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  1. #81
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    "theres bad drivers everywhere but very few of them are in HGV's"
    So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    "theres bad drivers everywhere but very few of them are in HGV's"
    So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
    Hard to argue with that point really.

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Well since October 07 Ive clocked up approx 65000 miles (in just my LWB Sprinter, I could probably easily add on another 15000 miles which I have done in my Vivaro and a Fabia VRS Ive just sold). Previous to that, from say Sept 07 back to Feb 04, I did on average another 50000 per annum in western Europe, Iraq, Kuwait and Cyprus. That was in RHD mk5 Golfs and 8p Audi A3's plus LHD Vivaro's, Pajeros and Discoverys. I hold full UK, German and Cyprus driving licenses in addition to all the MOD stuff I also had to have so while I wouldnt claim to be an expert driver, I know what I know.
    Well if you drive so much then you can't be very observant, either that or you are very very tolerant of other road users.

    Imagine you were on a 2 lane motorway.
    You are coming up the outside lane at 75-80.
    A car in the inside lane moves out in front of you with very little warning, he's doing about 55-60.
    He then proceeds to overtake a line of traffic as about 4mph more than they are doing.
    YOU are stuck behind this moron.

    You'd soon get the arse, why didn't he wait until there was nothing in the outside lane before he pulled out? maybe he has no concept of distance and time, maybe he thought it would be okay to pull out on a faster moving vehicle.


    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Chances are either someones flashed them to let them go, theres someone trying to enter the A14 and they have moved over or they have seen a space and gone for it. Failing all three like my original post said theres the occasional crap lorry driver but the majority of bad drivers on the roads these days are in cars, they dont drive for a living and they are in a hurry.
    No, it would be me doing 75 in the outside lane, and i wouldn't be flashing a truck to pull out on me, and truck drivers are also in a hurry!
    Some times there is not room to move over to let a truck onto the carriageway, and why should I slam on my brakes to make a 45ft gap to let him in to?

    The 1 occasional crap truck driver can cause so many problems he's like 50 crap car drivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    (Also this is my personal rant to all the morons out there. Instead of pissing round with your mobile or your ipod, chatting to your mates or staring at your Sat Nav, learn to read the road. Look ahead to possible dangers. When I approach a slip road I always clock whats about to come onto the motorway, see if its the feds or a truck or a car towing a caravan then I look at the implications. Who is going to need to move over? Is there enough gaps? If Ive got room to move into the middle or fast lane will this make someone elses life a bit easier??? Or shall I just be a nob? Honestly *I think* its a no brainer but a large proportion of people out there have serious mental difficulties fathoming it out...)
    I understand where you are coming from, but that does not give a truck the right to shove some other idiot into my path in the middle lane because he cannot be bothered to wait. And do lorry drivers not own electrical devices? I've seen a truck driver microwaving a pot noodle while driving!

    Don't make out that truckers are angels, they're not.



    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    When your sitting on the busy motorway in your A4 what can you see? Fcuk all thats what, maybe two cars infront but thats it. If your in a van or a HGV, unless theres something really big infront of you, normally you can tell whats going on at least a mile infront just by the brakelights of the traffic ahead. So if your on a quiet bit of motorway and theres a truck up your arse then your going too slow, if your on a busy bit of motorway and theres a truck up your arse then hes keeping a steady speed and watching the traffic ahead or maybe your one of those idiots thats leaves a massive gap infront of you just so you dont have to change gear while the truck drivers attempting to not stall or have to rev the tits off his wagon.
    That "massive" gap is called a safe braking distance, then again I suppose a truck driver that sits 2ft away from someone's bumper would think 10ft was almost into tomorrow.
    There is NO excuse for tailgating in a 40 tonne lorry, NONE.


    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    The flipside of this is, knowing that it takes so long to get a HGV up to speed surely anyone intentionally or inconsiderately slowing them down should be treated with disdain or tailgated accordingly?
    Well, why don't all us car drivers just get off the road and let all the truckers have all the roads, sorry that they might get held up a bit, lets kill some car drivers as punishment shall we?
    Is that actually a serious comment? please see the picture below for an explanation.
    I could fill this tread with truck pile ups where 4-5 innocent car drivers have died and the truckers are just slightly injured.



