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Thread: Diesel vs Petrol with stop/start tech.

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    Diesel vs Petrol with stop/start tech.

    My wife is looking to buy a car. We have test driven an A3 1.4 COD Stronic. The stop/start was very smooth. Engine restarts were almost instant and hardly noticeable.

    We are also looking at a Golf 1.6 TDI DSG. Every time the engine restarted it sounded just the same as an ordinary car starting. Not smooth at all.

    Is stop/start better in a petrol?

    Has anyone tested an A3 1.6 TDI Stronic?

    What is stop/start like in an A3 2.0 TDI Stronic?

    Yes, I know stop/start can be disabled, but this has to be done every journey.
    Last edited by Daz Auto; 21st November 2013 at 22:54.

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    dieseldoug's Avatar
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    I can only say the stop start on the A1 1.6, A3 2 litre and Q5 2 litre all diesels all work well as you mentioned smooth


    A3, 2.0 TDI, S-Line, 6 speed manual, Scuba Blue, S-Line suspension, heated/folding mirrors, privacy glass, fine nappa leather, heated seats, light/rain sensor pack, flat tyre indicator, Purchased and supplied by Aberdeen Audi

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    I have stop/start on my soon to be traded in Passat 1.6tdi. The moment you press the clutch in the engine is started before you even get chance to select 1st.
    Like: Amber light/clutch/1st/Green Light/Revs/Handbreak releases/Pull away. No delay to having the engine already running.
    Engine starts with an acute squark, ie not laboured.

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    Works fine on my 2.0 TDI - it vibrates the car, but I don't usually hear anything with music on. As others have selected, you won't beat it by trying to pull away before it's started - always starts very quickly! It's still warm so would be (and if you stopped long enough on a cold day for it to become a problem it'll start itself back up on its own before it does become a problem)
    Sport 2.0 TDI 150 Sportback in Scuba Blue, alcantara/leather, advanced key, audi sound system, comfort pack w/ ACC and park assist, deselect sports suspension, auto-dimming & folding door mirrors, electric lumbar support, heated seats, hold assist, non-smoking pack, side & lane assist, reversing camera, storage & luggage pack, tech pack with audi connect, tyre pressure warning, towbar, variable headlight range control, xenon light pack

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    I'd ask do you do enough mileage to warrant a diesel? The 1.4 petrol is a very good engine and will be far more refined than the gruff old 1.6 diesel...
    Now a proud owner of a A3 1.4 tfsi Saloon S-Line, 6-speed, Daytona Grey, Technology Pack, Comfort Pack, Cruise, Advanced Key, Privacy Glass, Audi Parking System Plus, Interior Lighting, Folding Door Mirrors, Light & Rain Sensor. Hold Assist.

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    I think the question/point is that the start-stop is much more noticeable on the diesel. I think this is just down to the nature of the engines, with gasseRs tending to be a bit more smooth and refined. My test drive experience confirms this. Start-stop on the 2.0 TDI I drove was very noticeable...not necessarily in a bad way, but you definitely knew it was doing its thing. On a 1.4 TFSI C.o.D. test drive it was exactly the opposite. It was so smooth that I'm still not sure whether it was actually on or not. Will find out soon, though, as we get the car next Friday!

    GS

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    I think I gave a answer that might help as the 1.6 is 'gruff and unsophisticated compared to the 1.4 petrol , at least I didn't refer to a completely different engine...
    Now a proud owner of a A3 1.4 tfsi Saloon S-Line, 6-speed, Daytona Grey, Technology Pack, Comfort Pack, Cruise, Advanced Key, Privacy Glass, Audi Parking System Plus, Interior Lighting, Folding Door Mirrors, Light & Rain Sensor. Hold Assist.

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    Now a proud owner of a A3 1.4 tfsi Saloon S-Line, 6-speed, Daytona Grey, Technology Pack, Comfort Pack, Cruise, Advanced Key, Privacy Glass, Audi Parking System Plus, Interior Lighting, Folding Door Mirrors, Light & Rain Sensor. Hold Assist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuke2u View Post
    I'd ask do you do enough mileage to warrant a diesel? The 1.4 petrol is a very good engine and will be far more refined than the gruff old 1.6 diesel...
    Over 20k a year.

    Yeah, I read that. I was just wondering if it had improved any with the new model.

    Might have to visit the dealers and see if they have a 2.0 diesel we can drive or just switch on and off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gswearengin View Post
    My test drive experience confirms this. Start-stop on the 2.0 TDI I drove was very noticeable...not necessarily in a bad way, but you definitely knew it was doing its thing. On a 1.4 TFSI C.o.D. test drive it was exactly the opposite. It was so smooth that I'm still not sure whether it was actually on or not. Will find out soon, though, as we get the car next Friday!

    GS
    That was my experience of the 1.4 also... when my wife was driving I did not notice it at all. The Golf 1.6 automatic is not smooth at all.

