Pano roof exploded

number3

number3

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Gents a few of you have been members far longer than me , does anyone recollect the below?????

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-...i-a3-2-0-tdi-sport-sun-roof-just-explode.html

This has happened to my car yesterday , all windows closed , driving about 60 on flat dual carriage way , the loudest crack / bang / honestly like a gun shoot, the pano sun roof explodes , almost lost it on road , glass everywhere !

many issues later as for some reason audi's computers can't tell difference between a sunroof or a whole roof made of glass , my car is with Audi and I'm in an A4!!!

Has anyone heard of this, I've seen Q5's have had a recall ? But not A3's?? Any help greatly appreciated, as at the moment I'm not sure even when fixed I want the thing back , if it's a fault ??

cheers
 
That's not good news for folks with cars with Panoramic Sun roofs or others like me waiting for cars with it spec'd. Hope nobody injured, any known cause?
 
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Wow, never heard of that before, and I picked up my new Saloon with sunroof last week. Hope you get it fixed ok and they tell you it won't happen again! Let us know how you get on.
 
That is seriously concerning.

Glad you ok and no one hurt !

Would major reassurance on safety of the pano roof after that.
 
You certainly don't need a glass shower when out on a drive do you!! Glad I didn't spec it!!
Hope it all gets sorted soon for you
 
Had you had it tinted by any chance?

(not sure it would have exploded if that was the case)
 
Hope no injuries from flying glass, and hope it does not happen to mine.
 
I know the windscreen on the A3 is made from laminated glass but are the side and rear windows made from laminated or toughened glass.
 
This is on an 8P, which has quite a different Pan roof to the 8V. I heard about people having issues (even the likes of Golf 6's and Polo'swith pano roofs). My cousin even had his explode on a Mini Cooper S.

I believe that the 8v pan roofs have been sorted from what I hear, hence the 2/3 glass design and metal for the last 1/3 Lets hope it actually IS sorted and we have nothing to worry about!!
 
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B8on19s said:
I believe that the *v pn roofs have been sorted from what I hear, hence the 2/3 glass design and metal for the last 1/3 Lets hope it actually IS sorted and we have nothing to worry about!!
Click to expand...

The existence of this thread suggests not... The thread he linked to was for the 8P, but this one is an 8V if the signature is anything to go by!
 
cemerson said:
The existence of this thread suggests not... The thread he linked to was for the 8P, but this one is an 8V if the signature is anything to go by!
Click to expand...

Doh!! Misread and referred to the linked thread only...damn!!! Ok, first 8V of exploding sunroof i heard of..
 
Sorry no pics, Audi road side assistance took a few, but wasn’t really top of my list, but appeared to blow out from inside!!

Sunroof comes tinted as standard.

And yes, just linked the other thread as was similar to what happened to me, even though older model.

No luckily nobody was hurt, was in car on my own, ( all I’ve thought about is what if kids had been with me !!! ) and the shade was closed , but that didn’t stop tiny shards flying everywhere!! Was driving on a flat duel carriageway, having just come off a roundabout, so was just accelerating , speed was about 40/50, all windows were closed, though i had had my side window open about 20/30 minutes before. Then seemed a bomb had gone off in car, have had windows go due to stones, but this seemed totally different , was so loud , and pressure in ears. Not proud to say panicked and swerved across road as though something had hit me, well not sure really what was going on, ended on grass verge.

After calming down, rung Audi assistance , after their initially confusion of why I was ringing for a sunroof????? They understood the term panoramic!!! To be fair once they understood they dealt very quickly, but what they couldn’t do, due to the system, was organise a car to be brought out!!!. Apparently under normal accident procedure, if there is one, they can send a courtesy car out at the same time as car being picked up by road side assistance. Not in this case, i hate to say it ….. but computer side no.

Was told to ring Audi UK, as they could sort a replacement car, and yes you guessed, initially told to ring back road side assistance as “they” deal with it. Again few calls later everyone understood. But still couldn’t send car, so would have to babysit car back to dealer where one was waiting.

Now whilst this is going on and I’m calming down , I’m remembering that my car has actually been back to my dealer to fix a noisy pano roof and broken front driver’s seat. Twice in for the roof.

So at the moment car in getting fixed, and I’m waiting on response from Audi of what’s happened. Audi UK have rung every day for an update from my side, which is great, but just want a car back that i don’t think this is going to happen again.

Audi UK initially said , never heard of this, which i jumped in and said , what apart from the recall on Q5’s for this very thing???? That changed then to , just A3’s.

I’m happy to have car back, but i want answers!!! One hopefully not a fault with car and maybe just one of those things, and two, the other dealer hasn’t caused it by doing whatever they did when in to be fixed. ( have moved since buying, so it’s not currently back with original dealer )


and yes sorry mine is an 8V:(
 
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h5djr said:
I know the windscreen on the A3 is made from laminated glass but are the side and rear windows made from laminated or toughened glass.
Click to expand...

I was surprised to learn from dealer, pano roof is not laminated.!! that's a lot of glass sitting above our heads!!
 
