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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    DBXdarkangel must be singing and dancing now.
    That made me chuckle! lol

    Quote Originally Posted by simch View Post
    25 second penalty......what they realised the 10 second penalty would still let him win!

    What a bunch of biassed tools they really are!
    After massa risking lives in the pit lane last week....un punished. Raikonen in Monacco spooning into the Force INdia.....- unpunished......! Raikonen's flying exhaust....unpunished....!>!>! Lewis hits him in the pits in canada.......punished!! Kovalinen today, stiks it up the inside and spins out webber---punished! I mean it is not like webber was out of the race like in monacco!

    I remember when FIA had their tongues up Michael Shumachers ahole and he overtook under waved yellows (I think), anyway he got a 10 s stop and go penalty......they let him go in the pits on the last lap, cross the line, enter his pit and sit there 10 sec before declaring him the winner FFS! If he had had to do the pit out at 60kmhs, he would have lost!
    I wonder how long before Lewis realises they are out to get him and Mosely is a racist fxxk and stops bothering risking his ass like that. It seems you get a great car, cruise around in third like an also ran and get rewarded like Massa.

    BTW, in 2007, Mosely got rid of the then chief Steward and appointed his own, some guy called allan donnely. Do a google search to see the history of this guy!!

    Corruption at it's most cynical........at the expense of the fans without which there would be no sport and certainly no billion dollar business. Mclaren should pull their cars out and see how much joe smoe enjoys the Ferrari parade laps til the season end!
    As a whole, I've got to say a pretty much agree with what you've said. It does seem like McLaren are at war with the FIA most of the time. Someting to do with Mosley and Ron Dennis having a tiff years ago. There are a few things that I'd point out from my view on what you've listed...

    As far as Massa's incident in the pits, that was touch and go. He did file in behind at the end. Even Blundell said that in his view he shouldn't have been penalised. I suppose this will be debatable.

    Kimi's incident at Monaco, I strongly disagree that he was let off. In my view it was a racing incident. Kimi lost control in the slippery conditions and hit Sutil in the rear. It wasn't done on purpose, it wasn't reckless driving. He lost control and couldn't avoid it. Now his flying exhaust on the other hand... something should have been done because that was bloody dangerous!

    Lewis hitting Kimi in the pits I think was justified punishment. Because Lewis didnt see the red light at the end of the pits which was there for safety reasons, is why he got punished for it. Same goes for Rosberg too (I think it was him that followed Hamilton).

    As for Heikki today, I didnt see the race so I cant comment. If Martin says that it was bad driving on Heikki's behalf, then maybe that was justified too?

    I remember Schumachers 10's penalty. The one at Silverstone? I think that they found a loophole in the rules which 'technically' allowed them to do that. Because it fell into a technicallity, the FIA couldn't do squat which is why they amended the rules straight after. I must admit that Ferrari in those days were finding a lot of these 'grey areas' in the rules and were getting away with a lot. Right or wrong... it happens in motorsport.

    They need to be more consistant with the punishments. Thats whats letting the sport down at the moment. In the past 2 years theres been some fantastic racing but its all clouded with last years Spygate and other little bits and pieces this year. The thing with F1 is that its a business nowadays. Not a sport so you'll get people pushing the rules to the limits and doing absolutly anything to win. At the end of the day winning means and thats what its all about unfortunately.
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  3. #242
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    at the end of the day kimmi forced him wide and he then gave him the place back.did it have an affect on the race that he went wide and gave the place back?that was the most exciting bit of the race that couple of laps and they do this as if to say if you try and push hard you will get nailed for it. yet they wonder why some people are put off formula one!

  4. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_coz View Post
    That made me chuckle! lol



    As a whole, I've got to say a pretty much agree with what you've said. It does seem like McLaren are at war with the FIA most of the time. Someting to do with Mosley and Ron Dennis having a tiff years ago. There are a few things that I'd point out from my view on what you've listed...

    As far as Massa's incident in the pits, that was touch and go. He did file in behind at the end. Even Blundell said that in his view he shouldn't have been penalised. I suppose this will be debatable.

