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Thread: Feedback from those with S3s now

  1. #161
    Toadoftoadhall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_lecht_rocks View Post
    absolutely spot on ! of course we're oing to wring the S3's neck and drive it hard. that doesn't mean we're going to travel at 155mph everywhere, but it does mean that 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears will be fully exploited. on attempting to pin apex exits u nder full throttle, the car simply refuses to hold it's line and WILL understeer. as mentioned, renault and honda have both properly prepared FWD chassis with excellent use of differentials and quality suspension set up. it's as if Audi have simply uprated the damper rate and spring #ge and slung in a 4 pot 300hp motor and hoped that the battling middle classes wouldn't notice the fact their "halo" hatchback is fundementatally flawed. in fact, i'm talking myself out of this car before i even own it. i am SERIOISLY considering cancelling the delivery because the feedback [or lack of it LOL] is negative concerning the chassis ability. when i demo'd it, i was overwhelmed by the quality of the interior, the refinement and the ride quality and underwhelmed about the understeer and wooden steering feedback , especially in greasy damp autumn conditions. if i stick with the car, i WILL definitely fit the Quaife diff and have a look at the HFA fix too. i don't want any more power, happy with the standard output, but I do expect a fast hatch to at least offer an element of driver involvement as a bloody minimum.
    Why would you order the S3 if you think its so fundamentally flawed? I just find that odd. Not that I am a race driver like you appear to be - but I know on my tests I drove the S3 fairly indeed hard and was very happy with the way it handled and turned as a road car. Perhaps I have less experience of other faster road cars as a comparison but I cannot see there is a fundamental flaw and hence don't understand why you would order such a flawed car?
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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigI View Post
    By the way, 90% of the time the S3 is perfect, just let down by the 10% of the time when you really want to take it on a B road blast it doesn't give you the confidence or feedback in the cornering. Overall I remain happy - no car is good at everything.
    Yep no car whatever price range by whatever manufacturer will fit everyones needs expectations , if you happen to find a car that suits your needs and budget and puts a smile on your face everytime you drive it you are on a winner imho

  4. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadoftoadhall View Post
    Why would you order the S3 if you think its so fundamentally flawed? I just find that odd. Not that I am a race driver like you appear to be - but I know on my tests I drove the S3 fairly indeed hard and was very happy with the way it handled and turned as a road car. Perhaps I have less experience of other faster road cars as a comparison but I cannot see there is a fundamental flaw and hence don't understand why you would order such a flawed car?
    primarily, as it comes with roof rails and this car is purely for carting bikes and skis and daily use. no other car on the market is readily available with rails, 4WD and sub 6secs to 100kmh, my required criteria. it's also small enough to fit in our garages in our winter hide-aways. hope this answers your question.
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  5. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobH_S3 View Post
    Yep you can, not sure if theres one available yet but its only a matter of time before HPA bring one out.
    could an HPA controller be fitted in conjunction with a Wavetrac / Quaife differential ?

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    I don't see why not, a front diff is for the front wheels whereas a controller is to split the power between the front and back wheels

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    Why don't they (audi) fit a t3 torsen diff to the s3/rs3 models like the ones fitted to a4 and above?

    Default 60:40 rear:front split

    Is it a space issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kanecullen89 View Post
    Why don't they (audi) fit a t3 torsen diff to the s3/rs3 models like the ones fitted to a4 and above?Default 60:40 rear:front splitIs it a space issue?
    Probably space, price, weight and fuel consumption... Anyway, it would be nice to have that. But I don't think it will ever happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadoftoadhall View Post
    Why would you order the S3 if you think its so fundamentally flawed? I just find that odd. Not that I am a race driver like you appear to be - but I know on my tests I drove the S3 fairly indeed hard and was very happy with the way it handled and turned as a road car. Perhaps I have less experience of other faster road cars as a comparison but I cannot see there is a fundamental flaw and hence don't understand why you would order such a flawed car?
    The other thing is that forums always have a bias towards what is bad, thus a 'incorrect' picture of the car can quite quickly be generated....
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    Quote Originally Posted by geefunk1978 View Post
    I for one am very happy with my S3, sure it hasn't got the 'feedback' of a Renaultsport Megane, but then again it won't fall apart and rattle like a child's toy after 6 months. At the end of the day the S3 is a premium well built sports hatch that happens to have 300bhp. The majority of us will never track our S3's so it doesn't need to handle like a race car. If you know what you're doing you can drive around understeer. On a damp road a Megane wouldn't see which way the S3 went, so be it that there isn't loads of steering feel. I would rather be sat nice and comfortable in my S3 knowing I've got Quattro when the weather turns nasty.

