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    Defratos's Avatar
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    Question Any Electricians out there? Need some help

    Ok guys I've got a few question, now what I've got is this (Below):



    And I need to change it with this:



    But I'm a bit unsure about which wires go where (see below):



    So anyone know what colour wires I need to change around? and no I haven't taken a picture of the wires behind the plug, so if anyone can help me out it'll be much appreciated
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  3. #2
    ALPINE's Avatar
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    TOP LEFT "BROWN WIRE"

    middle bottom "yellow and green wire"


    right "Blue wire"

    hope this helps!

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    Oranoco's Avatar
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    Depends when house was wired as well.

    Old colours
    Red - Live
    Black - Neutral
    Green/Yellow - Earth

    Present Colours
    Brown - Live
    Blue - Neutral
    Green/Yellow - Earth

  5. #4
    karl7900's Avatar
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    Make sure you switch the power off at the fuse box first before attempting to swap anything round. Sounds obvious, but thought I would point it out anyway.

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    Defratos's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I'll open the plug up tonight and see what colour wires are currently there. As for switching the power off would I really have to?? Can't I just wear rubber gloves and make sure I don't let any of the wires touch?
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    Just Plain Old's Avatar
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    To be honest Defratos me old mate, if you're not too sure which wires to stick in clearly marked Live Neutral and Earth terminals,,,, I'd get someone else to do it.....!!

    No really. I would. Is it worth the risk??
    In my personal opinion

  8. #7
    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Plain Old View Post
    To be honest Defratos me old mate, if you're not too sure which wires to stick in clearly marked Live Neutral and Earth terminals,,,, I'd get someone else to do it.....!!

    No really. I would. Is it worth the risk??
    I'm also not beng funny & not being rude, but if you couldnt work that out then I would get someone else to do it, yours is obviously the 2 prong european style which we use for mostly bathroom shavers, electric toothbrush etc or a kitchen maybe from the trunking on walls as trunking is not usually in bathrooms as bare electrics are a no no & might not even be earthed, it might actually have an earth connected to the conduit buried in the wall if its metal, so you would need to take a seperate wire of that earth & link it to the E connection on the new socket.

    Always use an electrical screwdriver that has a built in bulb so you know if wire is powered or not & also flick the sockets trip on the main fuse box so turned of as I am guessing from your post you are not very confident around electrics fella, DONT TAKE THE RISK IT ISNT WORTH YOUR LIFE AS SOMEONE HAS ALREADY POINTED OUT, if you need more help post pics of the wiring in socket.

    As its old socket it might not even be colour coded with old or new style, might just be plain black. also turn of power before opening socket as its old & wires can easily break & ping of hitting metal & shorting out or hit your hand, it happens when pulling socket forward to see inside.

    DONT DO WITHOUT TURNING POWER OF.
    Last edited by NHN; 8th July 2008 at 14:43.

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    I have to echo the above two posts.

    Do not attempt to do this with the power on.

    If you are unsure, get an Electrician in to do the job for you. Even a loose connection can cause a serious problem if not detected.

    Electricity is not to be messed with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelhobden View Post
    I'm also not beng funny & not being rude, but if you couldnt work that out then I would get someone else to do it, yours is obviously the 2 prong european style which we use for mostly bathroom shavers, electric toothbrush etc or a kitchen maybe from the trunking on walls as trunking is not usually in bathrooms as bare electrics are a no no & might not even be earthed, it might actually have an earth connected to the conduit buried in the wall if its metal, so you would need to take a seperate wire of that earth & link it to the E connection on the new socket.

    Always use an electrical screwdriver that has a built in bulb so you know if wire is powered or not & also flick the sockets trip on the main fuse box so turned of as I am guessing from your post you are not very confident around electrics fella, DONT TAKE THE RISK IT ISNT WORTH YOUR LIFE AS SOMEONE HAS ALREADY POINTED OUT, if you need more help post pics of the wiring in socket.