    Kimi's incident at Monaco, I strongly disagree that he was let off. In my view it was a racing incident. Kimi lost control in the slippery conditions and hit Sutil in the rear. It wasn't done on purpose, it wasn't reckless driving. He lost control and couldn't avoid it. Now his flying exhaust on the other hand... something should have been done because that was bloody dangerous!

    Lewis hitting Kimi in the pits I think was justified punishment. Because Lewis didnt see the red light at the end of the pits which was there for safety reasons, is why he got punished for it. Same goes for Rosberg too (I think it was him that followed Hamilton).

    As for Heikki today, I didnt see the race so I cant comment. If Martin says that it was bad driving on Heikki's behalf, then maybe that was justified too?

    I remember Schumachers 10's penalty. The one at Silverstone? I think that they found a loophole in the rules which 'technically' allowed them to do that. Because it fell into a technicallity, the FIA couldn't do squat which is why they amended the rules straight after. I must admit that Ferrari in those days were finding a lot of these 'grey areas' in the rules and were getting away with a lot. Right or wrong... it happens in motorsport.

    They need to be more consistant with the punishments. Thats whats letting the sport down at the moment. In the past 2 years theres been some fantastic racing but its all clouded with last years Spygate and other little bits and pieces this year. The thing with F1 is that its a business nowadays. Not a sport so you'll get people pushing the rules to the limits and doing absolutly anything to win. At the end of the day winning means and thats what its all about unfortunately.
    Massa had to yield in the pits or he would have hit the barrier. Inexcusable, putting lives of guys at risk driving two abreast down pit like that.

    Raikonenen is F1 champ. If he did not know it was a bit slippy in Monacco he should have been going slower. Weird that commentators are singing sutils praises then brundle says, he's set for best ever finish "unless raikonene does something stupid......" Cue Raikonenen.
    Why did Kovalienen's incident not a "racing incident" today then.....? What about the Williams or BMW that had to avoid Glock at the same chicane on lap one today? What about the Williams joining the track in front of Hamilton and Raikonenen, all unpunished.....?!

    FIA are felching Ferrari and have been ever since Schumacher joined them.
    Allen Donnely "chief Steward", appointed by Mosely in 2007 is mean to be independent, and yet does PR for FIA though his PR company and also used to do it for Ferrari F1 and had them on his webstie as a client, but mysteriously, the testomany from them disappeared from his website when a few weeks after he became Mosely's hatchet man!

    Its shockingly cynical even for the FIA.

    BTW Donnelly sued some F1 magazine for libel a few years ago and won...........interestingly it was the same judge that heard his case as heard Mosely's "Bavarian spanking " case.What are the Odds, eh?

  5. #244
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    At least McLaren are going to appeal the decision, hope it works out for them...



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  6. #245
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    ^^ In my opinion


  7. #246
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    There is a petition running already (picked up from the PlanetF1 forum) :-

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe...ed.cgi?belgp08

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  8. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdus View Post
    You have to remember that Schumi was the master of rule bending, he was allowed to wipe out other cars to win championships and block people during qualifying etc etc. The list goes on of course, he had a few penalties, but nothing to stop him from being champion for 7 time.... so to be a winner, you have to be ruthless, not Mr.Nice, but Hamilton is changing all that....



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    What about Kimi Barrelling around the outside of that left hander on the slightly banked run off area, at full raqcing speed (accellerating too) in attrocious conditions and in what is a safety area to protect him, his competitiors and more importantly the crowd.
    He took about 200 yards out of Lewis who has also slipped wide, shut off, got back on track the shortest quickest route accross the big gree astroturf part and kerb, before accelerating! I watched it again last night, raikonen was using the run off area as racetrack, clearly, not run off!