Also guys, cheers for concerns of nobody being hurt :)
 
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Wow, strange that the glass isn't laminated.

I can only imagine that because cars aren't TOTALLY rigid, it can put a lot of stress on the glass going over certain bumps or inducing certain stresses on the car, where a metal roof would flex or bend slightly to absorb it, but not glass. You would have thought they would take this into account though and mount the glass on some semi-flexible fixings that interface with the car, but who knows?
 
Just out of interest I know you were one of the first to get the new a3 ......, what's the mileage on yours mate????

Sean
 
I nearly ordered this on my new car, now somewhat pleased that I didn't.

How's your head?

Did it actually just shatter and stay largely in situ or did it 'pop out' and fly?

You think by today's standards they'd have this sort of thing in check. Not surprised it isn't laminated as it would add quite some weight to the roof which on these large glass panels would affect handling somewhat (as centre of gravity would be elevated quite a bit).

When I think back to this thread: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/139514-amar-akoyas-a3-build-panoramic-roof-retrofit.html now it makes me shudder a bit at the prospect!

Hope you get sorted out properly; that is quite a big deal in terms of safety. Suggest a complimentary R8 experience at Silverstone might help calm your nerves ;-)
 
s33nyboy12 said:
Just out of interest I know you were one of the first to get the new a3 ......, what's the mileage on yours mate????

Sean
Click to expand...

Hey Sean , am at 45k , was high mileage at start due to job location , but will be under 60k once renew comes up next November.

The thought crossed my mind about mileage, but the warranty is up to 60k so would expect these things to be tested up to that point
 
warren_S3 said:
I nearly ordered this on my new car, now somewhat pleased that I didn't.

How's your head?

Did it actually just shatter and stay largely in situ or did it 'pop out' and fly?

You think by today's standards they'd have this sort of thing in check. Not surprised it isn't laminated as it would add quite some weight to the roof which on these large glass panels would affect handling somewhat (as centre of gravity would be elevated quite a bit).

When I think back to this thread: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/a3-s3-sportback-8p-chassis/139514-amar-akoyas-a3-build-panoramic-roof-retrofit.html now it makes me shudder a bit at the prospect!

Hope you get sorted out properly; that is quite a big deal in terms of safety. Suggest a complimentary R8 experience at Silverstone might help calm your nerves ;-)
Click to expand...

Popped out, and then started falling! Once stopped was like a raised dome with hole at the top. Shade was closed so caught most of it , but covered in little tiny shards. Heads ok lol, but honestly ears where ringing! Was really strange .
 
I'm not surprised it blew outwards. The air moving over the top of it would suck it out. Similar principle to an aircraft wing. It cold still have been triggered by something falling on it from above.
 
RossR said:
I'm not surprised it blew outwards. The air moving over the top of it would suck it out. Similar principle to an aircraft wing. It cold still have been triggered by something falling on it from above.
Click to expand...

Not totally convinced by the aircraft wing analogy , not saying you couldn't be right, just wouldn't think they would make a roof with any sort of upward lift ?

As for something hitting it, sunroof was closed which makes it seem less likely , but that's not to say something didn't fly up and fall back down smack onto roof, just the fact they had the car in to fix the roof previously , and reading how this has happened on other makes and models , just makes me want to be sure !!!
 
number3 said:
Not totally convinced by the aircraft wing analogy!
Click to expand...

Haha this is a whole completely new thread - how do planes fly

Most pilots don't really know the complete answer, and most school children are taught a pack of lies !!
 
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Yep, wing working is pretty complicated, and the thing taught to school kids is just wrong!

The wing analogy does apply here though - Bernoulli's principle says that faster moving air = lower pressure, it's just as valid on a car as on a wing.
 
Air moving with respect to what though?

The air moving under the car will be faster than the air moving over the car (splitter, smooth undertray, diffuser, spoiler) creating downforce

But I agree that the air pressure on the outside of the pano roof will be lower than the inside, assuming a roadspeed of more than say 40mph !
 
With respect to the car... the air inside the car will be at higher pressure than the air flowing over the top of the car, simple!

Air vents actually slightly exaggerate this effect as well, since air gets pumped into the car through the vents but doesn't escape all that easily, so pressure inside the car actually raises slightly above ambient pressure anyway.

Underneath the car doesn't really have anything to do with it as far as the roof is concerned!
 
veeeight said:
But I agree that the air pressure on the outside of the pano roof will be lower than the inside, assuming a roadspeed of more than say 40mph !
Click to expand...

Any speed at all (as long as you aren't travelling downwind at wind speed...) will have this affect. It doesn't just 'kick in' at higher speeds, it's there all the time, just stronger at higher speeds. Blowing gently over the top of a piece of paper demonstrates the effect quite nicely.
 
No no no you are falling for the school kids error of Bernoulli applying at all times!

The other factors is that the cabin of the car may be positively pressurised by the blowers, or negatively pressurised by the rear of the car (where the cabin air exit waffle is in the rear wing) being in a different area to the roof! So you can't just say that the roof of the car will always have lower pressure with respect to the interior of the car at any speed.

