Honda S2000

amoffat · Mar 3, 2003

Well, I got the car at 11am this morning and the smile hasn't left my face yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Its great. It s yellow with black leather, may sound a bit minging, but everyone who has seen it thinks the colour is fantastic. My only reservation about the colour would be that it attracts way too much attention. Everyone looks, which is pretty cool, but then you get the odd verbal abuse for no reason /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Had the top down at lunch time, had a cruise round Nottingham. Took it on the ring road and gave it a caning /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifWOW it is soooo fast, not that much faster than the S3 to 60 (a few tenths) but after that, well f*ck me its good. 6000rpm, and it kicks the crap out of you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, you want to change up at 7ish, but keep it floored to 8 and half and its great.

The torque is better than I expected, and I actually found myself in 6th gear at 55 mph, and its was pulling quite nicely. I know there has been a change in the 2002/3 model, torque wise, being available lower down the rev range.

The hood is fantastic, it goes up and down very quickly and is easy to do. No ****** space for anything, so I will spec a CD Changer I think.

This is only the first day, I and I have 6 to go /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif, so I will update you all. I am driving to Leeds tomorrow and to Hemel Hempstead on Friday, so some nice journeys to stretch its legs.

Tried a standing start, dropped clutch at 6k and it wasn't good /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif No wheel spin, just clutch slip then a terrible burning smell /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif, don't think I will try that again in a hurry.

Drystone · Mar 4, 2003

Sounds like you're going to be having some fun Andy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Would you go for the yellow? I'd probably go for the metallic grey type colour and spec the red leather for the interior. Might cut down the amount of jealousy from other road users /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

Don't know if you saw 'Wrong Car, Right Car' last night but one of the cars driven was a yellow S2000, the guy driving it seemed to enjoy himself but he went for a Morgan in the end though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif. He got a good deal on the Honda though, the dealer would have sold him the GT model for the same price as the standard car.

Surprised that it bogged down after dumping the clutch at 6000rpm, especially after seeing people doing doughnuts in an S2000 a few times on the telly.

Look forward to hearing the road test report later in the week. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Christian

Mark · Mar 5, 2003

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still not so sure, I've been bitten by the Audi quality thing, and I have to decide bewteen rawness and all out power over solidity, refineness and build quality. I am 50:50 split, still got the rest of the week to go and I'm going to enjoy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Build quality is excellent, but I know exactly what you mean about refinement, after an Audi, anything Japanese just seems a bit....plasticky. It's something I got used to though, but everyones levels of acceptable are different. I guess you can't have everything for 26k....

[ QUOTE ]
I really want to see a Silverstone one with red seats and red dash, think it could be cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres a meet coming up just south of Solihull and I'm pretty sure there'll be a Silverstone/Full red there if you want to drop by, I'm sure you'll be made welcome.

Christian, doesn't seem long ago does it, and tes, after the engine and gearbox of the S2000, everything else seems too tame (unless someone can find me a Ferrari or a Zonda for 26k and the same running costs as the S

)

jamesa · Mar 6, 2003

[ QUOTE ]
S3 Moff said:
James, have you gone from a S2000 to an S3? If you have, what are your thoughts on going from the Honda to the S3, what do you miss and what do you like?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't own the S2000, it was only a weekend fling /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The engine rocks, the driving is great fun... but it's a much rawer experience than the S3. The cabin, even the damn roof mechanism requires you to manually clip it up. Another problem is that coming in at 6'4, the S2000 felt a little claustrophobic for me. Read: I felt like I was driving a matchbox car /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif That's just me, anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

On a warm dry sunny Sunday I don't think you'll get many better cars, until you get up into Boxster territory. On a cloudy wet Monday, I'd take the S3 every time. Quattro, nice interior, torquier, can carry luggage (and four people), much more pleasant inside when the weather's crap (and there's a sunroof for when it's not!)... I don't know, the other thing is that there's a traction control system you can turn off when you want some fun in the S3, but there's no traction system to turn on in the S2000 when you don't want fun to creep up behind you and firmly whack you on the head. I can imagine being caught out on a wet/greasy road in the S2000 when you least expected it. That rear end can get very, very happy I noticed in the short time I was driving the Honda.

I guess it boils down to whether you want a "weekend" car that's ok for use during the week, or a week car that's pretty good for the weekend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

And remember, I'm writing this in Australia; your weather tips the argument even further...

