1.4 TFSI (122ps) vs 2.0 TDI (150ps)

[Sootchucker]

Hi Guys, I'm going to a dealer over the weekend to test drive an A3 with the 2.0 TDI (150ps) engine. I expect it to drive quite similar (in respect to outright performance) as my current 2.0 TDI VW Scirocco, and that's the engine I was going for. Unfortunately they don't have a 1.4 TFSI for test, just the diesel.

However..........even when I purchased the Scirocco 2 years ago, I never really needed a diesel, but in GT spec (which is what I wanted), my choices were the diesel engines or a 2.0 Turbo 210ps Petrol. Whilst we all love a bit of performance, to be honest, the diesel was fast enough for my sort of driving, and the fuel economy blew the petrol into the weeds, and it was significantly cheaper than the petrol, which is why I now have a diesel. Coupled with the DSG box (S-Tronic for you guys ), it's made a great combination, however as I only do about 8-9k miles per year, I've always been worried about the DPF filter clogging (although to be fair - touch wood, I've never even had the DPF light come on yet).

On the basis of the above, I'm starting to consider the 1.4 TFSI (122ps) and was just wondering if any one has this engine and can give some insight into it's overall performance. Obviously I don't expect the huge wall of torque you can ride on the diesel or the same outright overall performance, but for every day driving and pootling up the motorway at 70-80mph, how does it fair. It will be a Sportback I'll go for, but I guess the current 3 door's performance will be very similar? Specifically as well, if anyone has it with the S-Tronic 7 speed box, I'd be really happy to hear your responses, as the 6 speed wet clutch assembly in my Rocco has been a peach, but i'm not too sure how much difference the 7 Speed dry clutch will make to the driving experience ?

I'd also be interested in real world fuel economy as well. The Rocco on my typical weekly commute, approx 10 miles to work and 15 miles back (different routes for different times of the day, in case you were wondering) with a mixture of 60% urban and 40% motorway, usual returns about 44-45 in the winter and 47-50 in the summer.

I know that at some point in this year there will be a 140ps ACT version in the Audi line up, but as this isn't available yet and will no doubt command a significant price difference, I'd like to discount comparisons to that please (for now).

Thanks in advance.

 

[h5djr]

Hi Guys, I'm going to a dealer over the weekend to test drive an A3 with the 2.0 TDI (150ps) engine. I expect it to drive quite similar (in respect to outright performance) as my current 2.0 TDI VW Scirocco, and that's the engine I was going for. Unfortunately they don't have a 1.4 TFSI for test, just the diesel.

However..........even when I purchased the Scirocco 2 years ago, I never really needed a diesel, but in GT spec (which is what I wanted), my choices were the diesel engines or a 2.0 Turbo 210ps Petrol. Whilst we all love a bit of performance, to be honest, the diesel was fast enough for my sort of driving, and the fuel economy blew the petrol into the weeds, and it was significantly cheaper than the petrol, which is why I now have a diesel. Coupled with the DSG box (S-Tronic for you guys ), it's made a great combination, however as I only do about 8-9k miles per year, I've always been worried about the DPF filter clogging (although to be fair - touch wood, I've never even had the DPF light come on yet).

On the basis of the above, I'm starting to consider the 1.4 TFSI (122ps) and was just wondering if any one has this engine and can give some insight into it's overall performance. Obviously I don't expect the huge wall of torque you can ride on the diesel or the same outright overall performance, but for every day driving and pootling up the motorway at 70-80mph, how does it fair. It will be a Sportback I'll go for, but I guess the current 3 door's performance will be very similar? Specifically as well, if anyone has it with the S-Tronic 7 speed box, I'd be really happy to hear your responses, as the 6 speed wet clutch assembly in my Rocco has been a peach, but i'm not too sure how much difference the 7 Speed dry clutch will make to the driving experience ?

