford that and drive without insurance.
    What the insurance companies should do in my mind is lower prices on a select few cars aimed at younger drives such as old puntos, fiesta etc encourage them to drive with insurance on cars they deem safe.I mean after all why should anybody consider paying twice what the car is worth in insurance?! Some might say dont drive until you can afford it, but when you have already spent 1k learning why shouldnt you?! prices should not be allowed to touch 2k for a punto or anything else of that caliber. offering cheap insurances on safer cars wont lower accidents but it will lower the amount of uninsured drivers!

  32. #31
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    Insurance is expensive for new drivers and 17 year olds for a reason, they are classed as high risk, and obviously, statistics goes someway to increasing premiums. I'm not saying all young/new drivers are poor drivers, but they do lack the experience, and as such, will always be penalised on the insurance front.



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  33. #32
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    Tax, Insurance and MOT are all a must. I think that the ANPR will pick up anyone of these if not taken out and hopefully the offender will get rightly caught (A3tom correct me if I'm wrong) so why when one of these statutory requirements ends dont the DVLC or other specified body send out a fine if any of them are not taken out within a specified period. Crush the lot of them. Are they not all mutually exclusive? If you don't sorn under either category then fine.

    Many years ago some Toss*r hit me in my XR2 and was un-insured didn't get a penny off of him. He had just come out of prison had not tax, no insurance, no license and the car was not road worthy. He had the cheek to ask me not to go through the insurance and not involve the police, but still refused to pay the 2K damage to my car. He lived in a council flat and received benefits. WTF!!! Needless to say I got F**k all, but did manage to claim some money off the motorist insurance bureau. They don't however pay for damage to cars anymore, only personal injury so I believe.

    My first car was an N reg 950cc mini. It cost me 95 to buy, me and my dad spayed it tractor red (hey the paint was free!!) it was a bit orange peely but it did me for a year. Cost me 180 to insure though. (going back 25 years now - god I feel old!)
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  34. #33
    Dazmo's Avatar
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    Very interesting post this and i share most of you guys opinions and views.

    I blame the parents! thats the source of it all.

    I got smacked as a kid and it never did me any harm infact it taught me respect and to respect others.

    My parents wouldnt allow me to drive anything without tax/insurance and wouldnt allow me to drive anything unroadworthy either.

    I also blame greedy insurance companies, as mentioned previously insurance costs are a joke for younger drivers regardless of experience.

    Why should anyone pay 2000 to insure a 300 car? this encourages people to drive without insurance as the fines are less than the cost of the insurance!! so why not?

    Theres no law in this country anymore, all i can say is f*****f brown and get labour out fast!!!
    Last edited by Dazmo; 5th October 2009 at 00:09.


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  35. #34
    Keeno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmo View Post
    Why should anyone pay 2000 to insure a 300 car? this encourages people to drive without insurance as the fines are less than the cost of the insurance!! so why not?
    It creates a vicious circle. Those that feel that way and don't buy insurance push up premiums for others (because the insurance companies aren't going to foot the bill for paying out on uninsured driver claims), which leads to more people with the attitude of "I'm not paying that much..."

    As a side note, it's not really 2000 to insure a 300 car. More 2000 to insure you. Stack your 300 rot-box into a 40,000 Merc and all of a sudden 2000 doesn't seem so bad...
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