Still, they're both great cars (and both look good too, IMO); if I was after a 2nd car in that price range, it would be up the top of my list.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

-- james

Drystone · Mar 6, 2003

Andy,

Sorry to be practical but how big is the boot? Could you fit a 17" monitor and a tower PC in it for example. Just thinking about the implications of me having one as I occasionally need to transport bits of IT kit between offices.

Cheers,

Christian

Mark · Mar 6, 2003

Christian, surprisingly big. And even bigger if you remove the polystrene-packed toolkit from the well in the bottom. Spare wheel is a space-saver and packs in behind the drivers seat so it doesn't take up any boot space.
I would say you probably could get your kit in there, but you'd have to check first....

James, I think the answer is that it's a sports car, with all that implies. We have a Passat for the boring stuff so when I wanted a replacement for my A3 I started looking for something impractical and fun to drive. The S2000 was never really meant as a daily driver, Mandy and I work for the same company so we can commute together, but we use it far more than the Passat, even in the rain. I think you just have to decide whether you can accept the limitations that having a sportscar imposes. if it was my only car, I probably would not have chosen it, but having had one for a year, I wouldn't be without one now, even if it was my only car.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1luvu.gif

amoffat · Mar 6, 2003

I am actually really surprised how much boot space there is, and putting the top down doesn't affect it. If I needed to lug stuff around, I would use the gf's car (it will be the S3).

I am not overly worried about running it day to day. I think I will get sick of it, but then I will get the roadster thing out my system, go back to a *normal* car again.

I have been driving around today around Notts in a sparkling clean bright yellow topless S2000 and its quite a buzz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile_smoking.gif. I did get the backend out on dry smooth tarmac and it was a little scary /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I came off a roundabout, accelerated hard and it skipped out momentarily with no warning and then straightened itself.

I will be doing 300 miles tomorrow in it, so it will help things along. I am hoping for good weather this weekend for some *fun* driving.

I am more 70:30 towards getting one of these beasts now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Drystone · Mar 7, 2003

The S2000 is looking more attractive all the time. Fast as f*ck, gorgeous to look at, open top, exciting to drive and a reasonable sized boot. I reckon it's a done deal in your mind Moff, am I correct? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Roll on next April (due a new car then). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Can't wait to start test driving replacement cars /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif.

Christian

jamesa · Mar 9, 2003

[ QUOTE ]
S3 Moff said:
I meant with Silverstone silver, not yellow! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I guessed that's what you meant, but it's not how it read /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

-- james

AL_B · Mar 10, 2003

[ QUOTE ]
Mark said:

Once the limit has been reached in a FWD car, lifting off the throttle is usually enough to get you out of anything serious (be honest, haven't you ever gone into a corner a little too fast and had to lift off?). In a RWD can, lifting off mid-corner is the singular most common cause of accidents, especially it seems, in the S2000. Another common problem is that when the back end moves, people panic and over-correct, thus starting a fishtailing motion which it is difficult to recover from (the best way is actually to let go of the wheel).
Don Palmer gave me a huge amount of confidence in the S2000, a day spent with him teaches you not to panic when the rear steps out (I didn't think I paniced at all until I spent the day with him, but I did, and totally over corrected making the situation far worse), well worth the money...

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark,

Hang on a sec, both skid pan sessions I have been on have taught me that if you want to stop oversteer in a RWD car, as soon as you feel the back-end go, you should lift-off, and apply the appropriate amount of opposite lock.

If you want to keep the back-end out a little, adjust the throttle to the appropriate amount, and apply appropriate amount of opposite lock. And try and hold it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Difficult to say the least! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Are you saying that either the above is wrong, or that its just a no-no with the S2000? Or are you actually talking about lift-off over steer i.e. car was cornering in a balanced manner, people lif-off (say to avoid something), back-end steps out and swings round.

Cheers

AL

amoffat · Mar 10, 2003

Its been a mixed time with the S2000, and I am looking forward to getting back into my S3 tomorrow and seeing what it is like to drive again.

Friday was a real nightmare in the S2000, drove up the M1 in torrential rain which was really scary, 45mph in the inside lane at some points! No moments, but it did feel like I was driving on ice.

Yesterday (Sunday) was a different matter, what fun we had. Drove all the country roads from Notts to Chester field, up through the peaks, on the way back stopping at Bakewell and then all the minor roads to Derby and back to Notts. WHAT FUN! Some of the roads were so empty and open, it was easy to start pushing the car. No scary moments, just pure fun and phenomenal brakes (unlike the S3), the car is on rails going around corners. Top down fun all day, and a whole lot of smiles. This is what the S2000 is made for IMO.

I did manage to find some time on Saturday, in the wet, to do some 180s and a few attempted 360s in an abandoned car park hehehe.