I'd also be interested in real world fuel economy as well. The Rocco on my typical weekly commute, approx 10 miles to work and 15 miles back (different routes for different times of the day, in case you were wondering) with a mixture of 60% urban and 40% motorway, usual returns about 44-45 in the winter and 47-50 in the summer.

I know that at some point in this year there will be a 140ps ACT version in the Audi line up, but as this isn't available yet and will no doubt command a significant price difference, I'd like to discount comparisons to that please (for now).

Thanks in advance.

There have been several posts on here and on the VW Audi Form for the new Golf VII where drivers have not liked the way the 7-speed dry clutch DSG/s-tronic when compared with the original 6-speed version your have been using. Make sure you try a car with the 7-speed before you make any decision.

My wife had a test drive in a 1.4 Polo with a 7-speed a while ago. She also drives my A3 2.0TDI with the 6-speed and she thought the 7-speed was 'horrible' when compared to my 6-speed. She hated it so much she stuck with a manual and went for an Audi A1 with the 1.6TDI. I didn't actually drive the Polo but I could feel the hesitation and slightly gerky change from the passenger seat.

 

[stevey_cam]

I'm in a similar position to you with my current car. I went for the 1.6 tdi A1 because it worked out cheaper per month on a PCP than the 1.4 tfsi.

I've ordered the 1.4 tfsi after test driving both the 2.0 tdi and the 1.4 tfsi. It's obviously not as quick as the 2.0 but I felt it was nippy enough. Really quiet and smooth compared to the diesel as well. Plus it's a lot cheaper as well.

 

[viperfire]

I have (my fiances main car now) a 1.4tfsi a1 and it certainly goes. Typical petrol really in that 1st and 2nd it burn even the 150hp diesel. Its mid range where the diesel obviously will excel. It certainly isn't a slouch though and you cant get up to 100mph on the motorway very easily . The a3 is obviously heavier but the 1.4 122 a3 i drove didn't feel any less fast than the a1

 

[vwgti]

I'm in a similar position to you with my current car. I went for the 1.6 tdi A1 because it worked out cheaper per month on a PCP than the 1.4 tfsi.

I've ordered the 1.4 tfsi after test driving both the 2.0 tdi and the 1.4 tfsi. It's obviously not as quick as the 2.0 but I felt it was nippy enough. Really quiet and smooth compared to the diesel as well. Plus it's a lot cheaper as well.

I had the 1.4 122 engine on a golf mk6, fantastic value it has a really nice sweet spot around 1800rpm where it feels as nippy as anything. tails out abit in the higher revs but also cruises at about 2500rpm at 70ish and will accelerate in 6th(manual)

in the summer at the end of my 6 mile commute which involves a slow ring road i was getting 40+mpg, and just about did cambridge to manchester and back on a full tank give or take 20 miles

 

[Sootchucker]

Cheers guys, very informative.

Seems like the 1.4 TFSI is, as the press are saying, a bit of a peach of an engine. If I could get 40-45mpg overall (and I have quite a light right foot), then I would be very happy. The only concern I would have is the 7 speed S-Tronic compares to the 6 Speed as h5djr mentioned (as I am definaltey a DSG/ S-Tronic convert, and also the wife has a dodgy left knee so can't press a clutch so an automatic is pretty much a definative).

I guess I'll have to hold out for a S-Tronic version in any dealership and give that a go ?

 

[PjDali]

Having owned an A3 SB 1.4 tfsi since March 2010, coming from a 57 plate Civic 1.8 petrol which was reasonably nippy, I've nothing but great things to say about the 1.4 tfsi engine.

It feels nippy with me, the wife and all sorts of luggage and it just purrs along and always feels like its a much bigger engine. Feels as strong if not stronger than the Civic was.

I did test drive the 1.8 tfsi back in 2010 and it was really nice and pacey but not worth the extra dosh to me and my wife (obviously depends on need for extra oomph).

