New A3 and new Golf VII

[h5djr]

I have just spent the day at Autostadt in Wolfsburg Germany. I visited all the various pavilions for each of the VAG manufacturers. The Audi pavilion had a single S-Line version of the new A3 which I sat in and tried most of the controls. Externally it looks fine but I don't like the interior at all. After the Audi pavilion I went to the VW pavilion and they had two new Golf VII's and a new Golf VII GTI. Again I sat in and tried all the controls of both a manual and a DSG Golf and I must say I much prefer the interior and control layout of the Golf. The interior finish of the Golf was just as good as the A3 and the switches etc were in my opinion better. The screen unit in the dash was very simple and easy to use with the buttons around the outside and the fact that the screen was a touch screen which every mode it was in. The switch for the new electronic handbrake was bigger in the Golf. The arrangement of the switches around the DSG lever worked well and the lever itself had a similar button on the front end as the existing A3. Both Golf models had adaptive cruise control and I understand this will be standard on all Golfs from the SE spec upwards. The finish of the centre console in one car was a glossy black which I was not keen on but the other one had a nice dull aluminium finish on both the console and the door trims. One of the Golfs had a sunroof which was glass and slid back over the normal roof rather than taking up valuable height in the cabin.

In the Skoda pavilion I had a look at the current Octavia Estate. My interest in this is because I now have to use a mobility scooter for going any distance and the space in the back of the Octavia would have accommodated it with ease. It just about fits in my A3 but any cases have to go inside. I'm sure with the Octavia Estate both would have gone in the luggage area.
From my personal point of view I will be very interested to see the new Skoda Octavia due out in 2013 and also the new Estate version of the Golf VII, again due out next year.

My next car choice is certainly not going to be as straight-forward as in the past and I don't think it will be my 9th A3.

 

[Audi Man Dan]

I think after 8 Audi A3's it's time for a change Dave. Leave the new A3 for cool kids like myself. The fact that a Skoda Octavia gets your blood pumping is also concerning. Stick with the 4 rings, A4 avant maybe?

 

[h5djr]

I think after 8 Audi A3's it's time for a change Dave. Leave the new A3 for cool kids like myself. The fact that a Skoda Octavia gets your blood pumping is also concerning. Stick with the 4 rings, A4 avant maybe?

The problem with the A4, apart from cost, is that it has a similar MMI setup to the new A3 and it is that which I dislike. My current preference is for the new Golf VII, possibly in Estate form, but I will be looking at the new Skoda when it is released. If I did go for a Golf it would going full circle as I had several Golf GTIs and a Golf VR6 before I changed to the A3.

 

[h5djr]

The other problem with an A4 is that Audi only do it with the 'multitronic' gearbox which is nowhere near as nice as the DSG.

 

[Vertigo1]

They do offer the 7 speed S-Tronic (nee DSG) in the A4 now but only in the 2.0TFSI and 3.0TDI models.

 

[phil miller]

The golf does look good, thing is it doesnt look much different to the 5 or the 5.5 but i would px my 5 in for a 7 when the prices drop a little, after seeing my bosses brand new A5 S Line 2 weeks ago i would love a new car but the amount it drops the second you drive it puts me off a little

 

[h5djr]

They do offer the 7 speed S-Tronic (nee DSG) in the A4 now but only in the 2.0TFSI and 3.0TDI models.

True but I would not want to pay a lot more, loose a lot on fuel-consumption and get a bigger car than I really want, just to own an Audi. It's just not worth it. And also it still has the similar MMI set-up which is what I dislike most about the new A3.

I owned a Golf GL, 3 Golf GTIs and a Golf VR6 and over a period of 13 years and enjoyed every one. I have owned A3s for a similar period and again enjoyed every one of them, but it looks very much that in a couple of years time I will be going back to the Golf.

 

[Ste_Nova]

i drive an A1 and an A6, mmi on the dash is a pain, once you get used to it behind the gearstick it is 10 times better, also touch screen are nice but no good when your driving, and if you can reach the screen then its too close to be an effective sat nav screen!

 

[h5djr]

I have just noticed the Volkswagen(UK) has the price list available on their website and I have down-loaded a copy. It seems that based on a 2.0TDI-150 with a DSG gearbox (although Audi do not yet list this as an available model but taking the 2.0TDI-150 SE and adding £1500 for the DSG) the price of the Golf and the A3 will work out about the same, although the Golf will have some items as standard that are options on the A3 such as DAB radio, Auto Lights and Wipers, Colour DIS, Adapative Cruise Control, Illuminated vanity mirrors, Interior lighting package, Through load and Hill hold which add around £2000 to the A3.