    Well said!!
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  11. #170
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    When I asked the question, I was told 70% torque to the front, 30% to the back under normal circumstances? I think the R8 is the opposite btw
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    I am just back from a very spirited drive around some challenging back / mountain roads. Have to say, it performed very well this morning. I think for me, the car is very in tune with the road conditions/tyres. Last week driving at 8/10ths it was to keen to understeer but the temps were way higher and the roads greasy. (I am running winter tyres). Today at 9/10ths the roads were soaking wet, still raining, and 3 degrees, and it went super well. Anyhow, just my view from the experiences I have had so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetidman View Post
    When I asked the question, I was told 70% torque to the front, 30% to the back under normal circumstances? I think the R8 is the opposite btw
    And it has always 90% front and 10% back... from what I heard. And I think it can transfer 100% if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobH_S3 View Post
    Erm the understeer isnt even that bad, ive done nearly 2k miles in mine now and the way some are talking theres no front end grip at all. Yeah there is some inherant or "safety" understeer but that can soon be dialed out with a few easy mods and a better fast road geometry setup.The conti tyres arnt great either and there not exctly designed for winter.Canceling your order because of it is ridiculous.
    To be honest, although I haven't got mine yet, I've taken two S3's out on two different occasions, and given them a decent blast and I was pretty impressed. Compared to my 200BHP FWD Scirocco, I felt it turned in pretty keenly and held the line better, with relatively minimal understeer really. I found that with 4WD cars you need to change your approach to corners. I find it best to come in fast, brake harder than you would do normally, and turn hard in, then hit the power earlier and let the 4WD traction pull you out of the apex. A bit different to RWD where you can come in faster but have to wait a little longer before hitting the power or else you lose the back end/traction? It works for me anyway and I though the S3 was neutral and balanced without the more sudden body adjustments I'm used to in the Scirocco.
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  15. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by moffe View Post
    And it has always 90% front and 10% back... from what I heard. And I think it can transfer 100% if needed.
    details and comment on the HALDEX system vary, but there is intimation that should BOTH front wheels lose traction, the HALDEX clutch can clamp at 100% sending all torque to the rear wheels [excepting drive train losses].

    Is this true ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_lecht_rocks View Post
    details and comment on the HALDEX system vary, but there is intimation that should BOTH front wheels lose traction, the HALDEX clutch can clamp at 100% sending all torque to the rear wheels [excepting drive train losses].

    Is this true ?
    From what I've read it's between 5 and 10% power to front in normal conditions.
    Power can then be transferred up to 100% to rear in the right slip conditions.

    I read that the newest generation is actually slightly slower in reacting than the haldex iv version due to them using a different type of clamping system to save money (BorgWarner). I don't think it will be very noticeable but people have reported a noticeable difference from certain Volvo models

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    With regards to Haldex, be aware that this our S3s utilise the new Generation 5 Haldex system which is quite a bit different to the outgoing Gen 4 Haldex on the old S3 and Golf R. Can't comment on if there is much difference to power split between the axles under various driving situations but you can expect there probably is so changes, therefore not much point speculating too heavily unless you've got the technical documents to hand.
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    Sent a cheeky email to borg warner, should settle this torque split speculation once and for all... well if they reply!
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  19. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobH_S3 View Post
    Sent a cheeky email to borg warner, should settle this torque split speculation once and for all... well if they reply!
    Any feedback Rob? You've teased us now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marky142 View Post
    I am just back from a very spirited drive around some challenging back / mountain roads. Have to say, it performed very well this morning. I think for me, the car is very in tune with the road conditions/tyres. Last week driving at 8/10ths it was to keen to understeer but the temps were way higher and the roads greasy. (I am running winter tyres). Today at 9/10ths the roads were soaking wet, still raining, and 3 degrees, and it went super well. Anyhow, just my view from the experiences I have had so far.
    did you get a new set of alloys with winter tyres or just use the existing rims - if so wont taking the old tyres off cause them damage

    what make winter tyres did you get and how much were they
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_lecht_rocks View Post
    But that's the point. The diff kills understeer and the s3 isn't AWD, it's an electronic system with minimal split to the rear on demand.With a diff and good suspension set up, a FWD will run the s3 ragged in standard form. Or will it ?
    Misinformation. The car is most certainly AWD. Starting with Haldex 4, the unit can preemptively store pressure and can lock the clutch long before any sort of axle slip takes place. The car only operates in a more front-biased mode when cruising or when making parking maneuvers. If you get slip on the front axle, the car can become rear biased and send up to 100 percent of available torque to the rear. In almost any situation where you are accellerating or cornering, power bias will be near 50/50 or even rear biased. Haldex 4 and 5 operate very similarly to the old Torsen systems in real world situations.

    I have rarely gotten even the 8P S3 to understeer. If you get this car to understeer at anything under 8-9/10ths (which is really not possible on the street), you have likely made a driving error. Overly rapid corner entry is often the culprit for early onset understeer, and is easily remedied by trail braking and driving more to a slow-in-fast-out manner. I would be curious to know when in the corner your car understeered, and whether you considered altering your driving style to account for the car's set up.

