2008cc 20 Valve Turbo Stroker Build

I new to the forum so first off hello all,

That's the introduction over with! So here go's.

My plan is to transform my standard 2000 Audi A4 B5 1.8T sport quattro into something that will be a bit nippier.

My Goals
I haven't really set any horsepower targets as i don't want to chase numbers on a dyno and kill it! I reckon it will make good power without pushing the set up too hard.

ETA
Again i haven't set a date because in previous experiences you tend to rush things and mess stuff up, or worse forget something! My guestimation is around June / July 2010. My bank account tends to dictate the pace this project moves forward.

Purpose
At the moment I drive the Audi everday, once the engine goes in I will use it occasionally on the road, some track days and a few Drag runs but mainly just a toy to play with and enjoy.

Car Spec - Items in red are still required, If any one can help spec'ing the rest of the bits please fire away as im still uncertain on a few things. Even better if anyone has any of the parts listed for sale:icon_thumright:

Engine
058 Block 83mm Bore 2008cc
JE Custom Forged Pistons 8.5:1 CR
Integrated Engineering Rods 20mm wrist pin ARP 2000 Fasteners
034 Motorsport Anti-friction coated main bearings
Calico Anti-friction coated rod bearings
VW ABF 2.0 cast crank 92.8mm stroke
Balanced & Shaved intermediate shaft
Modified cylinder 4 oil squirter
Dowel pinned crank pulley
Fluidamper vibration damper pulley
CLUTCH & FLYWHEEL - ANY ADVISE? Im leaning towards the Clutchmaster FX 850 dual plate jobbie.
ARP Main Studs
ARP Head Studs
ARP Flywheel Bolts
AEB Cylinder Head slight polish to remove major casting flash & mismatch
Supertech Inconel exhaust valves single groove standard size
Supertech Stainless Steel Nitrided intake valves single groove standard size
Supertech Highlift Valve springs, single intakes, dual exhaust
Supertech titanium retainers & Valve keepers
Catcam 1013653 billet camshafts & vernier pulleys
Garrett GT3076R "GT30R" ball bearing turbo with ported compressor housing & 3" V band exhaust side.
SPA turbo T3 top mount cast manifold
TiAL 38mm external wastegate plumbed into downpipe
Milltek exhaust system downpipe back
Cat - God knows how im going to sort that out!
Possible custom intake manifold with 8 injectors
Water methanol injection
Evolution Racewerks front mount intercooler
034 Motorsport engine, gearbox, diff and subframe mounts
Bosch motorsport 044 fuel pump
Aeromotive Fuel pressure regulator
INJECTORS?
ECU? No flash tune for this set up I was thinking Emerald or DTA?

As for the rest of the car I will cover this off later, so watch this space! Everything has been considered and nothing will be left untouched. I have already made some significant changes to the chassis and brakes which i will detail later.

I will start with the engine work that I've already completed, followed by the work still required.

I started with a spare AEB engine 058 block which i won on Ebay for £60. Stripped it, dipped it and enamelled it black.


Stripping it - Looks minging hey.


After hot tanking


Enamelled black

Next step was to drop it off at my local machine shop, I had the block opened up to 83mm with 4.5 thou clearance as I will be using a forged JE custom piston! I didn't use a torque plate because I couldn't find one anywhere at the time, I have since seen these for sale but are very expensive.


You can see the cross hatching from the honing here, top skim will be done once the squish measurement is taken.

I then assembled the rods and pistons together and hit a problem! It seems that JE had forgotten to properly clear the underside of the piston to accept the small end of the rod! This was quickly sorted on a CNC machine with a ball nose cutter. All together and they look the shizzle!


NICE!