 

[h5djr]

i drive an A1 and an A6, mmi on the dash is a pain, once you get used to it behind the gearstick it is 10 times better, also touch screen are nice but no good when your driving, and if you can reach the screen then its too close to be an effective sat nav screen!

My wife has an A1 and it's a lovely car but I'm not keen on the screen/control system on that, although it's better than the new A3. At least the screen and controls are closer together. I don't have the Audi SatNav in my A3 but use a TomTom with the PGPSW (Personal GPS World) speed camera data and that is all controlled by touch and I find it suits me fine. Not sure if I would be prepared to pay extra for either the Audi or the VW SatNav as neither can take the PGPSW speed camera data which is updated twice a month and for which I hold a free life-time subscription.

 

[basilcat]

The intereior on the new 8V is one of the best things about it. The press seem to think so too. The quality for a car of this class is unbelievable whilst the MMI - is the same as MMI on every other modern Audi. Dont really see the point of spending virtually the same amount of money and ending up with a Golf - Its interior is a bit like the old A3's - old and not very special.

 

[sebtomato]

Dont really see the point of spending virtually the same amount of money and ending up with a Golf

Not exactly the same amount of money, if you compare like for like in term of equipment. Try and compare the Golf GT for instance with the equivalent A3, with the same amount of equipment...
And of course, there is equipment you can't even get on an A3, such like emergency braking, driver tiredness warning, active suspensions etc.

 

[viperfire]

Not exactly the same amount of money, if you compare like for like in term of equipment. Try and compare the Golf GT for instance with the equivalent A3, with the same amount of equipment...
And of course, there is equipment you can't even get on an A3, such like emergency braking, driver tiredness warning, active suspensions etc.

**** off onto the vw forums then

seriously though why get a golf with similar spec to save a grand. No matter how you dress it up Audi is a premium brand and vw isn't. The a3 interior looks much better whereas the golf is stuck in the past. Spend as little as a grand more and get the better brand!

 

[h5djr]

Audi, together with BMW, are only considered 'premium' brands by the company car market which is where both companies now aim for the majority of their sales. The new Golf VII is just as good in quality terms as the new A3 and whether you consider the interior to be 'much better' is down to personal taste. The use of a touch screen is hardly 'stuck in the past' when compared to a manual control.

Audi is a wholly owned by Volkswagen and for the A3 uses the VW developed MQB platform and the same engines and gearboxes as the Golf. A lot of the engines used by the the whole of the VAG range and now built in a Skoda factory and all the DSG type gearboxes are built in a VW factory.

The great thing is that both cars are quality products made by basically the same company and therefore offer a choice to the customer.

 

[Sootchucker]

You know, I am pretty sure (well 95% sure), that my next car ordered in the summer will be an Audi A3 Sportback S-Line. However for me this has nothing to do with seeing Audi as a premium brand over VW (I've owned three VW's back to back and they have all been brilliant), but more to do with the fact that I prefer the looks (inside and out) of the A3 to the new Golf 7.

What right royaly pi55es me off though, is the attitude of "some" Audi salesfolk. I was in the Warringotn Audi dealership on Saturday, enquiring as to when they would get a demo of the sportback. The conversation then turned to what I drove now, and I pointed out of the window to my not 2 years old Scirocco, to which I was confronted by, "Oh, a VW eh". He then went on to basically say how whilst VW's and Skoda's were OK, only people who couldn't afford an Audi bought one of them.

He then proceeded to tell me how much my car would have depreciated against an Audi, and how an A3 seems to be the best car at holding it's value. Furthermore, all the high tech technology in the new cars were apparently developed by Audi and even the new MQB platform was an Audi brainchild and they "licensed" it to the (in his worlds), lesser VAG brands.

Sorry but my nose couldn't suffer the bullsh1t any more and I left. It just proves that some Audi dealers still seem to be up their own backsides over their brand image. As I said my 3 VW's have all been perfect, whereas my neighbour who had a brand new 7 plate A3 said she would never own another Audi again, it was that poor. Just goes to show you, even Audi have their bad days. Compare that to the Audi dealership in Macclesfield, who couldn't be more politer, intelligent and knowledgeable about all things VAG, and even complimented me on how cool but Scirocco was and what a great car it was for the VAG brand. I know where my money will be going and it won't be the local dealer !

