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Thread: N249 Bypass How To (2000 S3 - but same for many)

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    I put my old bailey dv30 this way and ended up spliting a pipe on full boost the turbo screams like a strangled budgie now. Gauge is still reading 1.4 but you can feel it lagging unless you either feather in the turbo or plant it and lift halfway off, the pressure does drop to a bar of boost but you can feel her pick up again. Just noticed laat night after doing the by pass ive lost 2 psi now have i done something rong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_sarah View Post
    I see you have the Diverter Valve a different way round to mine! Is this how they are suppose to be fitted? Or does it boost better that way?
    I put my old bailey dv30 this way and ended up spliting a pipe on full boost the turbo screams like a strangled budgie now. Gauge is still reading 1.4 but you can feel it lagging unless you either feather in the turbo or plant it and lift halfway off, the pressure does drop to a bar of boost but you can feel her pick up again. Just noticed laat night after doing the by pass ive lost 2 psi now have i done something rong.

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    Thanks very much for this Welly!!! Just done it on my car... feels more responsive! Sounds better too! Feels quicker, but not sure that it's just the placibo effect or not!! lol!

    Cheers
    Sam


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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    N249 Bypass.

    Car: 2000 S3 with APY.

    Time taken: Approx 1 hour 30 mins (would have been less but we were messing about, and broke something).



    Attempted by: Welly & his mate Jonny.

    Needed: 4mm internal diameter vac hose. Allen keys. 10 MM socket. T piece.

    Difficulty: A trained chimp could complete.

    OK. This isn�t a difficult task, and to anyone with even a flicker of mechanical know-how will, (once knowing what pipe is what) have this done with ease.

    Pros and Cons:

    Pros: It sharpens up DV response and eliminates the possibility of the ECU dumping boost mid rev (using the DV anyway).

    Cons: Limits the ways that the ECU has to control overboost (although the N75 & MAP sensor will keep the ECU in the know and in control). Also, it removes one of the ways that the Traction Control uses to limit power.

    The three items in question are a) the re-circ valve b) the N249 valve and c) the N112 valve (not on AMK or BAM engines)

    So, let�s begin�.

    Engine cover off�.



    N249 is readily obvious on the APY engine as shown in image 1.



    In image 2 you can see the three pipes that we need to keep on the engine.



    Image 3 simply shows the vac chamber that we will be getting rid of.

    Removal of the metal plate attached to the inlet manifold is necessary at this point � two Allen key bolts. Forgot to note what size � sorry. Be VERY careful when removing plate as it has a lug which connects onto the dipstick shroud � this will usually be brittle and easily broken (that�s why mine isn�t there. But I broke that fitting an alternator. It�s been temporarily replaced with a wine bottle cork� Pro bodge!).



    Image 4 is showing you the underside of said metal plate. N112 pipe work is readily visible. Cut pipe to N249 as close to the nipple as possible. If replacing vac line to SAI also (if you have a bit of spare hose) the cut the second vac line. If not, simply pull off (be careful not to damage valve � more on this later)



    Image 5 shows the pipe to the N249 that was cut off in the previous step. This will need to be cut back � but not yet.



    Image 6 shows cutting into the vac feed from the inlet manifold. Again, will need to be cut for a good fit, but not yet.



    As shown in image 7, once this line is cut, you can unbolt the vac chamber (1 x 10mm bolt) and remove from the car along with the valve and pipe assembly.



    Once out of the car, remove the clips from the two pipes connected to the N249 valve and pull free. Keep somewhere handy (and clean if you have OCD).



    Image 10 is trying to show a few bits all at once� T piece connecting (top) Recirc vac line (left) vac feed from inlet manifold (bottom) Vac feed to N112 valve.

    It is worth mentioning here that you CAN T into the FPR vac line for the N112. I didn�t however based on the fact that I don�t like putting anything into the FPR vac line � in case of leak. Ultimately meaning lean fuelling.



    Refit N249 valve to rocker cover as shown in image 11. Make sure you reconnect wire.



    I replaced second N112 vac line to the SAI with silicone for good measure�. You don�t have to do this.



    As mentioned before, this is the repair that we had to make to my N112 valve after the nipple breaking off�. 1 x T Piece pipe cut down and plastic welded to the snapped stub.



    Reconnect N112 pipe work in the same way it was removed � one to the new T piece and one to the SAI. Ensure N112 electrical plug is refitted.

    Remove all equipment from engine bay and start engine.

    Local test.

    You should notice improved DV response at gear change, as it no longer has a third party interfering. You SHOULD NOT have any warning lights etc with this bypass. If you do stop and check all plugs correctly refitted.

    Job Done.

    Please note that SOME (I'm not fully aware of what engine codes) 1.8T engines have the N249 valve on the underside of the attached plate (next to N112 valve). The basic process for those is the same, you'll just have to figure out what pipes correspond to the pictures... And count yourselves lucky that yours is hidden!!

    If anyone spots anything I've missed, please add it.