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    I drove the 2 litre diesel with the stop start on. I thought it was fairly smooth, a bit better than I was excepting.
    you can notice it start stop and its a diesel so is obviously its going to be a bit noisier and a bit more vibration, but certainly not a problem. I am currently driving a petrol Honda CRZ and because it,has the equivalent to about 0.3ltr. electric engine on top of the 1.5ltr. petrol engine, it starts as smoothly as it gets using the electric motor and I still didn't mind the diesel start up. I think If your in dynamic it switches it off anyway and you might be able turn off in the MMI ? If I remember reading it somewhere correctly.
    I will say that in general I am not a big fan of stop start as think is a bit of a gimmick, unless in heavy traffic a lot, I can't see it saving much fuel and like that you can choose if on in A3 as CRZ stop start is always on, just comes down to the diesel / petrol preference.
    Last edited by Fragup; 23rd November 2013 at 06:04.
    A3 sport back, Misano Red, S Line, 1.4 C.O.D. Manual, Panoramic Sunroof, Audi sound system, Folding mirrors, Interior lights pack, Non smoking, Delete Badges, Sports suspension, Hill hold & 2 year servicing & 4 year warrantee.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Fragup View Post
    I drove the 2 litre diesel with the stop start on. I thought it was fairly smooth, a bit better than I was excepting.
    you can notice it start stop and its a diesel so is obviously its going to be a bit noisier and a bit more vibration, but certainly not a problem. I am currently driving a petrol Honda CRZ and because it,has the equivalent to about 0.3ltr. electric engine on top of the 1.5ltr. petrol engine, it starts as smoothly as it gets using the electric motor and I still didn't mind the diesel start up. I think If your in dynamic it switches it off anyway and you might be able turn off in the MMI ? If I remember reading it somewhere correctly.
    I will say that in general I am not a big fan of stop start as think is a bit of a gimmick, unless in heavy traffic a lot, I can't see it saving much fuel and like that you can choose if on in A3 as CRZ stop start is always on, just comes down to the diesel / petrol preference.
    As far as I am aware there is no way, other than the switch on the dash, to switch off Start/Stop on the A3. If you switch it off it comes on again when you turn the ignition on. At the moment there does not seem to be a way of permanently switching it off using either the MMI or VCDS.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

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    The other ting about the Golf 1.6tdi is that it comes with a less sophisticated rear suspension than other models and the Audi version. This will affect the ride and the handling...
    Now a proud owner of a A3 1.4 tfsi Saloon S-Line, 6-speed, Daytona Grey, Technology Pack, Comfort Pack, Cruise, Advanced Key, Privacy Glass, Audi Parking System Plus, Interior Lighting, Folding Door Mirrors, Light & Rain Sensor. Hold Assist.

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    Battlekrapz's Avatar
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    Start/stop on the s3 is fine, works perfectly but since i hate the idea of getting the sensation of stalling at each red light i just disable it at each engine start.
    Johnnyb likes this.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    As far as I am aware there is no way, other than the switch on the dash, to switch off Start/Stop on the A3. If you switch it off it comes on again when you turn the ignition on. At the moment there does not seem to be a way of permanently switching it off using either the MMI or VCDS.
    I has just seen an item of a Golf VII GTi forum that Kufatec now make a model than can be used to permanently switch of the Start/Stop system. Here is a link: Coding interface disable start / stop MQB-40019
    Dave R (h5djr)
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    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    As far as I am aware there is no way, other than the switch on the dash, to switch off Start/Stop on the A3. If you switch it off it comes on again when you turn the ignition on. At the moment there does not seem to be a way of permanently switching it off using either the MMI or VCDS.
    thanks for letting me know, does the dynamic on drive select turn off stop start as I thought ?
    cheers
    A3 sport back, Misano Red, S Line, 1.4 C.O.D. Manual, Panoramic Sunroof, Audi sound system, Folding mirrors, Interior lights pack, Non smoking, Delete Badges, Sports suspension, Hill hold & 2 year servicing & 4 year warrantee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragup View Post
    thanks for letting me know, does the dynamic on drive select turn off stop start as I thought ?
    cheers
    No.

    If you could turn it off completely it would not achieve the same emissions and therefore road tax rating.
    A3 2.0 TDI Sportback Sport : Scuba Blue : Xenon Light Pack : Technology Pack : Audi Sound System : DAB : Hill Hold Assist : Comfort Pack....
    and Sport Suspension

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragup View Post
    I drove the 2 litre diesel with the stop start on. I thought it was fairly smooth, a bit better than I was excepting.
    you can notice it start stop and its a diesel so is obviously its going to be a bit noisier and a bit more vibration, but certainly not a problem. I am currently driving a petrol Honda CRZ and because it,has the equivalent to about 0.3ltr. electric engine on top of the 1.5ltr. petrol engine, it starts as smoothly as it gets using the electric motor and I still didn't mind the diesel start up. I think If your in dynamic it switches it off anyway and you might be able turn off in the MMI ? If I remember reading it somewhere correctly.
    I will say that in general I am not a big fan of stop start as think is a bit of a gimmick, unless in heavy traffic a lot, I can't see it saving much fuel and like that you can choose if on in A3 as CRZ stop start is always on, just comes down to the diesel / petrol preference.
    Apparently you only need engine to stop for 5 seconds to save more fuel than the restart uses.
    A3 2.0 TDI Sportback Sport : Scuba Blue : Xenon Light Pack : Technology Pack : Audi Sound System : DAB : Hill Hold Assist : Comfort Pack....
    and Sport Suspension