    Good story unfolding on Planet F1 that says despite the tv screens (linked to race control remember) clearly stating incident between car 1 and 22 to be investigated, it appears Kimi was not investigated or interviewed by Stewards...!! Of course there is always two sides to a story, but it appears Donnelly served "justice" by just hearing one side this time!! Hahahaha, someone needs to tell Lewis he should not have said "oh no, guv, you've got me bang to rights, I did it guvnor, please forgive me". Clearly this would have meant there was no need to speak to Ferarri! ! !LOL

  10. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    so to be a winner, you have to be ruthless, not Mr.Nice, but Hamilton is changing all that....
    Spot on there. Senna was exactly the same. Hamilton has to be a bit ruthless too. He can't stay as F1's nice little boy for long. Hamilton will win championships... no doubt about it.

    As some will know I'm a Ferrari fan. I didnt agree with half the stuff that they did when MS was about. I centainly didn't agree with having Rubens and Massa playing second fiddle from the get go because it wasn't needed. He could have won the championships on his own and the way that he did win them, tainted them a bit.
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  11. #250
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    i laughed my cock off yesturday when lewis said " no body over takes me" then they did it twice. talk about a arrogant *******.

    arrogant
    adjective 1.making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official. 2.characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

    3. Lewis Shamilton.
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  12. #251
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    Niiki Lauda on yesterday's decision:

    Former Ferrari driver and triple world champion Niki Lauda hit out at the stewards' decision on Sunday to strip Lewis Hamilton of his Belgian Grand Prix victory.


    "This is the worst judgement in the history of F1,” he said. “It’s absolutely unacceptable when three (stewards) influence teh championship like this"


    http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...08103638.shtml
    ^^ In my opinion


  13. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBXdarkangel View Post
    i laughed my cock off yesturday when lewis said " no body over takes me" then they did it twice. talk about a arrogant *******.

    arrogant
    adjective 1.making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official. 2.characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

    3. Lewis Shamilton.
    DBX, instead of constantly putting the boy down, whats your opinion of this penalty thing? I'm keen to know what you think of Shamilton, did he do wrong? Was it a bad race for you because a Ferrari didn't win it?... actually they have won it now lol... Surely those last 5 laps was good entertainment for anyone who follows F1, no matter who you support right?



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  14. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBXdarkangel View Post
    i laughed my cock off yesturday when lewis said " no body over takes me" then they did it twice. talk about a arrogant *******.

    arrogant
    adjective 1.making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official. 2.characterized by or proceeding from arrogance: arrogant claims.

    3. Lewis Shamilton.

    Martin.

  15. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    DBX, instead of constantly putting the boy down, whats your opinion of this penalty thing? I'm keen to know what you think of Shamilton, did he do wrong? Was it a bad race for you because a Ferrari didn't win it?... actually they have won it now lol... Surely those last 5 laps was good entertainment for anyone who follows F1, no matter who you support right?
    Actually, thinking back, I think you're a McLaren fan, just not a Hamilton fan, but still... opinion?



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  16. #255
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    i'm not really a Hamilton fan but don't mind admiting when he does well, which he did. I didn't see the race as I was stuck at east midlands airport for over an hour waiting for a bag to appear along with 180 other people...god knows how they will cope when a GP comes to town ... anyway the first chance i got to see the inceident was on the news and i thought the stewards were right in giving him the penulty, however after watching the highlights I think they got it completely wrong and the 25 seconds was totaly unfair and just goes to show how biased the FIA are.

    I still want Massa to win this year, Hamilton has many years ahead of him and I don't think massa has many left.
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  17. #256
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    Well according to the PlanetF1 website Mclaren will be appealing against the decision.

    Edit: Also on Mclarens own website.

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  18. #257
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    Dont know if you guys know the latest but with all the FIA bashing thats been going on here, the FIA have turned round and said that McLaren are right in appealing the punishment. It was the race Stewards that gave the punishment... not the FIA. So the FIA are backing up McLaren on this too. Charlie Whiting and race control both said that what Hamilton did was correct and that no punishment should have been given. Maybe the Stewards forgot their glasses on race day...
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    cos of all the flack they are getting they are trying to distance themselves....but the stewards are FIA appointed stewards FFS!!

    Nothing will happen, they wont let them hear the appeal anyway.

