Performance excess.

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holly35

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My next door neighbour recently had the use of his friends BMW M6, also includes an R8 and BMW M5. I had a quick spin in it and found its performance quite frightening.Its sheer size and power is, totally unsuitable for our roads in the UK.It also struggled to put down all its power on the road and felt to rise up and leave the road surface and waver around trying to maintain grip.
With this in mind it suggests that,really its complete over kill in this country.Ok in Germany etc but totally wasted (and dangerous) in this country.Have manufacturers now exceeded the performance/against road quality in this country at least.
Glad i had a run in it prior to my Chinese carry out!
 
I don't really understand the thread. If it was on an environmental basis then I might.

You could argue that anything that has more than the least powerful, most economical car in the world is overkill.
Is any of it really required?
No.

But we work hard, pay our money and make our choices and long may that continue and long may manufacturers offer those excesses and luxuries. There are many brilliant roads for driving in Great Britain.
Life would be very boring without excess and I doubt you live without many excesses and non required luxuries, if you did you wouldn't have an Audi........

Out of interest what car have you bought?
 
You live in Scotland which has some of the best roads in the UK. It's the perfect place to enjoy cars like those.

They're not really that big and you don't have to use all the power all the time.
 
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Holly, have you ever ridden a motorbike? A modern 600cc sportsbike could eat one of those aforementioned cars for breakfast in terms of straight line acceleration and that doesn't even mention stuff like the 1000cc big bikes (BMW S1000rr etc).

I used to own a 911 turbo and yes it's fast, but not as fast as the bikes I have owned and own now.
 
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leosayer1 said:
You live in Scotland which has some of the best roads in the UK. It's the perfect place to enjoy cars like those.

They're not really that big and you don't have to use all the power all the time.
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Scotland might have amazing roads but the condition of them is another matter!!

As for the OP, it could be argued any car that exceeds 70mph is too fast for our roads as that is the maximum speed we can drive at!
 
Accelerators can be used at partial throttle not just foot to the floor. Having too much power isn't really a problem - you don't have to use it.
 
CraigI said:
I don't really understand the thread. If it was on an environmental basis then I might.

You could argue that anything that has more than the least powerful, most economical car in the world is overkill.
Is any of it really required?
No.

But we work hard, pay our money and make our choices and long may that continue and long may manufacturers offer those excesses and luxuries. There are many brilliant roads for driving in Great Britain.
Life would be very boring without excess and I doubt you live without many excesses and non required luxuries, if you did you wouldn't have an Audi........

Out of interest what car have you bought?
Click to expand...

fiat 500
 
LOL, this is funny! I test drove a M6 in November, it was totally epic, too much? No way!

My new Fireblade SP would kill it in a straight line.
 
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Silky-S3 said:
LOL, this is funny! I test drove a M6 in November, it was totally epic, too much? No way!
this was a simple comparison with performance against road quality .I just dont think many roads are of sufficient quality in the UK to support cars of this performance capability.
Come on ,you dont buy an M6 or R8 and doddle at 60 mph,and if you do i dont believe you!
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Itguy said:
Holly, have you ever ridden a motorbike? A modern 600cc sportsbike could eat one of those aforementioned cars for breakfast in terms of straight line acceleration and that doesn't even mention stuff like the 1000cc big bikes (BMW S1000rr etc).

I used to own a 911 turbo and yes it's fast, but not as fast as the bikes I have owned and own now.
Click to expand...

Will have you posted pics of your bike up on site yet?

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/genera...ikers-show-off-your-wheels-4.html#post2139647
 
Had to get rid of a 6 series twin turbo diesel. Meh, it wouldn't hold a straight linewith any significant power. If people want it, fine, but the car wasn't the better for it. The 6 series was the biggest small car I have been in (and I've had an Aston Rapide).

It just doesn't fit on UK roads, so not sure how you can enjoy it. Size is more important than power in my experience (sounds like some sort of innuendo)

I think people like to know it's there - its all physiological.
 
"It also struggled to put down all its power on the road and felt to rise up and leave the road surface and waver around trying to maintain grip"
Any car can be dangerous, usually not the car's fault though?
 
Itguy said:
Holly, have you ever ridden a motorbike? A modern 600cc sportsbike could eat one of those aforementioned cars for breakfast in terms of straight line acceleration and that doesn't even mention stuff like the 1000cc big bikes (BMW S1000rr etc).
Click to expand...