    (NB. I take no responsibility for any damage you do whilst attempting this mod. But you should be fine!)
    Ok maybe im being a bit thick here but I have AMK engine S3, if not needing the T-piece I run a single piece of pipe from the DV valve to N249, then from the N249 to where please, and what happens to that Vac feed from inlet pipe that you cut Where does it go or come from and do I have to change or take it out where do I put that if I havent got one of those n112 valves.

    Sorry if its obvious I just cant see it
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    im looking at doing this next weekend while I do the TIP and jetex. Will 1 meter of 4mm vac hose will suffice or do I need more??
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhubarb4 View Post
    Ok maybe im being a bit thick here but I have AMK engine S3, if not needing the T-piece I run a single piece of pipe from the DV valve to N249, then from the N249 to where please, and what happens to that Vac feed from inlet pipe that you cut Where does it go or come from and do I have to change or take it out where do I put that if I havent got one of those n112 valves.

    Sorry if its obvious I just cant see it
    The AMK is very easy to do. As you said, you don't have the N112 valve for the SAI, so all you need to do is run a vac hose from the inlet manifold direct to the DV.

    Same principle, but just a straight pipe from the inlet mani nipple to the top of the DV.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1LFH View Post
    im looking at doing this next weekend while I do the TIP and jetex. Will 1 meter of 4mm vac hose will suffice or do I need more??
    Depends on the engine....
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    Welly, from your comment 2 above, am i right in saying for the AMK engine there is no T piece needed then? Just 4mm vac hose direct from the inlet mani to the DV? Do any other pipes need blocked off etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5ean View Post
    Welly, from your comment 2 above, am i right in saying for the AMK engine there is no T piece needed then? Just 4mm vac hose direct from the inlet mani to the DV? Do any other pipes need blocked off etc?
    Nope, no blocking required. The only thing you are doing is bypassing the N249 mess.

    When removing all those hoses, you just take them out of the equation. All the DV needs is a vac source from the inlet manifold, so one pipe from the inlet mani to the DV is fine.

    Simples.
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    So once I've done that I can pull all the N249 crap out yeah? Or will the ecu throw a wobbly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5ean View Post
    So once I've done that I can pull all the N249 crap out yeah? Or will the ecu throw a wobbly?
    Yes, but disconnect the valve from the pipes and leave the valve there. That will keep the ECU happy.
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    so how would this work on an ARY engine same as the TT i looked on the mkivs forum and they have just took the pipe from the top of the dv and tee'd into the fpr job done would this be right.

    its the mkivs link you put up welly think its on the things to do for free thread will find it a paste it in ere







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    Quote Originally Posted by paul syverson View Post
    so how would this work on an ARY engine same as the TT i looked on the mkivs forum and they have just took the pipe from the top of the dv and tee'd into the fpr job done would this be right.

    its the mkivs link you put up welly think its on the things to do for free thread will find it a paste it in ere
    I wouldn't be teeing into the FPR line personally.

    Firstly, that leaves you with a nipple on the inlet manifold which is useless.

    Secondly, I discourage anyone from teeing into the FPR vac line because it increases to potential for leaks. The FPR on the 1.8T is rising rate. If you have a leak in the vac/boost line to the FPR, you won't be getting the correct amount of fuel. Which is bad. Very bad.

    Up to you ultimately, however it's not something I would do.
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    so should i go off the top of the dv and go into the spare nipple on the inlet as i have fitted a catch can so the nipple behind the dip stick is pluged and i have also pluged the other nipple as my pcv valve conected to both i also have a pipe which comes from the tip which conected to the nipple on the inlet i blocked this off as was unsure to put to the nipple on the inlet.

    as shown in pic. (its the pipe next to the red circle that follows the fpr line.



    so if it conected the pipe from the top of the dv would i then tee the pipe for the tip into that and conect into the spare nipple?

    also i have the boost guage in the fpr at the mo so if i did the above would i then tee into the same line and use this for the boost guage?







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    i only have two nipple on the inlet manifold 1 behind the dip stick and one right next to that one my engine code is ARY







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    Quote Originally Posted by paul syverson View Post
    i only have two nipple on the inlet manifold 1 behind the dip stick and one right next to that one my engine code is ARY
    In which case, I guess you don't have much choice dude.
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    the nipple to the right hand side of the one behind the dipstick is free so could i tee the spare pipe coming from the tip into the pipe coming from the top of the dv and conect into this spare nipple.

    then could i tee into the pipe coming from the dv and use this for my boost guage instead of the fpr.

    i hope this makes sense







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    Quote Originally Posted by paul syverson View Post
    the nipple to the right hand side of the one behind the dipstick is free so could i tee the spare pipe coming from the tip into the pipe coming from the top of the dv and conect into this spare nipple.

    then could i tee into the pipe coming from the dv and use this for my boost guage instead of the fpr.

    i hope this makes sense
    That sounds like the best plan to me dude if I'm honest.
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    ok will do that at the weekend think ive got about a meter of tubing so may just do atch will go awesome and get some more tubing winner. cheers for the help welly hows the car with the new turbo bet some people are looking at ya funny when you just breeze past them when they trying to race ya lol







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    Quote Originally Posted by paul syverson View Post
    ok will do that at the weekend think ive got about a meter of tubing so may just do atch will go awesome and get some more tubing winner. cheers for the help welly hows the car with the new turbo bet some people are looking at ya funny when you just breeze past them when they trying to race ya lol
    My mate in his 172 Cup Clio (tuned to 198 BHP - goes like stink) came up along side me, then I waved and buried it and disappeared.