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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    just try driving up the A34 any day of the week and see how long it takes for you to start swearing at inconsiderate HGV's trying to overtake each other on a dual carriageway going up a hill.
    Don't get me started on that one, I use the A34 on a regular basis, and have sat for two miles behind an artic doing 56MPH before, trying to overtake another only to give up two miles in.

    As a recent victim of a LHD tractor unit "Didn't see you" (in broken English with a Hungarian accent), I agree that they should be stopped at the ports/EuroTunnel on the way in if they don't have a suitable blindspot mirror on the RHS. Luckily my incident was a low speed one and has only resulted in a badly damage passenger door. I'm currently waiting to see if the driver will admit responsibility, as usual no chance of an independent witness stopping.

    Very sad day for the family involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    So why do they cause so much death on our roads?
    Any accident involving a HGV that results in somebodies death isnt automatically the HGV drivers fault. I doubt very much that any road death statistics out there proportion the blame on who is actually at fault when they get recorded. In answer to your question my personal opinion is these are big vehicles and when something goes wrong that involves them it goes wrong bigtime so a bit of patience, caution and some common sense helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro View Post
    Well if you drive so much then you can't be very observant, either that or you are very very tolerant of other road users.
    The latter, Im a very laid back chilled person so I guess rather than typing out a amazing rebuttle I'll have to agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro View Post
    Don't make out that truckers are angels, they're not.
    As per my original post, I never said all lorry drivers are perfect, just that by and large I thought that they tend to be more curteous and polite. Theres bad drivers in both cars and lorries, most of them are in cars though.

    This happened just up the road from here a few months ago, 6 people died, the Lorry driver wasnt at fault, very sad indeed:

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  8. #87
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    Unfortunately not all truckers are like that, my friend is a HazMat driver and he's the nicest guy you could meet.
    Chris

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  9. #88
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    Personal observations are fine, but there's a lot of people throwing a lot of 'facts' around. Where are they all coming from?

    The only stuff I can find (but I've only given it about 15 minutes) that links accident to vehicle involvement is a report from Scotland.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/204167/0054362.pdf

    On page 105 there is a table, which for 2006 (most recent available) quotes 172 HGV incidents (just in Scotland) where someone was killed or seriously injured, compared to 2842 for cars. It also gives million km driven per class (an I thought this country used miles?) as 2726 for HGVs and 34302 for cars. That gives an accident rate of 0.0631 incidents/million km for HGVs and 0.0828 incidents/million km for cars.

    Doesn't take away from the observation that there could be some pretty simple improvements, but one thing that boils my balls is internet 'facts'.

  10. #89
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    Let's add fuel to the debate....

    Personal Rant/

    Just yesterday whilst driving my mother's Honda Jazz Auto, I had to join onto the M6 with unexpected roadworks, I had one single lane and going uphill to reach my speed to join the motorway. I had to seriously do full throttle all the way up the hill just to get to 50mph and slot into the 50mph restricted moving traffic which happened to be between 2 HGV's. Now I had nowhere to go but to join the traffic, unless I wanted a one way trip into a load of bollards then down the hardshoulder, but the rear of the two HGV's had left me a 3 car length gap to get in! It was only with my experience and driving confidence that I would have joined the traffic @50MPH, I could see a lot of old and maybe inexperienced drivers braking hard at this point, then heading towards the bollards.
    Anyways, once I had slotted in, I'm about a car length away from HGV infront, and the one in the rear thought it would be fun to accellerate upto my arse about a foot away in my rearview mirror. You can imagine how I'm feeling now with my whole frikin family on board, and if I was sandwiched, I doubt any of us could walk away unharmed!
    I had no choice but to back off the throttle to around 45mph to build a bit of a gap between the HGV infront and myself for safety reasons, then the guy behind eventually backed off.
    What was the purpose of the manouver by the HGV? I did nothing wrong, I tried my best to keep the traffic flowing in a low powered car, not too sure what other options I had at that moment in time?

    Annoyed by this type of driving by a supposed professional driver when the conditions dictates you should be driving in a different manner.

    I'm just annoyed at this particular HGV driver and not generalising them in anyway, it was poor driving from this individual from my point of view - To55er!