The clarification of the wing analogy is that you can't just say that the bottom of the car is irrelevant as the way the car is designed is an upside down wing, to provide negative lift. So the underside of the car will have higher airflow and lower pressure than the roof.
 
Bernoulli DOES apply at all times, it's a law of physics! The thing that people are told wrong about wings is that it's the 'longer distance' that the air has to travel that causes it to go faster, which is a load of rubbish. And that bernoulli's principle is the only thing at play, which it isn't.

veeeight said:
The clarification of the wing analogy is that you can't just say that the bottom of the car is irrelevant as the way the car is designed is an upside down wing, to provide negative lift. So the underside of the car will have higher airflow and lower pressure than the roof.
Click to expand...

The roof doesn't interface with the underside of the car (unless your pano roof is thicker than I though and actually does poke out the bottom!), therefore irrelevant in this case. The things that matter to the roof are the pockets of air in contact with the roof, which is the air above the car, and the air inside the car. Underside has nothing to do with it, and doesn't have any bearing on what happens to the roof. To the car as a whole, yes, but not the roof on its own in relation to the car.
 
Bernoulli does not apply when there is no airflow. Therefore it does not apply at all times.
I am merely being accurate (or pedantic if you like).

When you used the term "wing analogy" I asked with respect to what. Again, because to a casual observer, this can imply, especially with previous statements about the "air travelling faster over the roof" - someone can take that to mean the car being analogous to the wing, rather than inside roof/outside roof. Again, I'm merely being accurate.

An example of this misunderstanding of taking the wing analogy to mean the car can be found in post #25
Not totally convinced by the aircraft wing analogy , not saying you couldn't be right, just wouldn't think they would make a roof with any sort of upward lift ?
Click to expand...

The car, if taken as a system (easily done), is analogous to an upside down wing. Therefore the underside of the car is relevant.

The outside of the roof, taken with respect to the underside of the pano roof, can be influenced by Bernoulli, but only when there is airflow. And even in this case, it isn't always true that the outside of the roof will be in a lower pressure zone than the interior of the car.

Again, I'm being accurate (pedantic).

Edit: But this is now way off topic.
 
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veeeight said:
Bernoulli does not apply when there is no airflow. Therefore it does not apply at all times.
I am merely being accurate (or pedantic if you like).
Click to expand...

No airflow = ambient pressure. Bernoulli says this as well. It absolutely does apply! It just means you put 0 into Bernoulli's equation for v, still works. It's not accurate at all to say Bernoulli doesn't say this.

veeeight said:
When you used the term "wing analogy" I asked with respect to what. Again, because to a casual observer, this can imply, especially with previous statements about the "air travelling faster over the roof" - someone can take that to mean the car being analogous to the wing, rather than inside roof/outside roof. Again, I'm merely being accurate.
Click to expand...

You can still say 'air travelling faster over the roof' and mean with respect to the inside. I think you've assumed the rest!

veeeight said:
The car, if taken as a system (easily done), is analogous to an upside down wing. Therefore the underside of the car is relevant.
Click to expand...

Not to the roof though! I don't think anyone ever mentioned the whole car being analogous to a wing, I think you've assumed that! I certainly was only ever talking about the roof, so the underside of the car is irrelevant.

veeeight said:
The outside of the roof, taken with respect to the underside of the pano roof, can be influenced by Bernoulli, but only when there is airflow.
Click to expand...

Which there was, as stated in the original post. The car was moving.

veeeight said:
And even in this case, it isn't always true that the outside of the roof will be in a lower pressure zone than the interior of the car.
Click to expand...

Indeed, because there are other factors at play, but it certainly has a large effect.

veeeight said:
But this is now way off topic.
Click to expand...

Indeed! But it's an interesting discussion.
 
All cars have hidden vents to prevent pressue inside them from becoming to high and uncomfortable. I doubt if the pressure becomes high enough to blow out a window because your ears would become painful...
 
It's a problem in gliding - air vents mean the cockpit slightly pressurises, and this then leaks out in undesirable places such as around the canopy and wing roots. A lot of people are experimenting with air 'exhausts' now to encourage the air to leave in one (planned) place to improve performance.
 
cemerson said:
No airflow = ambient pressure. Bernoulli says this as well. It absolutely does apply! It just means you put 0 into Bernoulli's equation for v, still works. It's not accurate at all to say Bernoulli doesn't say this.
Click to expand...
I think you'll find that when v=0, there is no point talking about pressure differentials and nothing comes of the equation.


cemerson said:
Not to the roof though! I don't think anyone ever mentioned the whole car being analogous to a wing,
Click to expand...
I gave you an example above where it was easily misunderstood!

In all modern cars, there is at least one, if not two exit vents, normally situated in the lower rear 3/4. Colloquially known as a "waffle" due to its appearance.


I really really hate forum ping pong !
 
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Yeah, right

Maybe you just assumed it was you who pictured just the top of the roof/under the roof interface :p
 
If you want to think that and it ends this conversation, fine by me :p
 
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