    As its old socket it might not even be colour coded with old or new style, might just be plain black. also turn of power before opening socket as its old & wires can easily break & ping of hitting metal & shorting out or hit your hand, it happens when pulling socket forward to see inside.

    DONT DO WITHOUT TURNING POWER OF.
    Id have to agree with nigel i am a qualified electrician and you really do have to respect electricity it can kill!, if your unsure or un-confident then you best leave it to someone who knows.
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    unkle's Avatar
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    Anyone want to come round and do all my Nans light switchs and plug sockets in her new kitchen? (obviously not for free)

    (except Defratos)
    Last edited by unkle; 8th July 2008 at 15:57. Reason: Covering my ass.
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    NHN
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    lol, I like the Defratos comment, lol, hope he sees funny side aswell, lol.

    I would mate but I'm down south & slightly far away, callout charge would be as much as lights, lol.

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    Lol thanks for the thought guys aww I feel loved . Don't worry I'll be turning the power off from the fuse box, and I've already got that screw driver thing with the light on top. Plus I knew what the lettering stood for but wasn't sure which wires were which lol.

    I appreciate the help, and Nigelhobden you're spot on mate, I took the plug out today to see which wires were there and this is what I found:



    Ok first question, I'm guessing the black wire is an extension from the other two wires just to use as a second socket? If not then what is it.



    And why the hell are there 3 wires wrapped around the yellow circle?? Is this just a bad job? and btw I'm not in the UK anymore, I'm in the middle East and we use 220V

    Ohh and there's an Earth wire!!
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    fingermouse's Avatar
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    that socket is not earthed,

    the 3 wire will be part of the ring main, whoever changed the socket before you probally couldn`t get them all in the new socket so but a connection block in and ran a wire to the live on the new socket.

    looks like they have done the same with the blue 2 into 1.

    if you can get all 3 brown in the live of the new socket and both blue in the neutral of the new socket

    if needed cut the earth wire and put both ends in the new earth terminal, leave the earths slightly long so if the socket is pulled off the wall they will be the last to be disconnected.

    hope this helps
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    fingermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Anyone want to come round and do all my Nans light switchs and plug sockets in her new kitchen? (obviously not for free)

    (except Defratos)

    ive not got the right stuff for domestic any more as im stuck in a factory and they havn`t kept me up to date
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    Are the joints of the cables twisted together? if so that bad news. I have seen it a million times (qualified electrician) the wires can burn and go on fire. Get a proper connector block on that!
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    fingermouse's Avatar
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    if your lucky they may be soldered together but that could cause you more probs if your unsure what to do
    Last edited by fingermouse; 8th July 2008 at 18:14. Reason: hmm georgey paws
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  18. #17
    Defratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse View Post
    that socket is not earthed,

    the 3 wire will be part of the ring main, whoever changed the socket before you probally couldn`t get them all in the new socket so but a connection block in and ran a wire to the live on the new socket.

    looks like they have done the same with the blue 2 into 1.

    if you can get all 3 brown in the live of the new socket and both blue in the neutral of the new socket

    if needed cut the earth wire and put both ends in the new earth terminal, leave the earths slightly long so if the socket is pulled off the wall they will be the last to be disconnected.

    hope this helps
    Ok a question about one of things you said, would I put all 3 brown/red wires into only one of the Live terminals of the new socket? or should I put the brown in one and the other 2 red ones in the other?
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  19. #18
    Defratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosscotdi View Post
    Are the joints of the cables twisted together? if so that bad news. I have seen it a million times (qualified electrician) the wires can burn and go on fire. Get a proper connector block on that!
    I'm guessing they are twisted together, what does a connector block look like? A pic would be nice
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  20. #19
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    http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/photos/rapid/conblock.jpg

    Depending on the size of fuse/ mcb the appropiate ampage of connector should be used eg 15A fuse =15A connector
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  21. #20
    NHN
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    Easiest & safest for you is to remove the red tape, replace the current wire joints with block connectors that are rated at the ring main breakers ampage usually 30amps so they dont melt & burn potentially causing a fire, then use new wires & do as they have to extend the live/neutral wires from the block connector to the new socket, then cut the earth wire in half & connect these 2 ends directly into the new socket as they are long enough so no safety risk, this is the safest & simplest solution for you all with the circuit of!!!

