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  1. #1
    warren_S5's Avatar
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    Wink Monkey Coffee/Toast/Watches/Sony/Tabasco/Trainers/Merge/Multi-tool/The List/Confusion

    Well folks, this weekend could see a goodbye from me.

    I'm swimming in a pool of indecision as I have the chance to change for either an S5 V8 (the practical pimp daddy choice), or a Cayman S 3.4 (the fun but slightly underpowered choice).

    Winning the ADI fast laps was a bit of a poison chalice. Ever since then I've been yearning some more cylinders and cubic capacity.

    The two cars I'm looking at are polar opposites, and the hard part is I love them both for completely different reasons.

    Obviously this means the S3 will be part ex-d in, and all the mods (except the Revo switch as the new car will be Revo'd) will be sold off.

    I've really enjoyed being on here, and all the information, support and general banter thats been had. If I get the S5 there is very much of a chance I'll still be popping by, but with the other maybe less so.

    There is a chance that I'll not get to strike the right financial deal on either car as I'm pushing hard on values, which means I'll still be in the S3 until Feb 2010, but if that's a case then I could be sat in a lot worse than the S3 which despite it's faults has been a blinding little car.
    Last edited by warren_S5; 28th October 2009 at 08:30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrencox View Post
    or a Cayman S 3.4 V6 (the fun but slightly underpowered choice).
    First things first, the Cayman is not underpowered, and will be an absolute class above the S3 in every single aspect, you would not regret buying that. I had one on long term loan, and it was quite simply sublime, much like the Boxster but a bit more refined feeling and some more power.

    But please....a V6??? don't ever repeat such words!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    First things first, the Cayman is not underpowered, and will be an absolute class above the S3 in every single aspect, you would not regret buying that. I had one on long term loan, and it was quite simply sublime, much like the Boxster but a bit more refined feeling and some more power.

    But please....a V6??? don't ever repeat such words!!!
    Oops, tired, meant flat 6!
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    I would go for the cayman personally. It's the most logical progression from the S3, cause the S5 is too big and bulky and won't be as fun as the S3 to drive, where the cayman will be a real drivers car and will just be that little bit more than the S3.
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    As much as I like the look of the S5, If you dont need 4 seats then it has to be the Porsche IMO.

    (Please lets not make this another S3 `v` Cayman, thread....where us S3 owners get `educated` on how dull our cars are....)

    Happy shopping, I could think of worse dilemnas to have....

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    Great news Warren! Tough to chose between those two cars but I think I would go for the Cayman personally.
    Last edited by Staz; 28th October 2009 at 09:32.
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    Cayman is more of the drivers car, isn't the 3.0TDI Quattro A5 (mapped) meant to be quicker than the S5, reviews I've read said its underpowered? Who knows I've driven a Cayman S, the chassis is immense, Porsches are in a different league to Audis, the next league up I'd say.

    Although when I drove the Cayman, it doesn't feel as quick as it should do, feels they've held back on the engine, which is why I love turbos as easy to tune..

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    Bitter sweet Warren as your excellent write ups will be missed, but I am with the general concensus that the Porker would be a good choice over the S5. Or...buy a cheap run around and an Elise/Exige.... A visit to Stattler afterwards?

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by N8KOW View Post
    Who knows I've driven a Cayman S, the chassis is immense, Porsches are in a different league to Audis, the next league up I'd say.
    I'd say about 4 or 5 leagues up

    If you don't need the extra chairs get the Cayman. *scratches heed* just spent Cayman (non-S) money on a 1 series. Oops but I do actually need the chairs, drat!
    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

  11. #10
    NHN
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    Its very simple really, if you dont need more than 2 seats mate, cayman for sure, its actually the 1st porsche that I can honestly say I like everytime I see it.

    This has remnants of an older cayman thread, was it GCONN or someone who was debating, cant recall 100%.

    But if you want advise on the S5, talk to Damian@dpm as he has one.
    Last edited by NHN; 28th October 2009 at 10:52.

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  13. #12
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    Down to the seats really, if you don't need them I'd go Cayman but that V8 in the S5 sounds immense when mated to a Milltek, what an awful position to be in !!
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    I'd say about 4 or 5 leagues up

    If you don't need the extra chairs get the Cayman. *scratches heed* just spent Cayman (non-S) money on a 1 series. Oops but I do actually need the chairs, drat!
    If you need 4 use-able chairs the 1er is the wrong car also......

