Thread: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Originally Posted by sidibear

She is cowering in a cupboard and he is approaching her with a crowbar raised ready to attack. At what point do you end the negotiation and take action?

After shouting "I've got a gun and will shoot you through the heart if you don't leave now".

Originally Posted by sidibear

Most firearms self protection training will show you to put the first shot into the shoulder. You take action to eleminate the threat, when the threat is no longer there you stop taking action.

In the heat of the moment with the adrenaline flowing I wonder how many "shoulders" will become foreheads.

Originally Posted by sidibear

Why is it that you have to take the bad guys rights into account? Why should they have more rights than you to defend yourself against them?

I don't think they have more rights. I just think that having guns in the house is going to end up in a lot of cases with people who shouldn't be shot getting shot.
Let's say you hear someone breaking into your house, you crap yourself, hide in a dark cupboard, hear the burgular coming into your room, they walk to the cupboard that you are in, open the door, you fire into their stomach, you look down at the body..... it's a silly little 12 year old going through a silly stage in his life where he thinks it's "cool" to nick a bit of jewelery etc.
Surely this kid had the right not to die there and then?

Originally Posted by sidibear

In the UK we have to ask them to leave nicely without raising your voice in case you traumatize them, because lets face it, any action you take to defend yourself will more than likely end you up in court. And that's wrong.

Slight exaggeration but I get your point.
I just think that people breaking into your house probably don't deserve killing from the off.
Injured quite badly, yes. But dead, not straight away.

Originally Posted by aythreee

I just think that people breaking into your house probably don't deserve killing from the off.
Injured quite badly, yes. But dead, not straight away..........

Agree. Wound them first then take them away from your property to a secluded spot and then kill them?

Is that what you meant?

Sidibear...

What I'd like to know is how the heck have you got so many hand guns. As a UK resisdent hand guns are illegal under section 5 - prohibited weapons of the firearms law. This applies to any firearm with an overall length of less than 30 cm.

Originally Posted by The Maestro

Agree. Wound them first then take them away from your property to a secluded spot and then kill them?

Is that what you meant?

Nope, no death at all.
Otherwise it's a waste of a knee-capping.

Originally Posted by auroan

Sidibear...

What I'd like to know is how the heck have you got so many hand guns. As a UK resisdent hand guns are illegal under section 5 - prohibited weapons of the firearms law. This applies to any firearm with an overall length of less than 30 cm.

Wrong.

And its the Firearms Act, not the firearms law.

Just to add some clarification...

You can have a licence for a small calibre pistol, you can use them in gun clubs, you can have them or target shooting etc.

As long as you're all legal, have the licence, shoot for sport and dont run about holding it sideways in the street shaking your hands around like a rapper you can have them.

They're no more legal or illegal than any shot gun, rifle etc....you just have to have the correct authority to have one.

Originally Posted by aythreee

Nope, no death at all.
Otherwise it's a waste of a knee-capping.

Or a Kerbing! Nasty

@Auroan. I have three shotguns, one hunting rifle, one military bolt action rifle, One underlever rifle (gallery rifle), one semi auto rifle (.22lr), one Carbine pistol (34" long), One long barreled revolver (25" long) and two single shot pistols (26" long, .357mag / .44mag, different scoring for different calibres in competitions).
In storage in the USA I have a HK MK23 and a Sig P226X5. I have a ccw for all states except Maryland and Calif and an open carry permit in states that allow it.

Some feel the UK guns laws are very restrictive, but if you want to shoot there is a very wide choice of what you can possess. The criminal fraternity don't seem to bother applying for a license though. A section five license is available for handguns with lots of restrictions and a section seven for historic (over 100yrs) or curiosity guns, like a one off design or an unusual action.
Firearms license holders have to be very law abiding or face losing their license, even a speeding conviction could go against a renewal. After all, if you can't be trusted to drive within the law how can you be trusted with a gun?

Originally Posted by A3Tom

Wrong.

And its the Firearms Act, not the firearms law.

I'm aware of that Tom, just typed law instead of Act by mistake. I hold a licence for a shotgun and .22 rifle so aware of the different variences of what is and isn't allowed. I was querying sidibear as from previous posts I thought he owned several handguns, which come under section 5. However, he's cleared that up so all's good.

@Auroan, what have you got? My .22lr is a Remmington VTR. My Shotguns are a Browning Cynergy black Ice, a 1939 Browning A5 semi and a Benelli Supernova pump.

Rottweil 650 Game Shot and a Miroku BL-22, neither are anything special, and only for keeping my hand in since leaving the forces.