    Granted the car is not an Elise or a purpose-built sports car, but no sedan or hatch is; they are all inherently compromise from a strict performance perspective, and in a multitude of ways. That said, the S3 is one of the better ones out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_lecht_rocks View Post
    ... on attempting to pin apex exits u nder full throttle, the car simply refuses to hold it's line and WILL understeer..
    It seems I missed this post before writing my earlier reply. If you are driving like this, then it is no wonder you get corner-exit understeer. Pinning the throttle on corner exit with steering lock is a recipe for disaster, as the car is rear biased in this situation and the rear tires will begin to push over the fronts which are already on their limits of grip, since they are also still driving and turning. One might think you'd never driven an AWD car before; a differential might serve to mask your driving errors, but it would not make the car faster than if you'd driven it right to begin with...
    Last edited by scherzkeks; 20th December 2013 at 09:49.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scherzkeks View Post
    It seems I missed this post before writing my earlier reply. If you are driving like this, then it is no wonder you get corner-exit understeer. Pinning the throttle on corner exit with steering lock is a recipe for disaster, as the car is rear biased in this situation and the rear tires will begin to push over the fronts which are already on their limits of grip, since they are also still driving and turning. One might think you'd never driven an AWD car before; a differential might serve to mask your driving errors, but it would not make the car faster than if you'd driven it right to begin with...
    This guy has an eerie tone of knowledge!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by robo1million View Post
    This guy has an eerie tone of knowledge!!
    Doesn't he just, all sounds very plausible too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scherzkeks View Post
    It seems I missed this post before writing my earlier reply. If you are driving like this, then it is no wonder you get corner-exit understeer. Pinning the throttle on corner exit with steering lock is a recipe for disaster, as the car is rear biased in this situation and the rear tires will begin to push over the fronts which are already on their limits of grip, since they are also still driving and turning. One might think you'd never driven an AWD car before; a differential might serve to mask your driving errors, but it would not make the car faster than if you'd driven it right to begin with...
    exactly you need to learn how to drive every car - applying the same driving style to every car is a recipe for disaster. ive always driven fwd cars and have so for 26 years. this will be my first 4wd/awd car so I will be driving like miss daisy for the first few months
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  26. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by royalsteve68 View Post
    exactly you need to learn how to drive every car - applying the same driving style to every car is a recipe for disaster. ive always driven fwd cars and have so for 26 years. this will be my first 4wd/awd car so I will be driving like miss daisy for the first few months
    LOL, better be careful with my new GT3 in May in Adenau and it's surrounding "facilities"..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by royalsteve68 View Post
    exactly you need to learn how to drive every car - applying the same driving style to every car is a recipe for disaster. ive always driven fwd cars and have so for 26 years. this will be my first 4wd/awd car so I will be driving like miss daisy for the first few months
    I'd imagine my new S3 to be a slightly different drive to my current Landrover Freelander 4WD!!!! Here's hoping anyway.

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    I've never owned a 4WD car other than a RR Vogue TD6 which hardly counts as any comparison so I too will be very interested in the best way to drive the car for the best effect.

    What I do know is I'm really looking forward to actually being able to pull away from a standstill and out of junctions with roads as greasy as ours are at the moment. Our Golf GTI DSG is a nightmare to do anything other than just pussyfoot away from rest this time of year.

    Even our 1.4 TDCI fiesta can spin its wheels at the moment!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_lecht_rocks View Post
    LOL, better be careful with my new GT3 in May in Adenau and it's surrounding "facilities"..........
    new gt3, nice

    so you have a s3 and gt3...must be loaded then? decent job or robbed a bank? can you throw some cash my way, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itguy View Post
    I've never owned a 4WD car other than a RR Vogue TD6 which hardly counts as any comparison so I too will be very interested in the best way to drive the car for the best effect.

    What I do know is I'm really looking forward to actually being able to pull away from a standstill and out of junctions with roads as greasy as ours are at the moment. Our Golf GTI DSG is a nightmare to do anything other than just pussyfoot away from rest this time of year.

    Even our 1.4 TDCI fiesta can spin its wheels at the moment!!
    try a rwd car without winter tyres like a bmw - nail it full left or right lock, wrap car around the nearest tree
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    Winter tyres, proper closed differential and a haldex adapter will make the new S3 truly capable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by royalsteve68 View Post
    try a rwd car without winter tyres like a bmw - nail it full left or right lock, wrap car around the nearest tree
    I have a Z4 3.0i manual which I haven't bothered taking out of the garage for the last 3 months. Hopeless but wonderful on a nice warm sunny summers day.