I totally agree with what h5djr says about the quality of the newer breeds of VW (even Skoda for that matter) vs. Audi's in that to my eye, they seem to be just as well built, quite and luxurious. It's good that we have a choice of cars in all the sectors within the same group. All are great cars, but one not necessarily better than other. As I said, I will choose and Audi purely because this time, I prefer it to the new Golf.

 

[Vertigo1]

Not exactly the same amount of money, if you compare like for like in term of equipment. Try and compare the Golf GT for instance with the equivalent A3, with the same amount of equipment...
And of course, there is equipment you can't even get on an A3, such like emergency braking, driver tiredness warning, active suspensions etc.

Works both ways though. When I looked at the specs/options for the Golf, there didn't appear to be any high-end audio option akin to the B&O system for the A3. Personally that'd be far more of a sticking point for me than the features you mentioned. Just as styling and interior layouts are a personal thing, so are the options available. Each to their own.

 

[Vertigo1]

Audi, together with BMW, are only considered 'premium' brands by the company car market which is where both companies now aim for the majority of their sales.

Sorry but I don't agree at all. Whether justified or not, brands such as BMW, Audi, Mercedes & Jaguar are still perceived by a very large number of people to be a "cut above" brands such as Ford, Vauxhall or even VW (though less so in this latter case I admit).

Like I said it may not be justified, and I'm impressed at how good some of the more recent Fords and Vauxhalls are for example, but that's the way it is I'm afraid.

One thing which always gets me is how many people you see in what I like to call "poverty spec" cars. Base trim level BMW 116s or Audi A3s. You just know they'd rather have been seen driving "a BMW" or "an Audi" at any cost, and were prepared to sacrifice everything just to get that badge and be seen driving it. I'm fortunate in that I can get a well specced A3 but, if it was a choice between a poorly specced Audi and a decently kitted out VW, Ford or Vauxhall, I know which way I'd jump.

Of course, even in the base trim levels, you still get the "build quality" that such marques are renowned for but, these days, even Fords and Vauxhalls are so well put together that there's not much in it really. Ok, the materials used will often be of higher quality in the premium brands but there was a time when you'd pretty much expect a Ford or Vauxhall to squeak and rattle a bit whereas you'd never put up with that from a BMW or Audi but nowadays that's not the case and all but the cheapest of new cars are very well built.

Interestingly, I do notice far more women driving such cars than men. That's in no way sexist or anything, just an observation. I think it probably stems from the fact that women are more style concious than men in general and I think that sometimes extends to cars. The "image" of being seen driving a BMW or Audi is more important to them than trim or equipment levels.

 

[h5djr]

He then proceeded to tell me how much my car would have depreciated against an Audi, and how an A3 seems to be the best car at holding it's value. Furthermore, all the high tech technology in the new cars were apparently developed by Audi and even the new MQB platform was an Audi brainchild and they "licensed" it to the (in his worlds), lesser VAG brands.

The salesmen's comments just go to show how little some know about the product they are selling. The MQB platform was developed by Volkswagen engineers for use by the whole of the group. That was the whole idea of it in the first place. Volkswagen and Audi engineers work very closely together for the benefit of the whole group and the MQB does not need to be licensed to VW or Audi or Skoda and Seat for that matter as it belongs to Volkswagen as do all the companies using it. When I went for a test drive of the Golf VII I was pleasantly surprised just how much the salesmen knew about the car and all the new technology fitted to it. It made a very pleasant change. Normally, even with Audi dealers, I know far more about the car they are selling than they do. I assume to most of them it's just a job.

As far a Audi being a premium brand, personally I think it does have a certain 'premium' thing to it, especially as a have driven an Audi for 15 years, but most of my friends and colleagues regard it as a Volkswagen with an expensive badge and aimed mostly at the company car market. When I bought my first A3 the quality of the interior especially was much better than the equivalent Golf but the gap has now closed and quality wise the are equal, but perhaps Audi still has a premium name and badge. If anyone really wants a good reliable car then according to most surveys they should buy Japanese but quality is more than just reliability. All of my eight A3s have given me very little, if any, trouble during the time I owned them, but my four Golf GTIs and one Golf VR6 were just as reliable.