Then came the longest part of all, fitting the stroker crank! I removed a crank from a 2.0 8V Golf GTI motor ABF i think, unfortunately I had to buy another engine to get this crank! I managed to sell the head & block and actually got the crank for free! Its a cast item, you can get lucky and find forged ones but hey cast ones have held up to serious torque over the pond in the States so im not worried. Fitting this 92.8mm crank into an 058 block is not to be sniffed at, it does drop in until you fit a rod! You have to clear the crank case walls a fair bit in places, depending on the rod design this will then determine how much. I used intergrated engineering rods and it turns out there not that great for a stroker build in a 058 block. I had to chamfer the bottom of the bores for the rods to clear. Because you want to remove the minimum amount of material to gain the right amount of clearance you want to creep up on it so requires torquing the crank up a million times to check clearance, during this constant rebuild and strip down I have used new bearings which will be thrown in the bin once im happy and replaced with coated ones, I did however check mains & big end clearances with platigauges they are slightly over OEM specs as the crank was polished but this is good for a free revving engine, especially since it will redline at 8500, I will check these again with the new bearings upon final assembly. I dont have any pictures of this but I can get some if anyone really wants to see the grinding required. I have used ARP fasteners for the main crank caps, these have to go through a number of torque cycles before you can finally torque them up for good, this was the ideal point they've been torqued up more times than i care to remember.

The stroker crank is the reason for the custom JE pistons, here's a side by side image next to an OEM Mahle piston, im sure you can figure out the differences yourselves, your all clever people!




Next job was to file fit the piston rings to match these end gap tolerances

Top ring to 0.018"
2nd ring to 0.020"
oil rings greater than 0.015"

This really is a crap job but has to be done to avoid the ring ends butting up and gouging the bores to bits.

I then assembled the rods and pistons together and hit a problem! It seems that JE had forgotten to properly clear the underside of the piston to accept the small end of the rod! This was quickly sorted on a CNC machine with a ball nose cutter. All together and they look the shizzle!


Finally I could assemble the engine for the first time and it actually turn a full revolution, took a few weeks working late nights after work to get this far, Oh the satisfaction.
Looking Good.

On to the next stage, fitting the intermediate shaft. The OEM shaft is actually pretty shocking to be honest. Its so unbalanced its scary when it turns on the lathe. The problem I had was that cylinder 4 was catching the oil pump drive gear so i needed to remove about 5mm from the back face to make it work. Also the shaft is tapered and ran far to close to the rod in cylinder 1 so i took the taper out, once it was done it span alot nicer than before.


Before


Before


After, Notice the shaft also, this is the same diameter all the way along.

And the last internal modification was to oil squirter in cylinder 4, see the block picture below you can see the base for cylinder 4 is higher up the block therefore making the oil squiter closer to the piston (you can't really tell from the pic so you will just have to believe me, it did connect so I had to sort it out, I had to be real careful because if i raised it up to much the timing wheel on the crank would eat it.


This picture was taken before surgery so you can't see what I had to grind away.

Notice how there is a small notch in the piston skirt to provide as much clearance as possible for the squirter


Then as an extra precaution i ground down the over hanging lip of the squirter, sorry about the pic.

That about covers the work to date on the bottom end, I need to decide which flywheel & Clutch to go with so I can get the entire rotating assembly balanced and finally assembled, Don't even dare suggest a new dual mass unit, this thing would kick the poop out of it.

Any one care to estimate the crank horsepower at around 20 PSI? Maybe we could run a sweepstake.

I hope all that makes sense! I haven't proof read it so apologies if some of its crap!

Next I will detail the cylinder head build up, If anyone wants to see anything in particular then please ask I have lots of pics.

I will part with a comparison shot of the K03 turbo next to the GT30R! Enjoy

13 Views and not a peep out of anyone!

Your not kidding, Still some way to go as well. Scary thing is this is only stage 1!

emery1990 said:

Nice read, very interested in the boreing, do you have to have your engine out and stripped for the company to bore it.

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To bore your motor you have to obviously remove it from the car and strip it down. Boring requires a very accurate CNC machine and a very fine touch to get it right. Then you may as well use your pistons as paper weights as they won't fit in your block anymore. Its a slippery slope to being broke fella.