Watched a new A3 vid on YouTube last night which I think was a Dutch car review site with English subtitles and the 1.4 COD engine came in for a little bit of criticism about the transition between 2 / 4 cylinders. Certainly wasn't a bad review but reading others comments on the forum, possibly a characteristic that might put some off. Not driven the 1.4 COD myself but would like to sometime.

 

[Chelmersteve]

I have been driving a 122 hp 1.4 A1 with S-tronic for the past 2 years, having previously had A3s - both 2.0l and 1.8l - with the S-tronic box. The 1.4 certainly is a sweet engine and I notice no difference between the 7 and 6 speed boxes (apart from the extra gear of course). Its changes are imperceptible and it responds instantly when you want some quick acceleration. I have no complaints whatever with it. Re the Polo above - the 1.4 Polo S-tronic has only 85 hp unless you go for the GT or GTi - maybe that's where the problem is.
I have a 1.4 A3 with S-tronic in build at the moment for March 1 delivery. The COD engine is not yet available on the A3 thought it is, at a price, on the Golf GT.

 

[Sootchucker]

Am I being too simplistic here (read on).

I've done a spread sheet comparing the various merits of both engines ( yes, sad I know ) , and seem to have arrived a quite a startling conclusion (unless my calcs are poor). Bear with me..........

Performance

There's only a 6mph top end difference between the two (academic as they are both license banning speeds). Acceleration, just under a second between them, but at about 9 seconds 0-60, the 1.4 doesn't seem a slouch (the TDi's just faster). Obviously no in gear figures available and mid range acceleration is bound to be better on the TDI with it's extra torque, but will it "feel" that much faster ?

Power to Weight

The 1.4 has a power to weight ratio of 100bhp/ton, and the TDI 114bhp/ton (hardly an earth shattering difference ?)
Weight and power figures taken from Audi's' website.

Economy.

Now down to the real one.

Official figures list the combined economy of the engines as the 1.4 @ 56.5mpg and the TDI at 62.8mpg, but we all know you never get that in the real world. So assuming (and it is an assumption), that we would only ever acheive 70% of the official figures, that would mean 39.9 for the 1.4 and 44 for the TDI (a difference of 4.4mpg).

Taking into account that currently unleaded is approx 8p per litre cheaper then for my estimated 9000 miles per annum, it would use 227.6 gallons for the 1.4 (at a cost of £1,375) and 205 gallons for the TDi (at a cost of £1,311). To my reckoning that a saving to me of less than £100 per year on fuel if I chose the TDI.

Bearing in mind that the 1.4 is a whopping £2,300 cheaper than the TDI (£24,035 vs £26,335), then that would take over 20 years for my mileage to repay itself.

I know there are some niggling questions over the the 7 speed S-Tronic mated to the 1.4 TFSI vs the proven 6 Speed unit fitted to the TDI (which I'm used to on my Scirocco), and I would 100% have to test drive the 1.4 before making up my mind to make sure it's a good real world combination, but based upon the above and assuming the test drive goes well, it seems the 1.4 looks like being a front runner.

Don't get me wrong, I love Diesels, my cars for the last 8 years have been VW diesels and they have all been bullet proof and totally reliable, but that £2,300 saving (now I'm doing less miles per year) is looking mighty tempting. It means a difference of an A3 sportback in my spec of over £32k for the Diesel vs £30k for the Petrol. The only other question I would have then is how reliable are these 1.4 TFSi Turbocharged engines. I know they have been out for a few years now, but have any issues been ironed out of them and are they generally reliable ?

Are there any major floors in my calcs ?

 

[stevey_cam]

Am I being too simplistic here (read on).

I've done a spread sheet comparing the various merits of both engines ( yes, sad I know ) , and seem to have arrived a quite a startling conclusion (unless my calcs are poor). Bear with me..........

Performance

There's only a 6mph top end difference between the two (academic as they are both license banning speeds). Acceleration, just under a second between them, but at about 9 seconds 0-60, the 1.4 doesn't seem a slouch (the TDi's just faster). Obviously no in gear figures available and mid range acceleration is bound to be better on the TDI with it's extra torque, but will it "feel" that much faster ?