    He refuses to come out in the S3 for fear of his life.

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    lmao a m8 of mine used to have a evo 5 that was running 450bhp thats was very scary as he used to brake at last minute he had the standard brembo calipers but the discs and pads were epic they would stop the car on a 10p.

    that used to scare the **** out of me that was untill i got behind the wheel of a gt3 from me bro's work that was a track slag and had been tuned to death think its was around 6-700 bhp omg i couldnt get out of the first two gears driving it about as it was just that fast and on r888 that thing was an animal around the streets and track.

    it allways makes me want to do what you have done to urs but its just money 350-400bhp in mine i dont think i would ever sell it but pricing things up i dont know how you afford it mate it would be mega £££££ for me to get mine any where near urs







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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    The AMK is very easy to do. As you said, you don't have the N112 valve for the SAI, so all you need to do is run a vac hose from the inlet manifold direct to the DV.

    Same principle, but just a straight pipe from the inlet mani nipple to the top of the DV.
    Thanks Welly, even me being a trained chimp have done it lol only took 20mins, bonus. Oh and a sore thumb due to spring going under my nail

    Cheers, Chris.
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    Just had a look at doing this and its baffled me again I can see what needs to be done, but how do i get to the underside of the manifold where the vac hose plugs in to? Also, how do i get that silly little clips off? There's nowhere near enough room to get in about with hands to pull the pipe off nevermind putting a new clip back on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5ean View Post
    Just had a look at doing this and its baffled me again I can see what needs to be done, but how do i get to the underside of the manifold where the vac hose plugs in to? Also, how do i get that silly little clips off? There's nowhere near enough room to get in about with hands to pull the pipe off nevermind putting a new clip back on!
    What engine mate?
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    AMK.. I know its a straight hose from the dv to the inlet mani but the hose is directly under the mani by the looks of it and impossible to get to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5ean View Post
    AMK.. I know its a straight hose from the dv to the inlet mani but the hose is directly under the mani by the looks of it and impossible to get to?
    Nothing is impossible mate, it's tight I admit, but it can be done.....
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    Anyone in the Aberdeen region who has done this fancy some beer token for half an hours work??

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    do you need any clips to secure the hose or can you push on and thats fine?
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    so with the AMK you run a pipe from the Inlet mani to the DV and then just disconnect all the rest of the malarky and the N249 with no pipes connected just plugged in tucked away somewhere???



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    may be a silly question but does this work with the agu engine?
    Audi A3 1.8T Auto few mods lined up but looking to clean up first few bits still needed.

    FRONT FACELIFT HEAD LIGHTS - FRONT ASHTRAY - SEAT RAIL PLASTICS -
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  33. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incarsouthwest View Post
    may be a silly question but does this work with the agu engine?
    No, there isnt an N249 on the agu.
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    thanks mate

    has any one made a how to guide onb removing the charcoal filter please, ?
    Audi A3 1.8T Auto few mods lined up but looking to clean up first few bits still needed.

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  35. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incarsouthwest View Post
    thanks mate

    has any one made a how to guide onb removing the charcoal filter please, ?
    Not a guide per se, but I did show how to do it in my hybrid build thread. I'll have a look for it now.
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  36. #75
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    Link: Another hybrid conversion thread....

    Post 1192 about halfway down.
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  37. #76
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    thanks mate
    Audi A3 1.8T Auto few mods lined up but looking to clean up first few bits still needed.

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    forgive me if im being a muppet, i want to bypass the N249 mess as my 2002 BAM s3 is throwing up fault code 17608 N249-bypass valve mechanical malfunction, and binning boost. looking at the hoses, the hose going into the underside of my inlet mani is smaller than the hose going into the top of my DV so how do i run a hose from the inlet mani to the DV

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    forgive me if im being stupid but looking at my BAM engine bay the hose coming up from inlet mani is smaller than the hose into the top of the DV so how do i run one hose if the hoses on here are different sizes?

  40. #79
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    Just had a quick read through this but cant find any pics or info from anyone who'd wired in a resistor instead of refitting the N249 valve. I've got nowhere to fit it as I've removed my hanging bracket.
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  41. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westy View Post
    Just had a quick read through this but cant find any pics or info from anyone who'd wired in a resistor instead of refitting the N249 valve. I've got nowhere to fit it as I've removed my hanging bracket.
    Extend the wiring and cable tie it elsewhere mate - resistors are not good practice IMHO. They get hot and cause problems.
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