  20. #259
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    I agree with Jacky Stewart, they should employ 1 full time team of stewards possibly with some ex racing drivers in the mix to travel to all the Grand Prix instead of having a different set of unpaid amuturs at each circuit. I've looked at the whole lap of onboard footage from both cars on youtube looks great from the cockpit.
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  21. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by willnabby View Post
    I agree with Jacky Stewart, they should employ 1 full time team of stewards possibly with some ex racing drivers in the mix to travel to all the Grand Prix instead of having a different set of unpaid amuturs at each circuit. I've looked at the whole lap of onboard footage from both cars on youtube looks great from the cockpit.
    I've seen that footage too and its awesome!!!

    The argument against a full time set of stewards is that they then become part of the F1 circus and they would then start having friendships with drivers. This would then become more messy when it comes to dealing out punishments as they would turn a blind eye to their favoured driver. It is hard to control but at the moment there is no consistancy.

    Heres something from one of the guys at the TG website...

    "Interesting that Hamilton has been penalised for his move at the Belgian GP. Im one of the dissenters Adam mentioned in his blog, by the way. I think its harsh and maybe not quite fair, but Im not surprised. He did a naughty thing and I blame Senna and Schumacher as much as Hamilton.


    But more on that later.

    When I saw that incident live, I - like many others, no doubt - shouted at the TV youve got to let him through, youve got to let him through, directed at Hamilton because he hadnt made the corner and shouldnt take advantage.

    I shouted that because I really wanted Hamilton to win and not get penalised - I liked the way he was hunting down Kimi. And Im a Kimi fan. Then I noticed that hed not backed off enough. That hed used the extra momentum and his cars position to give himself a better chance to attack Raikkonen at the hairpin. And at that point I thought sneaky little b*****d.

    I havent done much racing but Ive done enough to know that you cant get on the throttle at the same time as the car in front of you, if youre right behind him. Logic dictates that youll pass the point you can apply maximum throttle slightly after the guy in front does, that he will be able to get on the throttle earlier, and he will therefore accelerate at a greater rate as you head down the next straight. In this case, the straight wasnt long enough to allow slipstreaming to negate such a disadvantage.

    What Hamilton did, in the split seconds between being forced to cut the chicane and rejoining the track, was decide that he would get his car straight, get on the throttle early alongside Raikkonen, ease off JUST enough to make it look like hed eased off enough, then use his momentum to attack Raikkonen more effectively at the next corner. If youre being hard and not-quite-fair (maybe), Hamilton should be penalised for trying that on. It was a cynical, devious little piece of race craft.

    Ive looked at it time after time, and I cant think any differently. Sorry, everyone. It was the move of a cheat. Hamilton used the fact that hed missed the corner, and used the position of his car, to gain an advantage over Raikkonen that he wouldnt have had if hed exited the corner behind the Ferrari on the racing line.

    Hamilton has learned this sort of cunning from the likes of Senna and Schumacher. Especially the latter, who pushed the rules to the very edge whenever he could, then waited to see whether anything would be done about it. In this case, maybe Hamilton will think twice about such unfair play in the future. I hope so. Hes too talented to have to resort to cheating like this. Because I have no doubt - none whatsoever - that Hamilton was being unfair coming out of that corner. And deep down, I reckon he knows it too."

    Interesting view. I still maintain that to become a multiple champion you have to have a bit of sneak in you. Being a nice boy will make it much much harder.
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  22. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by simch View Post
    cos of all the flack they are getting they are trying to distance themselves....but the stewards are FIA appointed stewards FFS!!

    Nothing will happen, they wont let them hear the appeal anyway.
    That was all on raceday. It was when McLaren were double checking with CW and race control to make sure that what Lewis did was within the rules. They both said yes.
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  23. #262
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    Kimi's just renewed his contract with Ferrari until the end of 2010. I guess that ends speculation about Alonso moving there
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  24. #263
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    but the latest is he'll end up at bmw
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_coz View Post
    I've seen that footage too and its awesome!!!

    The argument against a full time set of stewards is that they then become part of the F1 circus and they would then start having friendships with drivers. This would then become more messy when it comes to dealing out punishments as they would turn a blind eye to their favoured driver. It is hard to control but at the moment there is no consistancy.