    ...unless of course you plan to transport umputees in the rear, sideways, to a 6 cylinder soundtrack..... then its poi-fect.

    (ahem...sorry off topic)

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  15. #14
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    Go for the Porche mate. You know you want to
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    If you need 4 use-able chairs the 1er is the wrong car also......

    ...unless of course you plan to transport umputees in the rear, sideways, to a 6 cylinder soundtrack..... then its poi-fect.

    (ahem...sorry off topic)

    Paul
    I've sat in the back of a 1er and it's ok...I wouldn't be able to sit behind myself if I was driving though if you know what I mean but such a situation is unlikely to arise! The main thing is, the rear chairs are there in spirit if not body and if anyone complains that heir little leggy-wegs hurt then they can f*****g walk, I'm not driving an Espace just so my passengers can have business-class legroom The driver fits like a glove, that's the main thing!

    Plus, I occasionally need to cart stuff that just won't fit in a Cayman, damn shame.

    Chuckled again because of you Paul, bloody comedian
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    Been following this thread on SCN with interest, what about a nice S5 drop top though?
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  18. #17
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    I dont think that either the S5 or the Cayman are comparable to be honest, they are two different cars. The argument of Cayman vs. S3 is not even worth bothering with, aside form the practicality fact, i'd have another Porsche if it would fit my bikes in it (aside from a Cayenne).

    The S5 would be a great motorway cruiser, kind of Q car type thing, what Audi do best basically. I have an A5 at the moment, and to imagine it with a nice 4.2 V8 in it would be great, but I can't imgaine it setting my world alight on the twisties.

    A Cayman, like any naturally aspirated Porsche, doesn't feel fast like a forced induction car, that was my first impressions with my first Porker, but dont be fooled by the linear power delivery. They feel alive in your hands in a way that is hard to desricbe and have a great balance with their mid engine RWD layout, but they are not as practical or as comfortable as the A5 / S5. And, they are surprisingly noisey if i'm honest.

    I'd have another Porsche tomorrow though if I could...one day I will...
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    I'd go for the S5 and then supercharge it, caymans look like boxsters and arent at all easy to tune. Porsche services are expensive and you dont have four wheel drive.... besides you can pick up straight line speed in anything at the end of the day but all around all weather action and traction S5..

  20. #19
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    How about a S5 convertible, and dont they come fitted with the supercharged 3 litre from the new S4 that would be nice.

    Cant really comment on the cayman as i havnt had any experience of them but everybody who has raves on about them cant all be wrong i suppose, not sold on the looks though.

    Have u driven either/both?
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    Warren, Have a read of this thread You may change you mind about the B8 S4.


  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3GG View Post
    ...caymans look like boxsters

    ...And boxsters are a poor mans 996 mate.

    What else is on your shortlist besides the Cayman and S5?
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    911 (996) Turbo, but you are straying into much older territory.

    Foolishly (and I do tend to presume at times), I thought the 2nd hand car market was on it's backside. That in tandem with the fact that winter is on the way foolishly left me thinking I have some bargaining power.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to dealers and asking for a 2006/56 Cayman S for 25k, I'm happy to pay 30k for one with a part ex on mine at 19k, but at the moment they're just turning their noses up as if my custom isn't worth their effort (as if they could be dealing with proper customers rather than ones that try to 'do a bit of a deal'). Maybe bartering in the Porsche world is seen as ill mannered, but I'm not paying full price out of principle as they will be getting the finance deal and extended warranty money.

    Went to see an S5 at lunchtime which was one owner from new, 12k miles, and on paper sounded a dream (at 34k). Got there and it was lowered onto it's arches, wheel spacers were causing vibration through the front end, the seats were scuffed, it was slightly scratched, and it looked like it had NEVER been cleaned in its life. When the chap asked me why I wasn't going to buy it he thought I was mad. I wouldn't have given him 30k in that condition.