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  22. #21
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    ^ So I would run the 3 brown/red cables through just one of those connectors?
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  23. #22
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    DUDE FROM WHAT I HAVE READ ABOVE I WOULD GET SOME 1 ELSE TO DO IT FOR YOU. (oops caps) there is no point echo`in what every 1 else has said but i know 1st hand about being zapped by 240 volts. would you like to see the scars?? lol

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  24. #23
    NHN
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    The only reason on the old socket they have linked in/out from bottom 2 holes to the top 2 holes is the sockets on the front are independently wired so they have linked the wiring to make both sockets work, but your new socket has only one socket with a fully integrated circuit for all the different plug types so no need to link any wires.

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  25. #24
    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defratos View Post
    ^ So I would run the 3 brown/red cables through just one of those connectors?
    Ok block connector has 2 sides to screw into ok, on one side you screw in the 2 red & 1 brown cable, then on other side you screw in the feed to the new socket, same for the neutral blue wires, one side the 3 wires other side the feed to socket, its simple fella, seriously if you cant work this out then dont touch the damn thing cause basic wiring skills would be needed for this & I mean basic & not meaning to imply anything just trying to get you to realise the safety factor in this, been sparked number times myself & it aint nice, trust us, one of my worse was sticking my arm on top of a phone system with 16 lines connected & all of them ringing incoming calls at same time which inturn changes the current/load etc, just a tad of a shock, lol, phewwwweeeeee

    block connectors are molded from factory into long strips but the contacts are only connected across from eachother not all down the strip so you have 2 fixing points to screw into to make the join & you can cut the strip for say if you only use one block connector, in your case you would use 2 connectors so fairly small, but make sure when you go to buy the block connector it is rated at say 30amp for safety so it doesnt burn inside the socket thus fire, this is very very important as you are basically tapping into the main electrical socket ring wiring of the house, so everything plugged in is running along those wires unless you have ring for upstairs/downstairs, so you can imagine the current being used through the circuit.

    Anyway what you need to do is a doddle if you follow what I said above.
    Last edited by NHN; 8th July 2008 at 19:42.

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  26. #25
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  27. #26
    NHN
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    I knew it would happen & I had a slight feeling it would be you, lol, lol

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    remember if you put one wire in a conector you need to double it back on itself. so put 2 in one of the L holes and 1 in the other doubled back on itself ( approx 5mm)

    sorry didn`t look back at the original pic so didn`t see the 2 holes.
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  29. #28
    Defratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigelhobden View Post
    Ok block connector has 2 sides to screw into ok, on one side you screw in the 2 red & 1 brown cable, then on other side you screw in the feed to the new socket, same for the neutral blue wires, one side the 3 wires other side the feed to socket, its simple fella, seriously if you cant work this out then dont touch the damn thing cause basic wiring skills would be needed for this & I mean basic & not meaning to imply anything just trying to get you to realise the safety factor in this, been sparked number times myself & it aint nice, trust us, one of my worse was sticking my arm on top of a phone system with 16 lines connected & all of them ringing incoming calls at same time which inturn changes the current/load etc, just a tad of a shock, lol, phewwwweeeeee

    block connectors are molded from factory into long strips but the contacts are only connected across from eachother not all down the strip so you have 2 fixing points to screw into to make the join & you can cut the strip for say if you only use one block connector, in your case you would use 2 connectors so fairly small, but make sure when you go to buy the block connector it is rated at say 30amp for safety so it doesnt burn inside the socket thus fire, this is very very important as you are basically tapping into the main electrical socket ring wiring of the house, so everything plugged in is running along those wires unless you have ring for upstairs/downstairs, so you can imagine the current being used through the circuit.