    Heres something from one of the guys at the TG website...

    "Interesting that Hamilton has been penalised for his move at the Belgian GP. Im one of the dissenters Adam mentioned in his blog, by the way. I think its harsh and maybe not quite fair, but Im not surprised. He did a naughty thing and I blame Senna and Schumacher as much as Hamilton.


    But more on that later.

    When I saw that incident live, I - like many others, no doubt - shouted at the TV youve got to let him through, youve got to let him through, directed at Hamilton because he hadnt made the corner and shouldnt take advantage.

    I shouted that because I really wanted Hamilton to win and not get penalised - I liked the way he was hunting down Kimi. And Im a Kimi fan. Then I noticed that hed not backed off enough. That hed used the extra momentum and his cars position to give himself a better chance to attack Raikkonen at the hairpin. And at that point I thought sneaky little b*****d.

    I havent done much racing but Ive done enough to know that you cant get on the throttle at the same time as the car in front of you, if youre right behind him. Logic dictates that youll pass the point you can apply maximum throttle slightly after the guy in front does, that he will be able to get on the throttle earlier, and he will therefore accelerate at a greater rate as you head down the next straight. In this case, the straight wasnt long enough to allow slipstreaming to negate such a disadvantage.

    What Hamilton did, in the split seconds between being forced to cut the chicane and rejoining the track, was decide that he would get his car straight, get on the throttle early alongside Raikkonen, ease off JUST enough to make it look like hed eased off enough, then use his momentum to attack Raikkonen more effectively at the next corner. If youre being hard and not-quite-fair (maybe), Hamilton should be penalised for trying that on. It was a cynical, devious little piece of race craft.

    Ive looked at it time after time, and I cant think any differently. Sorry, everyone. It was the move of a cheat. Hamilton used the fact that hed missed the corner, and used the position of his car, to gain an advantage over Raikkonen that he wouldnt have had if hed exited the corner behind the Ferrari on the racing line.

    Hamilton has learned this sort of cunning from the likes of Senna and Schumacher. Especially the latter, who pushed the rules to the very edge whenever he could, then waited to see whether anything would be done about it. In this case, maybe Hamilton will think twice about such unfair play in the future. I hope so. Hes too talented to have to resort to cheating like this. Because I have no doubt - none whatsoever - that Hamilton was being unfair coming out of that corner. And deep down, I reckon he knows it too."

    Interesting view. I still maintain that to become a multiple champion you have to have a bit of sneak in you. Being a nice boy will make it much much harder.
    SOunds like tripe fella tbh. I wont pick it apart piece by piece cos I cannot be arsed, but if you look at turn into the chicane, you will see one car in front of the other, and it was silver and it was on the racing line.
    So all your other conjecture seems immaterial tbh.
    LH yielded the spot, that is what the rules say, you say about "momentum", check your physics, momentum is basically mass x speed, assume cars both same weight, speed is the deciding factor and mclaren was 6.7km slower over the line, behind the ferrari.

    So mclaren goes into corner on racing line, in front of Ferrari.....ferrari cuts accross from off line, to online befroe 2nd apex, with mclaren alongside, macalren yields sideways, offtrack, rejoins, shorter distance, in front, off line, yiedls and crosses line behind ferrari.
    Tell me again how the car in front that is behind at the line gained an advantage....?
    And before you say mcaren was not in front at point of turn in, tell me, if the turn in point was the race finish line.....who would have won.......?

    It was a cynical biassed and proabably racist decision and the FiA and F1 are fools to think the public will put up with it. It's called racing and if you did a bit more you would know that!