Still unsure, the nice warm days will probably easily make up for the wet ones, but fuel consumption was quite a lot worse than the S3, when pushing on. End of the week, I will decide.

Drystone · Mar 10, 2003

Fully take your point Mark. I guess I already knew the hazards of a powerful RWD car but that thread really hit it home. I'm not criticising the car, I think they're great but the thread just made me think that knowing how I like to drive, the miles I do and, most importantly, my level of skill then maybe I'd be better off with a 'foolproof' FWD or 4WD car.

For someone such as yourself though who has invested time and money in improving his level of skill to such a point where you are confident to handle such a car then anything else would be slightly boring.

Cheers,

Christian

amoffat · Mar 10, 2003

Christian,

The RWD thing is not so bad. IMO the differences between ths S3 and the S2000 are:

1. Dry - S2k Way more fun, grip and enjoyment. RWD is so much nicer to drive.

2. Wet - Yes, the S2k can be dangerous if you are really stoopid, but be sensible and wait for those dry days, as they will be so much more rewarding.

Perfect solution - own both, and have the S2k for the dry days.

I have not been of a professional driving course, I may consider it, if I go forward with the Honda, but it's not essential. I'll use the car for everyday driving and I am not worried about driving the car in adverse weather conditions. It just becomes more obvious, that you should alter your driving style to suit the conditions. I don't really do this in the S3.

amoffat · Mar 10, 2003

Got back in the S3 tonight and did 20 or so miles. Big difference between the 2 cars (obviously /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif).

First things that I noticed were the gearbox and lifeless steering /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I didn't realise that these were so obvious. The quality of my car was lurvley /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The biggest surprise was the engine. Yes, not as frantic and so easy and effortless to drive quickly. I did keep revving it too far though, must be too used to 9000rpm now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif. At times I actually felt like the S3 was faster than the S2k, but that it due to the low down torque IMO. Once the S2k has got going, I think it is fractionally faster, but not by a lot. I would love to see a head to head /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Overall, I think that my order will be going in for the S2k, some subject to the quote and colour choice (another thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif). But if it were a straight choice between the two cars, as a main car, the S3 would win every time. I'm just glad that I will be able to drive both /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile_smoking.gif

amoffat · Mar 11, 2003

Its ordered /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif
Click here for more info

Moresauce · Mar 12, 2003

Your deserting the S3! I think the silver is a better move than the yellow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Drystone · Mar 12, 2003

Moresauce,

He's keeping the S3 as well. Alright for some /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.

Christian

amoffat · Mar 12, 2003

[ QUOTE ]
Moresauce said:
Your deserting the S3! I think the silver is a better move than the yellow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I would never leave the S3 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Its my baby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1luvu.gif well, second to the gf of course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

noodle · Mar 12, 2003

Woo Hoo /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, know the feelin', just waiting to pick up my S3, and it's bloo9y killing me with anticipation.

When are you expecting to take delivery?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif

amoffat · Mar 12, 2003

12th May /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dancing.gif Better be a hot 'un /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Mark · Mar 13, 2003

[ QUOTE ]
AL B said:

Mark,

Hang on a sec, both skid pan sessions I have been on have taught me that if you want to stop oversteer in a RWD car, as soon as you feel the back-end go, you should lift-off, and apply the appropriate amount of opposite lock.

If you want to keep the back-end out a little, adjust the throttle to the appropriate amount, and apply appropriate amount of opposite lock. And try and hold it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Difficult to say the least! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Are you saying that either the above is wrong, or that its just a no-no with the S2000? Or are you actually talking about lift-off over steer i.e. car was cornering in a balanced manner, people lif-off (say to avoid something), back-end steps out and swings round.

Cheers

AL

[/ QUOTE ]

Al, sorry about the late reply, been out of the country...

If you feel a RWD car losing traction at the back, lifting off will generally make it worse.
the reason the back end is sliding is that the tyres have used up all their 'grip' (they have exceeded their slip angle), the 'grip is generated because the tyre's rubber is being pressed on to the surface of the road by the weight of the car. By lifting off, you are pitching the car forwards, shifting it's centre of gravity further forwards - more weight is now over the front wheels and, guess what, less over the back wheels.
So - you started out with a loss of traction due to the tyres running out of lateral grip, you took some of the weight off those tyres so they have less potential for grip and you have now made what was a slight twitch or gentle drift into something more dramatic. This is why people coming from FWD, where lifting off increases grip in understeer, come to grief with RWD cars.

BTW - congrats Moff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

Honda S2000

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