Nice choice with the Rotweil. The Miroku is a strange choice for a 22, don't see many underlevers in that calibre. Tried to cycle it one handed yet, John Wayne style? I tried it with a Marlin and nearly twisted my fingers off

Originally Posted by sidibear

Tried to cycle it one handed yet, John Wayne style? I tried it with a Marlin and nearly twisted my fingers off

Nope, got images of swinging it round and wacking my self in the face, so stay'd clear of doing that. The Miroku was a cheap rifle that hardly get's used. Tend to stick to pheasent shoots etc as by black lab is currently going through a lot of gundog training.

Lesson to self....Sidi is packing some serious heat!

Originally Posted by A3Tom

Lesson to self....Sidi is packing some serious heat!

I am quite good too



I shoot county and I am currently eigth.

But, and this is a big but, to get to the level I am now involved over 20 years of shooting. I used to teach people tactical shooting and my training and gaining experience for that was around 4 years. I don't expect anyone to do a three months probations course at a gun club and be able to defend themselves with a firearm if they had the chance because what would happen is they would be the one who gets shot or shoots the wrong person.
Soldiers and armed police do not just get issued with a gun and be expected to use it effectively, they are trained to work with it in various situations. And that's not just something you do in a few days.

Our firearms lads spend an epic amount of time training, I'd say its close to being 50/50 with being out and about.

The training facility is awesome too, massive indoor range that you can drive vehicles into, has street lighting, normal lighting and all sorts of settings to replicate pretty much any scenario you can imagine....top bit of kit.

well tbh i would find it very hard to kill for no reason and would never dream of doing it , however in the rules in the bible it says if a man breaks into your house and you kill him in the process its not a sin , you are in defence of your family and are totally in the right , he or they shouldnt be there ..

So i go by gods law i may end up in prison , but if my house was entered and i was awake , it would be a serious matter , forget the police many time's people i know have been robbed or jacked , even shot where the police ..probably at the end of the motorway collecting speed fines for end of year stats ...

Originally Posted by sidibear

I have three shotguns, one hunting rifle, one military bolt action rifle, One underlever rifle (gallery rifle), one semi auto rifle (.22lr), one Carbine pistol (34" long), One long barreled revolver (25" long) and two single shot pistols (26" long, .357mag / .44mag, different scoring for different calibres in competitions).
In storage in the USA I have a HK MK23 and a Sig P226X5. I have a ccw for all states except Maryland and Calif and an open carry permit in states that allow it.

Some feel the UK guns laws are very restrictive, but if you want to shoot there is a very wide choice of what you can possess. The criminal fraternity don't seem to bother applying for a license though. A section five license is available for handguns with lots of restrictions and a section seven for historic (over 100yrs) or curiosity guns, like a one off design or an unusual action.
Firearms license holders have to be very law abiding or face losing their license, even a speeding conviction could go against a renewal. After all, if you can't be trusted to drive within the law how can you be trusted with a gun?

Jesus - this is how the psych profile of those crazed peeps reads after they shot up the street.

Where do you live? Ah, well away from me. Cool!

Lol

@Maestro, I live some way from you but that does not mean I don't shoot anywhere near you. Hythe Ranges ring a bell? And if you knew all my qualifications and what I used to do then you will feel a lot safer.

@Tom, I have only been there once to collect some guns, I was offered an opportunity to shoot there but I was away at the time. Some of the intensive training involves strobe lights, loud noises and people thowing things at you. As well as being able to do it both left and right handed, standing on one leg etc. It can be very hard going but most of all it is highly entertaining for those watching and waiting their turn.

Originally Posted by sidibear

Maestro, I live some way from you but that does not mean I don't shoot anywhere near you. Hythe Ranges ring a bell? And if you knew all my qualifications and what I used to do then you will feel a lot safer.

Did you load and fire your sense of humour? I was joking. I reckon you're either very highly trained and sensible with the desire to tell us so; or a complete lunatic. I err on the former :-)

Maestro, the laughing smiley didn't work.
I am definitely the former

Originally Posted by sidibear

I am definitely the former

Which smilie? As I said, the former

Maestro, turn up the volume for the full effect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amKtKReoJ4g

Is that you?

Originally Posted by The Maestro

Is that you?

Originally Posted by sidibear

So I take it you've since perfected your stance?

Nope, it evolved into that since I had an injury to my cervical spine and works fine for me. I used to be left handed and now have to shoot from the right.

Originally Posted by sidibear

Nope, it evolved into that since I had an injury to my cervical spine and works fine for me. I used to be left handed and now have to shoot from the right.

"Improvise, overcome and adapt."

Well done