  26. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by simch View Post
    So all your other conjecture seems immaterial tbh.
    You do realise that its not me that said all that right? lol It was a quote from the TG website. I agree with what you said. What LH did was legit in my eyes. Done it all by the book so they should have NO reason to strip him from his win! Especially after Charlie Whiting said that it was OK to begin with!
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  27. #266
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    I just hope Lewis wins by a royal mile this weekend so he can stick the preverbial finger up at the FIA lol.
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  28. #267
    SteveTDCi's Avatar
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    going on todays performance I cannot see him winning he was no where he cannot even use the rain as an excuse as others were setting faster times in the same conditions ...
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  29. #268
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    nuff said

    6. MASSA Ferrari

    8. ALONSO Renault

    15. HAMILTON McLaren

    goooo massa.
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  30. #269
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    massa was lucky, good old vettlel putting it on pole, shame about poor old kimi.
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  31. #270
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    Vettel did great, he's impressed almost as soon as he started F1 I'd say, but I'm hoping that Heikki can bring it home for Mclaren tomorrow , & it'll be good if we get some more wheel to wheel action from lewis & Kimi at the back.
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  32. #271
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBXdarkangel View Post
    nuff said

    6. MASSA Ferrari

    8. ALONSO Renault

    15. HAMILTON McLaren

    goooo massa.
    6. MASSA
    7. HAHAMILTON

    Nuff said!

    Great Drive by Sebastion Vettel from Pole all the way to a winning finish, congrats to him and Toro Rosso.
    Last edited by jojo; 14th September 2008 at 16:40.



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  33. #272
    willnabby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    congrats to him and Redbull.
    Toro Rosso!!! lol, he drove a perfect race though glad he won , definatley a superstar for the future, I was impressed with Lewis too It's a shame he had to make that extra pitstop for tyres or we could have seen a great battle up front with him and sebastian, never the less a great race.
    Martin.

  34. #273
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    i thought hamilton was a bit off today, twice he nearley pushed people out of the way, the worst being webber. Great to see Vettel on top although after having a few years without the italian and german national anthems it seems like we might have to start getting used to them again !!!

    Someone needs to boot kimi up the backside, he seems to make no effort at all, I still think massa will win the title and am having doubts as to wether hamilton will ever win it at all.
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  35. #274
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willnabby View Post
    Toro Rosso!!! lol, he drove a perfect race though glad he won , definatley a superstar for the future, I was impressed with Lewis too It's a shame he had to make that extra pitstop for tyres or we could have seen a great battle up front with him and sebastian, never the less a great race.
    Ooops, edited, I was watching a Redbull interview when was typing that haha.



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  36. #275
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    Now I didnt see quali but there was no way I was going to miss that race! I thought it was quite good. Still annoys me when they start a race under the safety car. What are these drivers paid to do? Where have the days gone where men were racing?!

    Having said that... well done to Vettel. I think he fully deserved it because whenever it rains his name is right up there with the best of them in a MUCH better car! No luck involved in his win, just great driving. I didnt see anything wrong with Hamiltons moves. Yes they were forceful, but you have to be at times. Thats what I liked about MS and what I like about LH. As they said on commentry... shades of Shumacher in his moves.

    I agree on Kimi. No idea what is going on there. Even more suprising that hes re-newed his contract until 2010! We know that Vettel is going to Red Bull next year. What the chances of him replacing Kimi when he leaves? Vettel and Schumi are great friends, his team at the mo is Ferrari powered... what do we think?
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  37. #276
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    its go to be sooner or later, i've read on another forum that when hamilton was asked about vettel's win he said oh, did he win, at the end of the race everyone seemed to slow and congratulate him except a certain person and when the parked in the winners space Alonso went it and congratulated Vettel, that I think is the sign of a true champion
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  38. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveTDCi View Post
    its go to be sooner or later, i've read on another forum that when hamilton was asked about vettel's win he said oh, did he win
    He knew fully well who won that race! Was this aired on TV? Because I left straight after the flag fell. How reliable is this info because I really dont like the sound of that...
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  39. #278
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    I can't remember it going like that "oh did he win" more like" I think sebastian won didn'the?", but I'll watch highlights to double check, lol.
    Martin.

  40. #279
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    He asked if it was sebastian that won & then said congratulations to sebastian via the interviewer.
    Last edited by willnabby; 15th September 2008 at 02:44.
    Martin.

  41. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by willnabby View Post
    He asked if sebastian won & then said congratulations to sebastian.
    Thank god for that, I thought DBX was going to have a field day then, and I would have joined him.



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