RichA3Turbo said:

Looks like your doing a real good job there!
With the 3076 and the extra capacity that should drive real nice.

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Thanks mate, The main reason for going 2.0 was to increase the base torque figures and allow me to spook bigger turbos. This will still be a tad laggy though but I will compensate for that with lots of boost!

Spook!?! I meant Spool. LOL

I next tackled the cylinder head which again followed the same treatment as the block, stripped, hot tanked, and enamelled.


Notice the broken manifold stud threaded hole! This has now been fixed






During the build up the valve stem clearances were measured with the new Supertech valves, the exhaust valve guides were toast. These were removed and new Supertech guides were fitted and reamed true to the seat. This was done at a local machine shop for a reasonable price. The inlets were however spot on so the OEM ones will remain. The head was also lightly skimmed, the machinist told me that the entire head was on the **** by about 4 thousands of an inch! Dont believe all you hear about Audi build quality. This was obviously put right.


Notice the valves only have a single groove, these are said to be stronger than the OEM triple grooves. Also note how the black intake valve has a wasted stem (reduction in diameter) to increase the volume of the intake throats.

The valves were lapped in and the retaining hardware fitted, I have heard a few horror stories using the supertech valvetrain, some users hadn't properly seated the valves in the head and upon start up probably began to cry.


Valvetrain spec's


Marvel at the 5 valve Cosworth technology.



The intake valves are nitride coated stainless steel and the Exhaust side are inconel to cope with the high temperatures. These are standard size valves.

The sharp edges around the combustion chambers were also chamfered to remove the square edge. This was done because the metal at the thinnest part has a tendency to heat up under boost and promote detonation which I would really like to avoid.

That's as far as I've got with the head. There is still a bit to do but all the hard work is done.

Parts still needed:

Camshafts
OEM Hydraulic lifters
Cam chain tensioner.

Have any of you guys ever run an aftermarket cam in your motors?

NHN said:

Hey I will be avidly watching this, that turbo comparison man, lol, look at the size of that fecker, lol.

So whats it cost so far?

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That GT30R is a beast hey, I can't wait to hear it scream its tits off! LOL

Christ knows how much im in for! I daren't add it all up. I promise once the car is running I will post up a full cost breakdown so the community can understand what it takes to build a fast modified car properly. Bear in mind all the spanner work is done by myself so no labour costs.

One wise man once said if you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it! And believe me im no rich man, just thoroughbred petrolhead with no financial sense!

jim s3 said:

Same turbo as me

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Sweet bro, forgive me I haven't had chance to view any other threads yet, Is your GT30R in and running? What you doing for management?

Im just looking through some pictures. Check these out to understand how tight the 058 block really is. For those who don't know the 058 block's utilise an external water pump & intermediate shaft driven off the timing belt to turn the oil pump. The later 1.8T are 06A blocks, these have an internal water pump and chain driven oil pumps connected directly to the crank.

Right then, that covers the engine work completed so far I will update once I progress it further. I need a clutch & flywheel thats man enough for the job, Jim S3 what are you using? Surely someone must know what I can use? Ive been looking at this:-

http://www.clutchmasters.com/index.php?module=site&action=GetPage&id=31

Any thoughts?

Once I decide on a clutch & flywheel I will send it away with the crank, rods & pistons for full dynamic balancing and finally assembled.

The chariot awaiting this motor started out life like this:-



I couldn't stand the wheels being so far inside the arches and i don't believe in wheel spacers. So i changed them for 18" x 8" ET35. it certainly looks better




Interestingly these Team Dynamic ProRace 1.2's were 0.5Kg lighter each than the OEM Ronal sport wheels which were 17" x 7's. They are also forged and heat treated and are fitted to almost all the BTCC cars. last thing i need is the car shedding a wheel at speed! It does happen, especially with all these Chinese replica wheels flooding Ebay, buyers beware.