 

[Spurrellian]

I think its all down to personal choice.

When my company car renewal came through I had a choice on the old golf or the new a3. I looked at photos of the A3 and didn't like it. I drove the golf and was set on ordering it until I popped into the Audi dealer on the way home. Sat in the A3 and it just felt a much nicer place to be. Also I could spec it to the same as the golf and it was cheaper via tax and personal contribution (VW had old engines)

I like the new golf but had to get my order in quickly. I think they are both great cars but I just prefer the A3 and can't wait to get it in two weeks time

Can't wait to get rid of my focus 1.8tdi even though it's treated me well over the last four years. Never missed a beat ever, but does rattle badly now and everything feels worn even though its got 70k on the clock

 

[h5djr]

I think its all down to personal choice.

When my company car renewal came through I had a choice on the old golf or the new a3. I looked at photos of the A3 and didn't like it. I drove the golf and was set on ordering it until I popped into the Audi dealer on the way home. Sat in the A3 and it just felt a much nicer place to be. Also I could spec it to the same as the golf and it was cheaper via tax and personal contribution (VW had old engines)

I like the new golf but had to get my order in quickly. I think they are both great cars but I just prefer the A3 and can't wait to get it in two weeks time

Can't wait to get rid of my focus 1.8tdi even though it's treated me well over the last four years. Never missed a beat ever, but does rattle badly now and everything feels worn even though its got 70k on the clock

I agree completely. Up until VW launched the Golf VII I would agree that the A3 has always had the better interior which is why I have bought eight of them. Now they are of equal quality and it's down to which design you prefer. Personally I think I would now like to have a look at an estate version which means a choice between the new Octavia Estate and the new Golf Estate when they are released. Both are very similar in style with the touch screen setup and it will be interesting to compare the quality of the interior. Engines and gearboxes etc.will be the same ones used in the A3, the Golf and the Octavia.

 

[hittchy]

Works both ways though. When I looked at the specs/options for the Golf, there didn't appear to be any high-end audio option akin to the B&O system for the A3. Personally that'd be far more of a sticking point for me than the features you mentioned. Just as styling and interior layouts are a personal thing, so are the options available. Each to their own.

I agree.

The comparison would be different for different people, depending on the value they put on each feature. I'd put no value on adaptive cruise, city braking etc. I'd put some value on Xenon headlights, sat nav, DRLs and LED lights. I'd put a lot of value on dual zone climate, 18" wheels, range of colours, parking sensors, decent sound system and style/image (as much as I hate to say it).

Taking that into consideration, the A3 Sport is £23,350 and the Golf GT is £23,465. These are direct comparisons. The S-Line isn't. I would compare the S-Line to the Golf GTD coming at the end of the year.

I'd have to upgrade the wheels on both, add a comfort pack to the A3 but still couldn't get an upgraded sound system on the Golf. I'd also need to buy an extra 2 years roadside assistance for the Golf.

For my spec, there really isn't much in it. For others, it might be the other way around.

 

[hittchy]

If anyone really wants a good reliable car then according to most surveys they should buy Japanese

Very true. I had a 60 plate Toyota Yaris in the household as a run-around until last year. Fantastic car, very versatile and never missed a beat. I'm convinced there was more room in the back than my A4. In two years, it went back to the dealer for a service twice. The A4 on the other hand has been back seven times for numerous faults.

However, it was very clinical and left you feeling numb. I'd still buy another VW/Audi over a Japanese car though.

 

[hittchy]

He then proceeded to tell me how much my car would have depreciated against an Audi, and how an A3 seems to be the best car at holding it's value.

What a clown!

The Scirocco is probably one of the lowest depreciating cars in the VAG group. Holds its value better than the A3 (marginally!)

Top 20 cars that depreciate the least - Telegraph

It's not the sort of thing you say to a customer you're trying to build a relationship with.

 

[nadsi77]

I recently seen the new golf at my local vw dealer,and i have to say how boring looking it was.it's just so conservative. Also the interior which is well built and good quality is no match for the a3's interior.My local audi dealer has a glacier white a3 s line in the showroom and i have to say it is much more of a headturner it looks aggresive were as the golf looks wimpy.