    I'm amazed by how expensive some of the current 2nd hand cars are. I'm starting to think this whole crusade is misguided, and maybe I need another 10k to get my budget to 42k to get something properly decent.
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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkp0897 View Post
    ...And boxsters are a poor mans 996 mate.

    That old chestnut, I dread to think what that makes S3 drivers then if Boxsters are for the poor.
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    That old chestnut, I dread to think what that makes S3 drivers then if Boxsters are for the poor.


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    Still loving the 130i like the sideways dirtbag I am

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrencox View Post
    Foolishly (and I do tend to presume at times), I thought the 2nd hand car market was on it's backside.
    Apparently, and i'm not sure how true this is, but it sounded convincing enough to me..

    The secondhand car market has not taken the dip in prices that everybody expected during this time of recession, the theory goes that people are keeping their cars longer, so when their 2 or 3 year finance deal comes to an end, instead of chopping it in and getting a new car, they hold onto it for longer to save the pennies, which means that the 2-3 year old seconhand car market is less supplied than it was, and I guess the rest goes on the supply vs. demand = price....less of those age cars about, still a demand for them so price stays the same or even increases.

    Especially true I would have thought for the middle rung marques such as Porsche Cayman, S5s etc...
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  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrencox View Post
    911 (996) Turbo, but you are straying into much older territory.

    Foolishly (and I do tend to presume at times), I thought the 2nd hand car market was on it's backside. That in tandem with the fact that winter is on the way foolishly left me thinking I have some bargaining power.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to dealers and asking for a 2006/56 Cayman S for 25k, I'm happy to pay 30k for one with a part ex on mine at 19k, but at the moment they're just turning their noses up as if my custom isn't worth their effort (as if they could be dealing with proper customers rather than ones that try to 'do a bit of a deal'). Maybe bartering in the Porsche world is seen as ill mannered, but I'm not paying full price out of principle as they will be getting the finance deal and extended warranty money.

    Went to see an S5 at lunchtime which was one owner from new, 12k miles, and on paper sounded a dream (at 34k). Got there and it was lowered onto it's arches, wheel spacers were causing vibration through the front end, the seats were scuffed, it was slightly scratched, and it looked like it had NEVER been cleaned in its life. When the chap asked me why I wasn't going to buy it he thought I was mad. I wouldn't have given him 30k in that condition.

    I'm amazed by how expensive some of the current 2nd hand cars are. I'm starting to think this whole crusade is misguided, and maybe I need another 10k to get my budget to 42k to get something properly decent.
    As said two different animals. If you like a few track days then the Cayman S has to be the choice, forget BHP as it will all make sense when your on the twisties. S5 V8, a great all round car and mile muncher with a nice sound track.

    FYI, if you buy a used Porsche from main dealer the extended warranty worth 1250 will be part of the screen price.

    I don't think your far out on money you want to spend but the deals are to be had on a private purchase if you could manage that route? For 35k you are looking at 997's, even less with a few miles on them but I'd personally give the latter a miss. If you do lean towards Porsche it needs to have all the right factory toys on for resale. As beanoir said Porsche has linear power so feels different to a Turbo.

    Time to test drive them both, happy hunting
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  28. #27
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    Hi Warren......sorry to hear about your experiences on both the Audi and Porsche fronts there.....


    There are some very good cars to be had right now,from both,but as always it's the right place and time.
    A friend of mine has recently bought a lovely 911(993) Carrera with FSH and one genuine lady owner(!) for not much over 22k.

    Any dealer does themselves a bit of a disservice by offering up a dirty looking car,and if Porsche are above haggling...good luck to them,as they are after all,a part of VAG now.

    Good luck!

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    Good luck with whichever you choose Warren

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3Alex View Post
    and if Porsche are above haggling...good luck to them,as they are after all,a part of VAG now
    Porsche aren't part of the VAG Group...they pretty much own it, or at least have the controlling share of just over 50%
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    Porsche aren't part of the VAG Group...they pretty much own it, or at least have the controlling share of just over 50%
    Not anymore mate:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8165524.stm
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    Porsche aren't part of the VAG Group...they pretty much own it, or at least have the controlling share of just over 50%
    Volkswagen are just about to complete the outright purchase of Porsche - you're behind with the news. http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...720_048461.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iggu View Post
    Volkswagen are just about to complete the outright purchase of Porsche - you're behind with the news. http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...720_048461.htm

    BEATEN BY THE STAZ !
    Well I hate to say it guys, but you both sent me news reports from back in July, and the "imminent" merger or buy up of Porsche by VW hasn't happened, Porsche SE still owns 50.76% of the VW group, and even it does happen in the way that has been proposed, it wont happen for 2 years. A lot can happen in 2 years as we've already seen with the whole VW / Porsche saga and even more so given the current financial climate. I'm not saying it wont happen as has been prescribed by VW, but I wouldn't put my money on it thats for sure.