I then had to drop it to sort that gap out and fix the broken spring perches in the rear! I achieved this using an Eibach pro spring kit with the OEM sport dampers. Whilst in there I thought it was a good idea to replace all the control arms. I didn't stop there, when my new arms arrived weeks later from Lemforder in Germany I drilled all the bushes out! And replaced them with powerflex polyurethane bushes (squeek squeek) and 034 Motorsport solid strut top mounts. This without doubt is the best modification I've made to date, the original bushes had covered over 100K miles so were mushy to say the least! But the turn in now is awesome, the feeling of grip seems endless which is suprising for such a heavy car. It does still need alot more rear roll bar before im happy with the handling. A damper upgrade is also to come, may be even go all out and get the Stasis motorsport set up for the ultimate flexibility. But this will only come much later.

http://www.stasisengineering.com/Category_Detail.aspx?id=4&VID=32&PID=88

Im just waiting for the suspension to finally settle then I will post a pic of the difference, I only replaced this lot last week. It already looks loads better.

Obviously once the motor is in it will take some serious brakes to drive this car with confidence. Im still working on my final set up, but I have fitted some Porsche one piece Brembo's with 330mm discs which are actually from an Alfa V6 Brera, remachined the PCD to suit, its a cheap disc with a good annulus that allows full pad engagement. Only downside is that isn't a tall disc so deep wheels are needed, they only just fit and run alot closer to the wheels than I would like, but this is only temporary and as already stated wheel spacers are not my thing. The other downside is the centre bore is too big, I need to order some studs to replace my wheel bolts really. Realistically I need more TPA (total piston area) in my calipers, these Porcshe numbers are a bit small. I could change the master cylinder but thats more ball ache than its worth to be honest.


Porsche 911 996 TT rear calipers

Fitting these required more machining to make the carriers, then powdercoated etc etc. This was done by a friend who posts over on MKIV GTI forum, i believe he will have kits ready for you A3 / S3 guys if your interested.

The Kumho's will be replaced for Toyo R888's once it loses it daily driver status.

The final set up will likely be AP racing calipers with a custom alloy bell bolted to maybe carbon ceramic discs eventually but initially drilled discs. I will swap the A4 front hub carriers for the S4 ones I have, these will allow much deeper discs to be used and the caliper carrier mounting tabs are much further apart which should be more rigid. The Porsche calipers currently on the front (pictured above) will move to the rear which will require a seperate rear caliper just for the handbrake, like an Aston Martin DB9. This is becoming more and more common.

Foxmeister said:

Good to see all angles being covered, brakes etc aswell as the detailed engine build. Wot other cars you built, seem to know ur stuff? Oh, n welcome to the site mate.:icon_thumright:

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Thanks for the welcome fella, I have tried to consider everything, it would be silly to throw so much money into this and lose it all for something simple, I've seen it happen, If you have a butchers at some of the US forums, you will see loads of broken motors. I guess this happens when pushing the limits so far beyond the OEM's design, my A4's 1.8T engine was specced at 180HP and thats the sport model. Im shooting for around 450~500 CHP. And its usually the simplest thing that will kill it.

I still have a fair bit to post up to be honest so stay tuned, I see in your signature your also building an A4 I will be sure to check it out.

So what other cars have I built! None! This is my first crack at an entire build like this. But I have dabbled with all sorts over the years and effectively done all this before. I've Rebuilt a Pug 205 GTI numerous times, the ****** kept popping motors! I also use to ride alot of motocross 4 stroke & 2 strokes which requires engine rebuilds weekly the way I rode em and spent a fair while rebuilding gearboxes for all manner of things from 16 wheel trucks, race cars, 4x4's whatever. And between me and a few friends we've had our hands in all sorts things.

As for the engine build, Im itching to get it fully assembled, I really need the clutch and flywheel first though so I can get it all balanced.