Power to Weight

The 1.4 has a power to weight ratio of 100bhp/ton, and the TDI 114bhp/ton (hardly an earth shattering difference ?)
Weight and power figures taken from Audi's' website.

Economy.

Now down to the real one.

Official figures list the combined economy of the engines as the 1.4 @ 56.5mpg and the TDI at 62.8mpg, but we all know you never get that in the real world. So assuming (and it is an assumption), that we would only ever acheive 70% of the official figures, that would mean 39.9 for the 1.4 and 44 for the TDI (a difference of 4.4mpg).

Taking into account that currently unleaded is approx 8p per litre cheaper then for my estimated 9000 miles per annum, it would use 227.6 gallons for the 1.4 (at a cost of £1,3745) and 205 gallons for the TDi (at a cost of £1,311). To my reckoning that a saving to me of less than £100 per year on fuel if I chose the TDI.

Bearing in mind that the 1.4 is a whopping £2,300 cheaper than the TDI (£24,035 vs £26,335), then that would take over 20 years for my mileage to repay itself.

I know there are some niggling questions over the the 7 speed S-Tronic mated to the 1.4 TFSI vs the proven 6 Speed unit fitted to the TDI (which I'm used to on my Scirocco), and I would 100% have to test drive the 1.4 before making up my mind to make sure it's a good real world combination, but based upon the above and assuming the test drive goes well, it seems the 1.4 looks like being a front runner.

Don't get me wrong, I love Diesels, my cars for the last 8 years have been VW diesels and they have all been bullet proof and totally reliable, but that £2,30.00 saving (now I'm doing less miles per year) is looking mighty tempting. It means a difference of an A3 sportback in my spec of over £32k for the Diesel vs £30k for the Petrol. The only other question I would have then is how reliable are these 1.4 TFSi Turbocharged engines. I know they have been out for a few years now, but have any issues been ironed out of them and are they generally reliable ?

Are there any major floors in my calcs ?

This is basically my reason in going for the 1.4 over the 2.0 tdi. I do around 10k miles per year so pretty similar to you.

Just one error in your figures. Total cost for the year for the 1.4, you've got £1,3745, seems a tad high

 

[Sootchucker]

Ha, well spotted and now corrected

 

[stevey_cam]

:icon_thumright:

 

[mjcourtney]

Yes, this almost identical calculation that I did. Based on 12k per year over 3 years, the 1.4TFSI presented considerably cheaper lifetime costs (including purchase price, road tax, and fuel). Having driven both the performance difference - although noticeable - was not enough to warrant the extra cost of the diesel in my case.

 

[Sootchucker]

Out of interest, does anyone know if that extra £2300 buys anything else other than engine ? I.e. does the 1.4 have the basic torsion beam rear suspension or the more expensive multilink set up? What about the brakes, are they bigger and better on the TDI ?

 

[hittchy]

Bearing in mind that the 1.4 is a whopping £2,300 cheaper than the TDI (£24,035 vs £26,335), then that would take over 20 years for my mileage to repay itself.

You'd only lose about half this though as the residual on the diesel will be higher at resale time. Insurance is probably slightly cheaper on the petrol car.

I think the way they drive would be a bigger 'deal breaker'. It would depend on whether you'd prefer putting up with the diesel noise for the mid range punch or a quieter and smoother engine but less torque. Bear in mind if you're doing lots of short journeys it could lead to DPF issues on the diesel.

Saving £1,000 at purchase time may be false economy considering you're going to lose about £100 per week just in depreciation. You may as well have the car you want! :thumbsup:

 

[h5djr]

Out of interest, does anyone know if that extra £2300 buys anything else other than engine ? I.e. does the 1.4 have the basic torsion beam rear suspension or the more expensive multilink set up? What about the brakes, are they bigger and better on the TDI ?

According to information I've seen in connection with the new Golf VII, the 1.4 engined models do have the multi-link rear suspension.