    /Rant over



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  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geordie Mike View Post
    Personal observations are fine, but there's a lot of people throwing a lot of 'facts' around. Where are they all coming from?
    The only stuff I can find (but I've only given it about 15 minutes) that links accident to vehicle involvement is a report from Scotland.
    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/204167/0054362.pdf
    On page 105 there is a table, which for 2006 (most recent available) quotes 172 HGV incidents (just in Scotland) where someone was killed or seriously injured, compared to 2842 for cars. It also gives million km driven per class (an I thought this country used miles?) as 2726 for HGVs and 34302 for cars. That gives an accident rate of 0.0631 incidents/million km for HGVs and 0.0828 incidents/million km for cars.
    Doesn't take away from the observation that there could be some pretty simple improvements, but one thing that boils my balls is internet 'facts'.
    So its now the internets fault, really clutching at straws here aren't we?
    Apart from it being bloody obvious that HGV's cause more deaths than any other vehicle per mile, there are plenty of reports that back it up.
    I got my data from a couple of sources, a greenparty.org report that quoted:
    "6.2 HGVs are involved in a disproportionately high rate of all RTAs, and when collisions do occur they are likely to cause serious harm. Due to their weight and lack of manoeuvrability, it is unsurprising that HGVs are involved in more fatal accidents per kilometre travelled than cars. Indeed, the rate for cars is roughly half of that for HGVs.
    6.3 Below is shown some key Statistics on HGV traffic related accidents:
    14,526 HGVs Involved in injury accidents
    13,278 Injury accidents involving HGVs
    576 Deaths in these accidents"

    And also freightonrail.org that reported some transport 2000 data as:
    "Although accounting for only 6% of vehicle kilometres travelled, lorries are responsible for 18% of road deaths. In 1999 HGVs caused 617 out of 3423 fatalities. Road Accidents GB
    HGVs are up to eight times more dangerous than cars in terms of fatalities per mile travelled." T2000 research

    So I think we can all agree at least on one thing, the data is pretty damning wherever you get it from.
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  12. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    In answer to your question my personal opinion is these are big vehicles and when something goes wrong that involves them it goes wrong bigtime so a bit of patience, caution and some common sense helps.
    Patience, caution & common sense, thats a good one, I did a quick run to brighton audi this afternoon, lets see now, cement lorry stuck in outside lane trying to overtake a fiesta going faster than him up a hill, uuurrm common sense that one & 2nd a fairly long HGV in left hand lane on dual coming upto a roundabout, signals to get into right lane, so I went down left as it was my turning left, whats he do way back from roundabout, starts to swing left into my fecking lane for no reason still signalling for right lane & then decides to take up all the lanes, roundabout was big didnt need the turning area he was trying to get, I'm not exactly wet behind ears I know the room they need to get round safely, this lorry driver was a complete tosser like many I've seen on the roads, attitude of we're bigger so feck of

    the roads require respect for eachother not just cause I'm bigger than you or my cars a bloody SUV etc, you get my point, but Lorry drivers as I've already said seem to have there own personal set of rules, as I've also said I'm not saying all are the same but most the ones I've seen seem to have the same attitude, they should respect safety, smaller vehicles & allow for the unforeseen, not do as JoJo has said get up your arse on purpose to be threatening/imposing, that really pisses me of big time cause there's no need for it, especially when they hit you & then they say oh the lorry driver is in shock, yeah fecking should be if he kills someone for there bad driving.

    Yes there are bad car drivers that pull in last minute in scenarios like Jojo's but mostly lorries can see alot more than us from up higher I believe, they are trained to be more aware(or should of been anyway) so whats the excuse huh!!!!!!

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  13. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Let's add fuel to the debate....

    Personal Rant/

    Just yesterday whilst driving my mother's Honda Jazz Auto, I had to join onto the M6 with unexpected roadworks, I had one single lane and going uphill to reach my speed to join the motorway. I had to seriously do full throttle all the way up the hill just to get to 50mph and slot into the 50mph restricted moving traffic which happened to be between 2 HGV's. Now I had nowhere to go but to join the traffic, unless I wanted a one way trip into a load of bollards then down the hardshoulder, but the rear of the two HGV's had left me a 3 car length gap to get in! It was only with my experience and driving confidence that I would have joined the traffic @50MPH, I could see a lot of old and maybe inexperienced drivers braking hard at this point, then heading towards the bollards.
    Anyways, once I had slotted in, I'm about a car length away from HGV infront, and the one in the rear thought it would be fun to accellerate upto my arse about a foot away in my rearview mirror. You can imagine how I'm feeling now with my whole frikin family on board, and if I was sandwiched, I doubt any of us could walk away unharmed!
    I had no choice but to back off the throttle to around 45mph to build a bit of a gap between the HGV infront and myself for safety reasons, then the guy behind eventually backed off.
    What was the purpose of the manouver by the HGV? I did nothing wrong, I tried my best to keep the traffic flowing in a low powered car, not too sure what other options I had at that moment in time?