Near where I live are several roads that are popular with (motor) bikers. The only problem is they tend to ride these roads with a total disregard for anyone else who may be using the same road. A number of time I have come round a corner or sharp-bend only to find one of these particular bikers on my side of the road and only my brakes and the bikes manoeuvrability have prevented a head on crash. If it ever does happen I think I know who will come off worse. Why do they do it.

Several of the areas I go to in Germany, the Eifel Mountains area for example, are very popular with German bikers, but I have never had any problems with them. They tend to ride in groups and ride properly with due regard for other traffic. Yes they overtake me very quickly but only when it's sensible to do so.
 
woollyjoe said:
Had to get rid of a 6 series twin turbo diesel. Meh, it wouldn't hold a straight linewith any significant power. If people want it, fine, but the car wasn't the better for it. The 6 series was the biggest small car I have been in (and I've had an Aston Rapide).

It just doesn't fit on UK roads, so not sure how you can enjoy it. Size is more important than power in my experience (sounds like some sort of innuendo)

I think people like to know it's there - its all physiological.
Click to expand...

I think this might be it. I like to know that my s3 can overtake most things on the road if I wanted it to, but 9 times out of 10 I just trundle along behind on ACC.

It is psychological I think.
 
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h5djr said:
Near where I live are several roads that are popular with (motor) bikers. The only problem is they tend to ride these roads with a total disregard for anyone else who may be using the same road. A number of time I have come round a corner or sharp-bend only to find one of these particular bikers on my side of the road and only my brakes and the bikes manoeuvrability have prevented a head on crash. If it ever does happen I think I know who will come off worse. Why do they do it.

Several of the areas I go to in Germany, the Eifel Mountains area for example, are very popular with German bikers, but I have never had any problems with them. They tend to ride in groups and ride properly with due regard for other traffic. Yes they overtake me very quickly but only when it's sensible to do so.
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Agreed - I have no idea why but bikers seem to insist on tailgating you before they overtake, and don't seem to understand the concept of solid white no-overtaking lines either.
 
cemerson said:
Agreed - I have no idea why but bikers seem to insist on tailgating you before they overtake, and don't seem to understand the concept of solid white no-overtaking lines either.
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Totally agree and I'm proud to say that I'm not one of those types of bikes who rides with no regard. I'm also a cyclist and yes, I do stop for traffic lights and don't ride on pavements.

I see loads of lunatic riding of motorbikes giving us all a bad name.
 
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The whole point of this thread was to highlight the trade off with roads,and excessive performance ,be it car ,bike,lorry! Really high performance cars/bikes etc does encourage faster ,possibly more dangerous driving.A faster car does not make a better driver :weight_lift2: (nor does a fatter wallet make the person choosing the car a better driver,no offence to good responsible drivers here)
I hasten to add i was a passenger in the M6 and not a driver,which made it even more disconcerting.:racer:
Really high Performance cars are wasted in the UK.Although i can see their value in Germany and the like where money has been invested to provide quality roads etc.
 
I do agree with that last statement and that's partially why I got rid of my 911 turbo and swapped it for a lotus Exige S. The 911 was boring to drive on uk roads at legal speeds, whereas the lotus felt alive at any speed.
 
holly35 said:
The whole point of this thread was to highlight the trade off with roads,and excessive performance ,be it car ,bike,lorry! Really high performance cars/bikes etc does encourage faster ,possibly more dangerous driving.A faster car does not make a better driver :weight_lift2: (nor does a fatter wallet make the person choosing the car a better driver,no offence to good responsible drivers here)
I hasten to add i was a passenger in the M6 and not a driver,which made it even more disconcerting.:racer:
Really high Performance cars are wasted in the UK.Although i can see their value in Germany and the like where money has been invested to provide quality roads etc.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt in my eyes that driving any car with a bit of performance, even my previous 2.0TDI-170 was a much more enjoyable experience in Germany than in the UK. Even if you don't take in to account the section of de-restricted Autobahn their 'normal' and country roads are far better quality and well maintained. Just the white lines at the edge of almost every road make a big difference, especially at night. I'm looking forward to taking my new 2.0TDI-184 quattro to Germany in a couple of monthes time. For anyone who has never driven in Germany it's a real eye opener on how things should be done.