 

[viperfire]

I recently seen the new golf at my local vw dealer,and i have to say how boring looking it was.it's just so conservative. Also the interior which is well built and good quality is no match for the a3's interior.My local audi dealer has a glacier white a3 s line in the showroom and i have to say it is much more of a headturner it looks aggresive were as the golf looks wimpy.

exactly! I don't think I've ever heard so much ******** from Dave saying his mates think Audi is a vw with a different badge aimed at company car buyers.

what a load of tosh! Audi are VWs premium brand, vw below that, then skoda then seat. Audi sit nicely at the top and will always remain there.

don't get me wrong I've always likes golfs but they are a step below the a3 in many respects not least the badge. You want premium buy the a3, you want understated, run of the mill, traditional cult car buy the golf.

 

[h5djr]

Audi has always been a 'premium' brand but mainly because of the range of cars it sells like the A5,A6,A7,A8,TT,R8 etc. It used to be the same at the A3 level as well which is one of the reasons I have purchased (with my own money) eight of them. But VW have upped their game with the new Golf VII and quality wise it is equal to the A3. The Golf has always been a bit conservative but from the outside I not sure non-enthusiasts will see the difference between the old and new A3.

The two cars now use so much of the same technology with things like keyless entry, adaptive cruise control, driver alert systems, lane assist, park assist with auto parking, rear view camera, bi-xenon headlights etc. Which one you prefer is down to personal taste and I prefer the touch screen setup of the Golf to pop-up screen and MMI of the A3. I fully accept that others will prefer the A3. In many ways I wish I did, but I think my next car, for personal reasons, will have to be an estate which rules out the A3 and leaves me a choice between the Golf Estate or the Skoda Estate.

 

[viperfire]

Dave my uncle went from an a4 tdi estate Quattro to a VW 4 motion Tiguan. He still regrets it to this day and is wanting to change to a q5. Once you've been to a certain level its pretty hard to downgrade and i think you may have the same issue. Coincidentally my uncle is called Dave also

 

[h5djr]

Dave my uncle went from an a4 tdi estate Quattro to a VW 4 motion Tiguan. He still regrets it to this day and is wanting to change to a q5. Once you've been to a certain level its pretty hard to downgrade and i think you may have the same issue. Coincidentally my uncle is called Dave also

I think you are right, for anything other than the new Golf VII. As I said VW has definite upped their game with the interior of the new Golf. The problem with the A4 Estate is it's just too big and a bit too expensive and will not fit into my garage whereas a new Golf will. My A3 is not yet a year old so I won't be changing just yet. I will get a good chance to have a look at both the Golf and the Skoda when they are released. It's good fun looking at new cars!!

 

[viperfire]

A Golf 5 door 140 1.4 GT is £22,960 otr

An S line a3 122 1.4 is £23,200 otr

You get better standard spec on the s line including xenons, leds, black headlining, s line body kit and s line seats plus the Audi badge for £240 more

You get something equivalent to a comfort pack on the golf gt but if you upgraded the wheels and the lights to xenons you'd be looking at £1500 premium compared to £500 for a comfort pack with Audi.

The one thing is the 18 more hp that you get with the Golf but it is really worth the drop in the name and quality of Audi for smaller wheels, only a modified front bumper (nothing else) and standard lights?

Nope

If we were talking a £1500 less then maybe but not when the price is so close.

We also have the include the fact the Audi has the better dash and interior. Far better in fact, it's a no brainer really.

I went to see both one after the other today and the interior quality of the Golf GT is a massive let down compared to the Audi. It's ugly and feels old fashioned whereas the Audi is modern and sporty.

I can't stress enough how the Golf isn't in the same league as the A3 nor ever will be.

 

[h5djr]

We also have the include the fact the Audi has the better dash and interior. Far better in fact, it's a no brainer really.

I went to see both one after the other today and the interior quality of the Golf GT is a massive let down compared to the Audi. It's ugly and feels old fashioned whereas the Audi is modern and sporty.

I can't stress enough how the Golf isn't in the same league as the A3 nor ever will be.

In your opinion the dash is better. In my opinion the A3's dash is horrible. With the Golf VII the SE version (which is the one I would buy) has a better dash than the GT. The SE is a dark brushed stainless steel whereas the one in the GT looks like shiny black plastic.

Further to my earlier comments about not considering an A4 Estate/Avant - I have just realised that your have to go to a 34.5k Avant S-Line before you can get a s-tronic geabox. Those models further down the range have the multi-tronic, which is no where near as good as the s-tronic and I do not want s-line suspension or seats.