No I don't do any of the machining. I have a mate that works nights at a local machine shop he does all that for me. Just give him the specs and jobs a good'an. The guys a wizard with engines, He builds superbike engines by the boat load for racers of all series including TT riders, He tells me hes done a few other bits as well Skylines, Supras, ur quattros etc. Cost me almost nothing as well, happy days!

I Forgot to mention, I must give a big thank you to Pete over at:-

http://www.intengineering.com/Shop/Control/fp/SFV/32093

Now he really knows these motors inside out. He has recommended the specs to allow me to get the full potential from my setup.

devonmikeyboy said:

Fair play to you mate. Nice to know i am not the only person on this site spending stupid money on an engine rebuild at the moment. Any reason you didn`t Cryo treat the block as you had it acid dipped anyway?

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Mikeyboy please enlighten me, I wasn't even contemplating having the block cryo'd certainly the clutch pressure plate and flywheel but not the block. Who offers this service in the UK? And any ideas on cost? Have you had any adverse effeccts that has led you to need the block Cryo'd? please tell me more.

INA said:

Build looks amazing mate!
You are going to have to clearance the walls of the block for the connecting rods though.
Wish someone had told you before you assembled the motor.

As for clutch, South Bend Stage IV will do the trick.No need to go with a CM 850 kit or similar as you wont have any use for it.As for the DTA/Emerald...

My advice is to source an ME-7 harness + cluster from a late 2001 B5 and use a Unitronic/Eurodyne 870cc file for that 3076R (room to grow in the future).Would sure beat doing the standalone swap.

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LOL that picture was just to show how close it all is inside the 058. I have obviously cleared the walls now.

Back to this cryo thing. Is this required in MikeyBoys TDI because of the high boost in a diesel? They do have higher peak cylinder pressures as standard and high compression ratios when compared to petrol engines. So Is this required for a petrol engine? Cryo treatment at £650 is expensive. I do understand the benefits of doing this but where do you draw the line, I don't have endless cash.

Back at INA, would the ME-7 swap require a MAF to run? Not sure this would be easier than making a loom from scratch, all the drive by wire stuff sounds like a ball ache, wires don't scare me so I can knock up a good loom when I put my mind to it! Im just lazy. I have looked at loads of aftermarket ECU's and although likely be more of pain to install and get tuned, im sure in the longterm it would be the better option. The lugnuts ECU is tempting as are the 034 Motorsport EFI units.

As for the clutch, what are my options if i was to consider doing the 01E gearbox conversion at a later date, is there a clutch I could use on both the 01E & 01A? As i have it i would need the driveshafts, propshaft, diff, gearbox, front subframe, selector rods and hub carriers. What else would I need? Thing is I have been thinking more and more about Stage 2 a 12V VR6 motor with an even bigger turbo which would need the 01E. Just trying to plan my options for future stuff hence the reason for the Standalone set up. Any advise is appreciated

Here are some before & after lowering the suspension pics



Before



After

Only very subtle but it has made a difference. The different angle between photo's doesn't help.

Mikey Don't get me wrong I certainly wasn't doubting your methods, I was quite intrigued by the idea and have read about the benefits of cryo treatment, I may get a quote for the block & head as you've suggested.

Byzan A4 are you sure that the 6 speed out of a B5 S4 can use the same clutch set up used on the standard 5 speed quattro item out of the B5 A4? I was pretty sure they were different.

devonmikeyboy said:

Thats OK mate very few people seem to do any Cryo treatment to there engines and this is the first time i have tried an entire engine/gearbox treatment. This is my third engine and 6th turbo i have tried plus this conversion will be the last engine work i do to this car so i want it to last. How many miles do petrol cars running three times standard power plus that are used every day last before a rebuild ? That is a genuine question out of interest not having a go.

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I couldn't possibly answer you to be honest, there are alot of variables to consider. I would be happy to rebuild every 50,000 miles or so, but who knows how long it will last. I suspect the ECU & tune will be crucial for this set up.

Three engines & 6 turbos though, now that's dedication for you.