One other thing that I know a lot of people will probably disagree with that I like about most continental roads is the lack of 'cats eyes'. It means than you can change lanes smoothly without the 'crashing noise' created by them. The white lines tend to be very well maintained which to me makes them unnecessary.
 
holly35 said:
The whole point of this thread was to highlight the trade off with roads,and excessive performance ,be it car ,bike,lorry! Really high performance cars/bikes etc does encourage faster ,possibly more dangerous driving.A faster car does not make a better driver :weight_lift2: (nor does a fatter wallet make the person choosing the car a better driver,no offence to good responsible drivers here)
I hasten to add i was a passenger in the M6 and not a driver,which made it even more disconcerting.:racer:
Really high Performance cars are wasted in the UK.Although i can see their value in Germany and the like where money has been invested to provide quality roads etc.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. How do you know how a high performance/supercar takes to the Great British roads until you drive one on them?
I also wouldn't necessarily categorise the M6 as high performance, it's a luxury cruiser with a bit of grunt.

God help your opinion if you are ever a passenger in something with a real performance package, the balance between power and handling is key to true performance and something with that package will drive much better than a M6 which is a bit of a barge with straight line oomph.

I had almost an hour driving a R8 and then 45 mins in a 997 Turbo over in Oban and, despite the Scottish weather (rain), the driving experience was glorious as were the roads. You don't have to drive these cars at illegal speeds to get them either.
I'll have a R8 one day, once the mortgage is paid off - an everyday supercar.

There is a true sense of occasion with these kind of cars and that's the draw for some, marry that with some incredible engines and handling and there is a package that will always be of interest to many in the UK.

The roads in Britain are there if you know where to go (and you don't have to go too far to find them), we are also not constrained to stay within the boundaries of the island.

So get out and drive these cars on good roads then tell me there's no place for them in the UK.
 
CraigI said:
Nonsense. How do you know how a high performance/supercar takes to the Great British roads until you drive one on them?
I also wouldn't necessarily categorise the M6 as high performance, it's a luxury cruiser with a bit of grunt.

God help your opinion if you are ever a passenger in something with a real performance package, the balance between power and handling is key to true performance and something with that package will drive much better than a M6 which is a bit of a barge with straight line oomph.

I had almost an hour driving a R8 and then 45 mins in a 997 Turbo over in Oban and, despite the Scottish weather (rain), the driving experience was glorious as were the roads. You don't have to drive these cars at illegal speeds to get them either.
I'll have a R8 one day, once the mortgage is paid off - an everyday supercar.

There is a true sense of occasion with these kind of cars and that's the draw for some, marry that with some incredible engines and handling and there is a package that will always be of interest to many in the UK.

The roads in Britain are there if you know where to go (and you don't have to go too far to find them), we are also not constrained to stay within the boundaries of the island.

So get out and drive these cars on good roads then tell me there's no place for them in the UK.
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I speak as i found the M6,referring to its acceleration and scrambling all over the road for grip making it unstable.
I just cant understand the point of having very rare chances to explore this without a test track,and most people wouldnt drive the length of the country to find a nice piece of road....
Many people who own these never leave the confides of urban sprawl, driving in built up areas with 30/40mph speed limits.I see these all the time in Aberdeen stuck in traffic between lorries crawling along at 10mph.
Of course when you do make it onto a nice country road ,you can then "open her up" to 60 mph. :weight_lift2:

Try anything more ,will attract the attention of :busted_cop:, points :banghead: then possibly a ban, leading to...:Flush:
570 BHP does not = 60 MPH.:haha:
 
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I'm sorry. I can't agree with one comment about the M6 not being a performance car - The M6 is a performance car. When i hear that, I feel that people are losing perspective.

There are many types of performance cars, an M6 is designed to go round a race track and drive on the road.
 
arad85 said:
Really???? Have I been doing it wrong for the past 32 years?
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No mate your spot on!

I was out yesterday In my m3 and another one nearly exactly the same pulled up next to me..... At which point launch control was used by both of us when lights hit green , massive smiles for a long time after as we went different ways, you can never have enough power it's a fact ;-)

Sean
 
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s33nyboy12 said:
No mate your spot on!