    Annoyed by this type of driving by a supposed professional driver when the conditions dictates you should be driving in a different manner.

    I'm just annoyed at this particular HGV driver and not generalising them in anyway, it was poor driving from this individual from my point of view - To55er!

    /Rant over
    Get his number plate and phone the company.
    You will find in this BENIFITS Led Nation of ours most companys are struggling for HGV Drivers so they are forced to employ anybody who comes along and sometimes they are bad but i still say alot more HGV drivers are responsible proffesionals. Fraid i cannot say that about the private/company car fraternity in which the good drivers are the minority.

    They are big and they are heavy and when they are placed in an unexpected situation there can be carnage.

    The guy who was tailgating you deserves the sack at least to lose his licence for 10 years would be preferable.

    Good and bad in any type of vehicle.
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    "Good and bad in any type of vehicle."
    There it is again, is that all anyone can come up with? For the millionth time "yes we know", what we're saying is that it is the responsibilty of HGV drivers to look out for us poor amateurs, like we have to look out for suicidal cyclists and nutters on scooters/bikes. It's their job!! And while we all agree that there are many good HGV drivers out there, the trend seems to be downward so we need to do something to limit the damage the poorer drivers can do. And yes that will be at the expense of the better drivers, just like good car drivers have to compromise their behaviour on the roads for the benefit of idiots asleep at the wheel, on their mobiles or just plain incompetant.

    And I'm not buying the driver shortage as either true or a valid excuse for poor skills at the wheel when they are supposed to be trained professionals.
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  15. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    So its now the internets fault, really clutching at straws here aren't we?
    1) Thanks for showing the data, now a lot of the stuff you have been saying has more credibility.

    2) Did it come from the internet?

  16. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geordie Mike View Post
    1) Thanks for showing the data, now a lot of the stuff you have been saying has more credibility.

    2) Did it come from the internet?
    Maybe Andy's did come from the net but probably respected factual sites, but my posts come from what I've seen today & you know whats funny, not once today did I see a car driver act as a lorry driver did which is strange!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geordie Mike View Post
    Personal observations are fine, but there's a lot of people throwing a lot of 'facts' around. Where are they all coming from?

    The only stuff I can find (but I've only given it about 15 minutes) that links accident to vehicle involvement is a report from Scotland.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/204167/0054362.pdf

    On page 105 there is a table, which for 2006 (most recent available) quotes 172 HGV incidents (just in Scotland) where someone was killed or seriously injured, compared to 2842 for cars. It also gives million km driven per class (an I thought this country used miles?) as 2726 for HGVs and 34302 for cars. That gives an accident rate of 0.0631 incidents/million km for HGVs and 0.0828 incidents/million km for cars.

    Doesn't take away from the observation that there could be some pretty simple improvements, but one thing that boils my balls is internet 'facts'.
    That's all well and good, but when you consider that nobody drives a truck for pleasure/social reasons and that all truckers are 'professional drivers', that accident rate is simply shocking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geordie Mike View Post
    1) Thanks for showing the data, now a lot of the stuff you have been saying has more credibility.

    2) Did it come from the internet?
    No I went and spent 4 hours at the library with the micro fiche!
    Of course it came from the internet

    The argument here is not whether HGV's are more dangerous per mile than any other vehicle. That's well understood, and bloody obvious if you've ever driven anywhere and/or ever watched the news or traffic cops.
    The argument should be about the best way to reduce the shocking number of fatalities. As the original post, sad & terrible as it is, kind of confirms the devastation caused on a weekly basis by HGV's on our roads. Arguing over how bad that data is is pretty pointless. The point is it's bad, very bad, wherever you look, so can we get over the "I don't believe it's that bad" mentality and also stop taking the daily observations made here so personally. No one is suggesting that anyone on here is guilty of the same incompetance. I'm a car driver and the first to admit the standard of car driving in the UK is diabolical. I don't try and defend it just because I'm included in that group, and neither should the HGV drivers on here. Bikes are the same but at least they usually take themselves out of the gene pool by their behaviour rather than innocent motorists (and I know a lot of bikers are killed by idiots in cars, but a lot also just seem to commit suicide as well).
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    I disagree. A lot of people form opinions when they're based solely on "what someone said". Notice I never disagreed with someones opinions. I've observed a whole lot of stupid stuff done by HGVs too. But people making ignorant decisions based on something they haven't bothered to check out happens all too often - it's what the newspapers rely on. It's nice to know that you actually bothered to check, 'cos a lot of people don't. It's a shame that you didn't say so initially, but each to their own.