    Anyway what you need to do is a doddle if you follow what I said above.
    Ok thanks for that step by step info mate, Ok please tell me if what I have below is correct? I do have basic wiring skills (just haven't used them for some time):



    It sounds pretty straight forward but one question, when I run the feeds to the new socket would I not have to run two feeds i order to connect them to "both" holes of the new socket? same as with the Earth wire?


    Quote Originally Posted by fingermouse View Post
    remember if you put one wire in a conector you need to double it back on itself. so put 2 in one of the L holes and 1 in the other doubled back on itself ( approx 5mm)

    sorry didn`t look back at the original pic so didn`t see the 2 holes.
    Ok now you've just confused me, by doubling it back on itself do you mean bending the end of the wire back on itself and then putting it into the connector? If so in my case would I need to do this if I use the block connectors since I'd be fitting 3 wires into one connector and 2 into the other?? so would I really need to double them back? and do you double back a single wire so that it's held in more securely in the socket?
    Last edited by Defratos; 9th July 2008 at 08:58.
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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Anyone want to come round and do all my Nans light switchs and plug sockets in her new kitchen? (obviously not for free)

    (except Defratos)
    Haha, just noticed that, sure thing buddy I need all the practice I can get but I'll be back in the UK on the 16th so if you're willing to wait hehe
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  31. #30
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    Does anyone remember that thread a while back on a BMW owners' forum, where that 17 year old kid was talking about getting a new M5 (which later turned out to be his dad's) and everyone on the forum was telling him he was too young and to be careful etc...?

    This thread reminds me a little of that! Be careful Defratos!
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    lol dude c'mon you can't compare me to a freakin 17 year old!! Trust me if I wasn't confident enough to do this I wouldn't attempt it, but I've always (in my younger age) done all sorts of electrical stuff (nothing major) but enough to know what to touch and what not to. I like expanding my knowledge especially in areas such as this where I'd be able to use it in future life, and plus I see it as if I'd be calling an electrician to change a light bulb I mean it is basic wiring I just want to do it right and I know there are some very knowledgeable people on here (thank god)
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  33. #32
    R8GGA

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    Ha I know I was just kidding! I tried to fix a tv once; unplugged it first but I still got a massive shock off it somehow once I'd opened it up. Told my electrician and he pissed himself laughing. Something about a capacitor or something.
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  34. #33
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    magnus that would be redisual charge lol used to charge the capacitors up on a motor manufacturers production line so when the parts were fitted the women got a shock lol


    ok back to defratos.......... You only need the wires in one of the holes in your nes socket. I think there are two to allow for more wires. If you can get all 3 in one of the holes then do that. If its a tight fit then fit 2 wires to one of the live holes and the single live wire will require the end of it bending back on itself in effect doubling its thickness for approx 5mm this reduces the risk of the wire snapping off from the connection.

    also ensure there is no more than 1mm of bare conductor showing after all connections are made.

    If the wire is stranded wire you do not need to double the wire back on itself.


    its amazing how hard it is to describe a task I take for granted lol whatever you do it will be better than what the last person did. Have a go then show us your handy work.
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  35. #34
    Defratos's Avatar
    You’re Dethpicable!!

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    Ok I've understood everything now, Just one question aren't the wires that are currently connected "Standard Wires"??

    Oh and I'll post some pics up of my handy work fo approval once I'm done lol
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  36. #35
    NHN
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    The block connector is correct, no you only need to connect to one terminal/hole on the socket, its only there for the 2 ring main wires, used to be 1 big hole & still is mostly, yes when connecting a single wire always bend it round on itself so it basically creates double thickness in the terminal or same as 2 wires in the terminal so it doesnt snap of easily as per "Fingermouse" says, dont even bother to try & fit the 3 wires into the socket directly as per "Fingermouse" says, no disrespect at all, but look at the length of the wires, they arent long enough to get into the socket safely & given Defratos experience in electricals(or lack of, lol, jokingly said) I wouldnt ask him to risk wiring this way like maybe us mortals would, anyway I wouldnt even bother trying given wire length, its to risky for breaking of at some stage, safety factor do as per already suggested.