I was out yesterday In my m3 and another one nearly exactly the same pulled up next to me..... At which point launch control was used by both of us when lights hit green , massive smiles for a long time after as we went different ways, you can never have enough power it's a fact ;-)

Sean
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..how tiresome.
 
holly35 said:
My next door neighbour recently had the use of his friends BMW M6, also includes an R8 and BMW M5. I had a quick spin in it and found its performance quite frightening.Its sheer size and power is, totally unsuitable for our roads in the UK.It also struggled to put down all its power on the road and felt to rise up and leave the road surface and waver around trying to maintain grip.
With this in mind it suggests that,really its complete over kill in this country.Ok in Germany etc but totally wasted (and dangerous) in this country.Have manufacturers now exceeded the performance/against road quality in this country at least.
Glad i had a run in it prior to my Chinese carry out!
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Don't agree.

If you know what you are doing and are experienced with driving these sort of cars they can be very capable. Not sure what UK road conditions have to do with it either. In fact not sure what the point of this thread is for in the 8V section....
 
A car that scares the crap out of you everytime you drive it?...sounds perfect to me:drool:
 
What was the point in you going out in these cars holly35, you seem like a right miserable git......I've only seen a few of your posts and they are all negative or political b.s

I don't think this car forum is for you , we are all helpful and majority happy car lovers.

Sean
 
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s33nyboy12 said:
What was the point in you going out in these cars holly35, you seem like a right miserable git......I've only seen a few of your posts and they are all negative or political b.s

I don't think this car forum is for you , we are all helpful and majority happy car lovers.

Sean
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And one where we share and accept that others might have a different opinion?
 
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cuke2u said:
And one where we share and accept that others might have a different opinion?
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That goes without saying.................
This particular thread just got a bit tedious as to sum it up, British roads are great to drive around at the right time , the BMW m6 and m5 are awesome, and the audi r8 is a brilliant car.
 
If it is tedious to you then maybe, as just some friendly advice, just ignore it?
 
Forums are the one place people can say what they feel without fear of watching what we say. So Holly likes to be a bit down on people, but I bet they like the interaction. So it's all good. There is no tone when we write on these, so all I can say is to not make it personal.

Back to summing up, roads are amazing to drive at night but not country lanes (bit hairy), uk roads are also crap, cars today have more capability than most of us have the skill to use, but it's nice for us to know it can because there is nothing like a little bit of scaring ourselves to get the heart racing.

BTW, if anyone doesn't like any of their performance cars that they don't class as performance, PM me and I can help take me off your hands because I'd much prefer to be stuck in London traffic going nowhere with 500bhp than 100bhp. Just the inner child.
 
Oh, and I think the real issue is the size of cars. I think cars are too big for the road, more than the power thing. Too often on a country road I'm breathing in as other big cars drive by. But my preference is to
Make the roads bigger.
 
Not sure on the performance side of things, but the size of many cars such as an M6 or a R8 would put me off enjoying them on UK roads.

Last weekend had a fun drive from the M6 to Hawes along the A684. A really nice twisty road that the S3 handled well, the engine and gear box along with the quattro really had a fun time. Still had a be a little bit restrained, twisty roads and other road users result in a bit of care needing to be taken.

I can fully understand why people buy cars like an m6 and an R8. Often less likely for the full on driving, but knowing they can have a blast if they want to on the right bit of road.

Having driven an R8, its got stunning acceleration and road handling, but also really easy to drive around town. Still far to wide for my liking for an everyday car.
 
The car in itself is a vehicle; the end.

The thing I find disconcerting is that any ****** can gain access to one with very limited road experience and go and create havoc. The phrase power is nothing without control is often hideously overlooked on forums.

If you know how to drive, have the appropriate training / experience then any car can be safe / fun as long as the road conditions support this.

I'm about to buy a 350bhp car then mod it as close to 500 as I can. How often will I use it..... Probably not 5% of the time! maybe not even 2%, but when the right road presents itself I will press a switch and take my chances. The exhilaration of driving a car well on a challenging road isn't about maximum speeds but about judging where you feel comfortable, in control, and not a risk to others. Whether that road is in Germany, Wales, Mongolia; I couldn't care less!

Therefore I don't think the car is the issue, it's the capability and presence of mind of the driver that's more important in my view.
 
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