    I do question why I have it sometimes, much the same as I question why I have a Ducati too - so few months of the year when it is nice to use them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itguy View Post
    I have a Z4 3.0i manual which I haven't bothered taking out of the garage for the last 3 months. Hopeless but wonderful on a nice warm sunny summers day.

    I do question why I have it sometimes, much the same as I question why I have a Ducati too - so few months of the year when it is nice to use them.
    I doubt id bother getting a convertible in this country though the merc slk amg55 I test drove 8 years ago was fun but completely pointless
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    Well I actually have pretty much always had a second 'fun' car, mostly roofless with a few exceptions. I then decided to give them up as wasn't using them enough but the wife and I decided to do a nice 2 week roadtrip of Europe this summer turning around at Rome, via the alps, stelvio etc etc so obviously needed a car to do it in, hence the Z4. Very good it was too for that journey, very well suited as a nice GT car with a bit of fun chucked in.

    We followed an English S2000 almost all the way, saw the same car most days on our way down but never got to speak to them!
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    Call me mad but I've just read through this entire thread!

    Sounds like a steering wheel is an optional extra at this rate? I think Scherzkeks makes some very valid points about adapting your driving style. i.e the principle of increasing throttle at similar rate to decreasing steering angle.

    All that said, I'm very excited for getting my Manual S3 on Monday having come from an A1 Black Edition (S-Tronic) running at 220bhp. That truly was a car that had to much power for it's set up (not enough downforce over the driven wheels!).

    Question: What settings can be changed under Drive select on the manual S3?

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    As far as I know you can change steering weight, throttle mapping, exhaust noise. If you have mag ride you can also do the damper settings too.
    Build Week 1: Panther Black S3 SB S-Tronic, black nappa, anthracite alloys, comfort pack with adaptive cruise and parking plus, active lane assist, adaptive xenons with variable range control and auto high beam, technology package HIGH with connect, B&O, tyre pressure warning, fold/dim/dip/heat mirrors, reversible boot liner, extended mono pur interior, privacy glass, hill hold assist, LED interior light pack, electric lumber support.

  37. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by royalsteve68 View Post
    I doubt id bother getting a convertible in this country though the merc slk amg55 I test drove 8 years ago was fun but completely pointless
    SLK 55 AMG is far from pointless.
    I'll be garaging the S3 and using mine throughout the summer months sunshine or not.
    A very characterful car which gets the heart fluttering each time I start it.
    If the weather stays okay this weekend I may well unleash it.
    Duds44 likes this.

  38. #197
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    I was having a nosey earlier at the Renaultsport forum as I used to be a member on there (had a couple of Clio's and Megane's) and I can't believe what I read! Apparently Megane's are hardly selling and the residuals are ridiculous! People saying they've lost over £10k in a year. So be glad we're in premium cars as we shouldn't be looking at anything like that kind of depreciation. Although a Megane might be a bit more fun, you couldn't burn money as fast as they lose money!! So glad I went with the S3 😃
    GRE57Y likes this.

  39. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by geefunk1978 View Post
    I was having a nosey earlier at the Renaultsport forum as I used to be a member on there (had a couple of Clio's and Megane's) and I can't believe what I read! Apparently Megane's are hardly selling and the residuals are ridiculous! People saying they've lost over £10k in a year. So be glad we're in premium cars as we shouldn't be looking at anything like that kind of depreciation. Although a Megane might be a bit more fun, you couldn't burn money as fast as they lose money!! So glad I went with the S3
    They don't have the appeal of the S3 as an all round supercar baiter but that's easy to live with. The Megane had the car magazines cooing over it, but just not a car you want to own long term
    S3 Saloon S-Tronic. Panther Black. Tech Pack, Super-sports seats, LED Lights, Comfort pack with Adaptive Cruise and parking plus, Folding mirrors, Bang and Olufsen Sound System, Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Privacy glass, Tyre sensor, Boot Mat (Countdown Thread)

    Previously 2.0TSi VW Scirocco

  40. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by geefunk1978 View Post
    I was having a nosey earlier at the Renaultsport forum as I used to be a member on there (had a couple of Clio's and Megane's) and I can't believe what I read! Apparently Megane's are hardly selling and the residuals are ridiculous! People saying they've lost over £10k in a year. So be glad we're in premium cars as we shouldn't be looking at anything like that kind of depreciation. Although a Megane might be a bit more fun, you couldn't burn money as fast as they lose money!! So glad I went with the S3 ������
    If you are worried about depreciation, you shouldn't buy any new car.
    My S5 dropped far more in 9 months than my previous Megane dropped in 14.
    Albeit higher cost so further to fall, but if you think Audi's don't depreciate like any other car, you are in for a shock.

    You are right though, Megane is more fun to drive.

  41. #200
    geefunk1978's Avatar
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    I don't doubt for a second the S3 will depreciate, just no where near as quick and as much as a brand new Megane.

 

 

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