    Notice I also agree that there are some things that should be done. Perhaps I could have asked in a more friendly manner where all the facts were coming from, but somehow I doubt you'd find that way as much fun.

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    [quote=AndyMac;634751
    And I'm not buying the driver shortage as either true or a valid excuse for poor skills at the wheel when they are supposed to be trained professionals.[/quote]

    There was a massive driver shortage in the UK a while back until our freinds across the english channel came over to help out.
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    I wouldn't post "these are the facts" if it was based on heresay, apart from anything else I'd get flamed pretty quickly if I was making it up.
    But yes I spend all day having to be friendly to largely idiots, so forgive me if I just cut to the chase on here, it's one way of blowing off steam.....
    Can't be doing with sugar coating everything forr the benefit of those on here of a sensitive nature.
    Last edited by AndyMac; 29th October 2008 at 12:11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFSI View Post
    There was a massive driver shortage in the UK a while back until our freinds across the english channel came over to help out.
    That was nice of them, now they can feck off back there cause they're one of the big offenders to as they just flaunt the laws & dont give a ****e

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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro View Post
    That's all well and good, but when you consider that nobody drives a truck for pleasure/social reasons and that all truckers are 'professional drivers', that accident rate is simply shocking.
    Scuse me i drive all sorts of trucks for pleasure only, the smallest a 7.5 tonner and the largest grossed 60 tonnes. Try one sometime especially the heavies its really quite enjoyable (40 hours a week another story) even i who only drive a little get hellish problems with bikes, pedestrians, and motorbikes and cars in front, behind and worse down the sides where you are struggling to see.

    Really you would find a 44 ton artic far more enjoyable than your Audi's !

    I do anyway
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  24. #103
    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    I wouldn't post "these are the facts" if it was based on heresay, apart from anything else I'd get flamed pretty quickly if I was making it up.
    But yes I spend all day having to be friendly to largely idiots, so forgive me if I just cut to the chase on here, it's one way of blowing off steam.....
    Wouldnt worry andy cause I would have thought with the detail of your facts it was obvious it was from reliable sources, wasnt exactly text speak was it.

    & ye know that feeling, there are fair few about, to many people go round the long way to a point, just be direct & to the point, hey if it offends people thats there problem, at least they know where you stand, havnt got time for nancying about just to please everyone else cause who said you're supposed to be friends with everyone you meet or chat with huh, at least we have an opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    That was nice of them, now they can feck off back there cause they're one of the big offenders to as they just flaunt the laws & dont give a ****e
    Exactly what i was trying to get across without seeming politically incorrect.
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  26. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFSI View Post
    Really you would find a 44 ton artic far more enjoyable than your Audi's !
    Yeah of course I will, I'll go trade mine in right now so I can drive like a tosser aswell, not directed at you personally & you cant deny there are some real bad ones out there, but I've driven fair few miles around the country on all kinds roads & in some different vehicles, large vans, cars, smaller vans & the common thing for me to see if the total lack of respect lorry drivers have for other road users, yeah admittedly there are car drivers that dont make it easy for you at all, but thats no excuse to drive in the manner I see often, only just yesterday saw some stupid driving by few lorries, thank god I dont do so many miles anymore

    I understand the way they have to drive given size but some are just blatantly bad & have the attitude of king of the road stay out of our way, of course I wouldnt argue with a truck but as Jojo experience shows which I've had happen to me many a time, they think its clever to be threatening, then when they actually drive over a car cause they're to close they're all sorry which doesnt help the poor family thats lost in the wreckage

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  27. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    Yeah of course I will, I'll go trade mine in right now so I can drive like a tosser aswell, not directed at you personally & you cant deny there are some real bad ones out there, but I've driven fair few miles around the country on all kinds roads & in some different vehicles, large vans, cars, smaller vans & the common thing for me to see if the total lack of respect lorry drivers have for other road users, yeah admittedly there are car drivers that dont make it easy for you at all, but thats no excuse to drive in the manner I see often, only just yesterday saw some stupid driving by few lorries, thank god I dont do so many miles anymore