    As its a ring main usually you wouldnt spur of for socket, you would wire both wires in the ring directly into the socket, but dont worry wont harm anything at all, anyway someone has already spurred of that socket as per the brown wire which I think I can see a socket to the left no??

    Yeah the capacitors do give you quite a whack, I touched one on a poxy canon ixus camera once, feck me did it kick me in the arse, for a small capac it certainly woke me up that day huh lol, lol
    Last edited by NHN; 9th July 2008 at 12:14.

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  37. #36
    Z82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defratos View Post
    Trust me if I wasn't confident enough to do this I wouldn't attempt it, but I've always (in my younger age) done all sorts of electrical stuff (nothing major) but enough to know what to touch and what not to.
    Qualified electrician of 20 years here and believe me that some one with a little electrical knowledge is FAR more dangerous than some one with none at all!

    Get a sparky to do it, its an easy job that will only take him 10 mins and you can sleep at night (more to the point, I'll be able to sleep).
    I have seen sooooooooo many simple DIY jobs end in electrocution and/or fires!

    Is it worth the risk for the sake of Ł30/Ł40 ??

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  38. #37
    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z82 View Post
    Qualified electrician of 20 years here and believe me that some one with a little electrical knowledge is FAR more dangerous than some one with none at all!

    Get a sparky to do it, its an easy job that will only take him 10 mins and you can sleep at night (more to the point, I'll be able to sleep).
    I have seen sooooooooo many simple DIY jobs end in electrocution and/or fires!

    Is it worth the risk for the sake of Ł30/Ł40 ??
    I'd agree & have already advised but seems he's got it sussed, as long as the board is of & he does exactly as per the notes should easily do it, its not exactly hard given his replies I would be inclined to believe he can do it properly.

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  39. #38
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    Thanks for the help guys, especially nigel & Fingermouse I'll keep you guys updated on progress, I will probably get around to doing this tomorrow so keep an eye out for update pics (Hopefully)


    Quote Originally Posted by Z82 View Post
    Qualified electrician of 20 years here and believe me that some one with a little electrical knowledge is FAR more dangerous than some one with none at all!
    Get a sparky to do it, its an easy job that will only take him 10 mins and you can sleep at night (more to the point, I'll be able to sleep).
    I have seen sooooooooo many simple DIY jobs end in electrocution and/or fires!

    Is it worth the risk for the sake of Ł30/Ł40 ??
    lol thanks for the concern mate, how about I promise you guys I'll try & not do anything stupid (Hope you don't have any nightmares about me). Plus I enjoy doing this kind of stuff.

    P.S. Look on the bright side if I do get shocked (which I won't since I'm turning the power off) then it won't be any worse than the 9V battery electrocuting my whole face, man that was one shock I'll never forget my whole jaw just clamped down and tensed up for a good 2-3 secs good thing I didn't have my tongue in the way lol, and everything went white, lol so keeping that memorable experience in mind I'll will be careful and I'll post back just to re-assure you guys that I'm not electrocuted on my Kitchen floor HAHA
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  40. #39
    fingermouse's Avatar
    thats me

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    you will be fine ........ (famous last words lol ) Im a electrical/mechanical engineer by trade but the only job I shy away from is plastering. (thats just because its a thing that gets better the more you do it and my wife won`t put up with my first attempt so I dont bother.)
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  41. #40
    NHN
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    lol, yeah plastering is a masterful trade, its all about the mix & the thickness of layers, having beer glass bottom glasses doesnt help either for a flat surface, lol, lol.

    I have a feeling we wont be hearing from Defratos after tomorrow, lol, lol, (kidding)

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