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    Quote Originally Posted by cuke2u View Post
    The other ting about the Golf 1.6tdi is that it comes with a less sophisticated rear suspension than other models and the Audi version. This will affect the ride and the handling...
    That is interesting, because the 1.6 Golf is far, far more comfortable than the 2.0 A3 Sportback Sport. My wife thinks so too. We are hoping that the A3 SE is as good as the Golf.

    One of the tests I have done in both cars is to drive over the cats-eyes. It was really, really uncomfortable in the Audi. Could hear them in the Golf, but barely feel them.

    I even tried the same test in my Mk6 Golf GTD with 16 inch winter tyres and the suspension set to comfort. Again the 1.6 Golf was much, much better.

    Handle better... probably. But much less comfort for normal driving on average roads.

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    If you were comparing the sport suspension on the Audi with that of the suspension of the Golf then I'm not surprised at the result and I also trust that the cars you tested had the same size wheels and tyres on them. However the ride 'quality' of a car is a matter of taste and it maybe that the non-sport suspension is better for you. Personally I prefer a harder ride that my current car with 18" wheels gives, but then I am driving the most dynamic and best handling small family hatchbacks. I am interested to see what the back to back comparison is over time. I did drive a 2.0l diesel saloon with sport suspension and although the ride was slightly harder the transmission of any 'thump' into the cabin was well supressed and not 'crashy'.
    Now a proud owner of a A3 1.4 tfsi Saloon S-Line, 6-speed, Daytona Grey, Technology Pack, Comfort Pack, Cruise, Advanced Key, Privacy Glass, Audi Parking System Plus, Interior Lighting, Folding Door Mirrors, Light & Rain Sensor. Hold Assist.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Daz Auto View Post
    That is interesting, because the 1.6 Golf is far, far more comfortable than the 2.0 A3 Sportback Sport. My wife thinks so too. We are hoping that the A3 SE is as good as the Golf.

    One of the tests I have done in both cars is to drive over the cats-eyes. It was really, really uncomfortable in the Audi. Could hear them in the Golf, but barely feel them.

    I even tried the same test in my Mk6 Golf GTD with 16 inch winter tyres and the suspension set to comfort. Again the 1.6 Golf was much, much better.

    Handle better... probably. But much less comfort for normal driving on average roads.
    I tried the 'cats-eye' test on the same piece of road when recently drove three different cars recently:

    My existing 2012 2.0TDI-170 Sportback SE - 17" 225/45 tyres - quite a thump thump noise
    2013 VW Golf VII 2.0TDI-150 Estate GT - 18" 225/40 tyres - slight noise
    2013 Audi A3 2.0TDI-150 3-door SE - 16" 205/55 tyres - hardly any noise at all

    I will be driving two other cars soon - VW Golf VII 2.0TDI-150 GT - 225/45 tyres and a VW Golf VII 2.0TDI-150 SE - 16" 205/55 tyres and I will make sure I try the same test on the same piece of road.
    Dave R (h5djr)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A3 8V 2.0 TDI-184 Sportback Sport s-tronic quattro - Silver + lots of options - my 9th A3

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    Quote Originally Posted by h5djr View Post
    I tried the 'cats-eye' test on the same piece of road when recently drove three different cars recently:

    My existing 2012 2.0TDI-170 Sportback SE - 17" 225/45 tyres - quite a thump thump noise
    2013 VW Golf VII 2.0TDI-150 Estate GT - 18" 225/40 tyres - slight noise
    2013 Audi A3 2.0TDI-150 3-door SE - 16" 205/55 tyres - hardly any noise at all

    I will be driving two other cars soon - VW Golf VII 2.0TDI-150 GT - 225/45 tyres and a VW Golf VII 2.0TDI-150 SE - 16" 205/55 tyres and I will make sure I try the same test on the same piece of road.
    The A3 Sportback Sport we drove had 225/45/R17 - same as the summer tyres on my Mk6 GTD. It felt like my car with the suspension set to sport.

    The Mk 7 Golf we are currently test driving has 205/55/R16 and standard suspension. I have told my wife that the A3 SE will have the same tyres and suspension? Therefore, it should be just as comfortable as the Golf. She is not really worried about the handling for her commute on a mix of country, B roads, A roads and dual carriageway.

    She does find my Golf GTD very uncomfortable and so do I sometimes, but it does go and handle brilliantly. Plus, great smiles per gallon

 

 

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