    I understand the way they have to drive given size but some are just blatantly bad & have the attitude of king of the road stay out of our way, of course I wouldnt argue with a truck but as Jojo experience shows which I've had happen to me many a time, they think its clever to be threatening, then when they actually drive over a car cause they're to close they're all sorry which doesnt help the poor family thats lost in the wreckage
    The truck in my avatar is far better looking than your Audi

    Here it is again fact of life GOOD/BAD TRUCK DRIVERS and GOOD/BAD CAR DRIVERS.
    Last edited by TFSI; 29th October 2008 at 12:34.
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  28. #107
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    Does it have hanging dice as thats a prerequisite for a truck

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  29. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    Can't be doing with sugar coating everything for the benefit of those on here of a sensitive nature.
    Just ****ing say it how it ****ing well is will you for ****s sake!!! lololol

    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    Yeah of course I will, I'll go trade mine in right now so I can drive like a tosser aswell
    right, where is that sugar?

    I know i'll just pop to sainsburys in my Scania R620 and get some...
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  30. #109
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    lol, good reply actually nice truck but if WCC are doing trucks now then the economic climate must be bad, lol

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  31. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by A4Quattro View Post
    right, where is that sugar?
    I know i'll just pop to sainsburys in my Scania R620 and get some...

    Lucky for you a nice truck dropped the sugar off at sainsburys, If it was up to Andymac you would have to drive all the way to the sugar refinery to collect it as trucks would all be banned, that's after you drove to the fuel refinery to fill your tank.

  32. #111
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    Trucks would be banned? Yes that's exactly what I said.
    What bit of "stop taking things so personally" didn't you understand?
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
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  33. #112
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    God how did we all cope for thousands of years before trucks came along?

    I could cycle to the refinery, because at least I wouldn't have to worry about being mowed down by a trucker eating his pork pie.
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  34. #113
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    I think you'll find its a cornish pastie by Ginsters

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  35. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    I'm glad to say I have no idea what a "chewbacca defence" is. (grow up, it's a kids film)
    Nothing to do with the debate really but since you raised it, experience is everything in driving, especially safety, that's why premiums get lower - durrrr!
    The old timer could fall asleep at the wheel just as easily as the youngster could have been up all night popping pills etc etc.
    "...and that is a real oversimplification" - its a generalisation I admit, but that's what we're dealing with here. HGV's kill twice as many people on the roads per mile, that's a fact, or is that oversimplifying again.
    "Inconsiderate maybe, but is that in itself inherently dangerous?"
    Well I'd like to recommend a spot on a motorway where an HGV will have an horrendous crash in the near future, but my crystal ball has just been "upgraded" with Vista so no longer works too well. My point was that in my experience (20 years, 20k miles per year) I will see an HGV driver behaving stupidly/inconsiderately/dangerously every day I'm on the road, so they're not these romantic "knights of the road" figures that some people seem to think. Yes, the same goes for bikes and cars, but the standard should be higher from professional drivers and I don't see it.
    If you saw a police driver 2 inches off the bumper of an artic you'd be almost compelled to make a complaint. Yes everyone ****s up once in a while but it seems to be a little more than that with HGV's, and it's certainly got worse. Whether it's because of foreign drivers, cost cutting, congestion or all of the above, peak time lane restrictions on motorways would save lives, and that's pretty much a fact and well worth doing. Do it for a week, see what happens. I think there should be more trials. Have a day when all traffic lights are switched off, have a no motorway speed limit day - see what happens, doubt the powers that be would like the results.
    zzzzzz sorry - i lost interest the second you said 'durrrr' like a teenager for the.......how many times is it now?

  36. #115
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    Another one of those pesky bloody trucks

    Dolphin Grey Metallic and styled by AUDI

    Last edited by TFSI; 30th October 2008 at 20:12.
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  37. #116
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    It's just missing 'LY' after the front badge. What a beast.

  38. #117
    NHN
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    with a leak lol

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  39. #118
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    or WO in front, lol

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  40. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    with a leak lol
    Clever bloody truck then cos its leaked 12 inches in front of itself and not underneath

    Oh and stick to driving A3's cos i dont think you could handle a biggun
    Last edited by TFSI; 30th October 2008 at 20:17.
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  41. #120
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    nah its rolled backwards or someone's peed on the front, lol

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