    Either way, is this a good thing or not, imagine cheap entry level versions of Porsche cars with 2.0TFSI engines, and rear wheel drive mid engined TT's...I can't decide if thats good or not!
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    Well I hate to say it guys, but you both sent me news reports from back in July, and the "imminent" merger or buy up of Porsche by VW hasn't happened, Porsche SE still owns 50.76% of the VW group, and even it does happen in the way that has been proposed, it wont happen for 2 years. A lot can happen in 2 years as we've already seen with the whole VW / Porsche saga and even more so given the current financial climate. I'm not saying it wont happen as has been prescribed by VW, but I wouldn't put my money on it thats for sure.

    Either way, is this a good thing or not, imagine cheap entry level versions of Porsche cars with 2.0TFSI engines, and rear wheel drive mid engined TT's...I can't decide if thats good or not!
    According to the Wiki Porsche have a 50.76% voting right not share of the company. But anyway the point was it's not all rosey in the Porsche bank book.

    I doubt that Porsche would ever in a million years start making cars with a 2.0TFSI engine! Well not in it's current guise. Perhaps in the future all engines will be smaller than the current norm with more power extracted from them.
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staz View Post
    According to the Wiki Porsche have a 50.76% voting right not share of the company. But anyway the point was it's not all rosey in the Porsche bank book.

    I doubt that Porsche would ever in a million years start making cars with a 2.0TFSI engine! Well not in it's current guise. Perhaps in the future all engines will be smaller than the current norm with more power extracted from them.
    No, thats not right, how can you have voting rights higher than your shareholding in a public company, It'll be the other way around, IIRC VW had some historic thing whereby nobody could have more than 20% of the voting rights irrespective of their shareholding, quite often found in old family run companies.

    I'm just sad to see Porsche lose a battle and get swallowed up, but then I guess they sold out years ago with 4x4's and 4 door saloons, and it serves them right for being greedy and trying to buy VW.

    I think the new baby Boxster thats been proposed is a flat 4 with a turbo, not quite TFSI but you catch my drift.

    Warren - dont let all this twoddle bewtween the rest of us sway your decisions, i'm sure whoever the hell owns who, at the end of the day most cars, bar a couple of exceptions, in the VAG Group are pretty decent.
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  37. #36
    Staz's Avatar
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    Here's the Wiki anyway mate:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group

    I like to think that when a company takes over a sports brand they leave them to their own devices to a certain extent. Like Proton buying Lotus hasn't exactly effected the heritage for example. Although it means Proton drivers as now allowed to have a Lotus badge on the back of their car apparently!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Staz View Post
    Here's the Wiki anyway mate:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group

    I like to think that when a company takes over a sports brand they leave them to their own devices to a certain extent. Like Proton buying Lotus hasn't exactly effected the heritage for example. Although it means Proton drivers as now allowed to have a Lotus badge on the back of their car apparently!
    so Wiki says.... "It was announced on 7 January that Porsche now owns 50.76% of Volkswagen". Can't get much more black and white than that.

    I've never been in one of those Protons...in fact I've never been in any Proton, but they were raved about weren't they back when they came out, or was it all just about that badge? Lotus had a habit of making crap cars cool, Lotus Carlton, remember that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanoir View Post
    so Wiki says.... "It was announced on 7 January that Porsche now owns 50.76% of Volkswagen". Can't get much more black and white than that.
    Fair enough, hadn't seen that
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    Wiki isnt the gospel truth, take everything on there with a pinch of salt...
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Wiki isnt the gospel truth, take everything on there with a pinch of salt...
    Couldn't agree more! But it turned out to be right this time.
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