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  1. #41
    Onlyme's Avatar
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    Just thinking about it, when they have those scallies being chased on those tv programmes why do they blot out the number plate then if that site posted above state that they can give most of your details out.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac
    Come on now, the one at the far end is excellent also.
    Too right, a couple of those beers I doubt anyone would be fussy enough to say no to the one in the middle either...
    Last edited by unkle; 14th January 2008 at 00:25. Reason: Typo
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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onlyme
    Just thinking about it, when they have those scallies being chased on those tv programmes why do they blot out the number plate then if that site posted above state that they can give most of your details out.
    I think that's because the cars in question are part of the criminal investigation so are therefore subject to anonymity until the case is proved.

  5. #44
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    @Onlyme

    Like I said, I didn't just take BetterDrivingPlease' word for it. I actually did my own research first, all the information is out there if you Google hard enough. I then found a little bit of text on their website (tucked away in the FAQ) which, unfortunately, proves that they already know what they can and can't do to stay within the realms of the law. (http://www.betterdrivingplease.com/faq.asp#q6)

    Unfortunately you could get the best solicitor or barrister you wish but it would make little difference (Okay, perhaps you could get OJs lawyers... they can prove anything! ). The BetterDrivingPlease website contains no information that is not already publically available from simply walking down your, or any, street. This is also why they do not need a Privacy Policy or a Data Controller; no personal information or data that could indentify you as an idividual (as controlled by the Data Protection Act) is obtained, stored and/or published.

    As an example this is how the DVLA can operate a publically searchable database containing your vehicle details; no information is presented that identifies the registered owner/keeper (you) and no information is presented that is not already publically available (so not protected by the Data Protection Act). The DVLA actually presents more information about your car than the BetterDrivingPlease website... Would you take the DVLA to court too? The DVLA website however does contain a Privacy Policy as, in addition to the publically available information, they also obtain and store personal information (such as driving licence number, name, address, D/O/B, disclosed medical history etc). If you've never seen the DVLA vehicle enquiry database before look here: http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/

    Just to confirm, as I found out myself, the law states (not BetterDrivingPlease):

    Anything in public view, in a public place, can be recorded and published for non commercial gain; car registrations, descriptions and photographs of vehicles... street lamps, buildings, road signs, litter... and people. Exceptions to this are places which are covered the by Official Secrets Act which also may, or may not, be publically accessible, Birds/Animals/Flowers covered by the Wildlife and Countryside Act (even when publically accessible), and the Privacy Act in places where you can expect a reasonable amount of privacy (such as the goings on in your own home, even if viewable from a public place, through a window).

    The Data Protection Act does afford some protection with regard to publishing/disclosing names, photographs (where an individual is recognisable) and other such "non publically available" personal data (such as your salary, home address, credit card numbers) while stronger protection is given to sensitive information (such as ethnic origins, political opinions, religious beliefs, trade union membership, health, sexual life and any criminal history).

    With specific regards to photographs/video recordings where you are unaware that you are the specific target of the recording (while driving a vehicle for instance) your identity (i.e face only) has to be masked if published. This is why you will find signs in publically accessible, but essentially private places (such as shopping malls, shops, nightclubs etc) telling you that you are being recording for security and safety purposes... by entering that place you are giving them permission to use your image (for example in the pursuit of criminal proceedings).

    Under the Data Protection act there are however two exceptions to the use of photographs taken that you are unaware of:
    • Photographs taken for journalistic purposes. Its legal for your photograph to be taken in conjunction with a TV or newspapers report, However these images may still be subject to other laws or injunctions (for example to stop newspapers from publishing pictures of individuals involved in ongoing criminal investigations and/or court cases)
    • Photographs taken for artistic purposes. Its legal for a photographer to take a picture of say, a seaside beach front, where individuals are recognisable without the individuals persmission or indeed even being aware. More often than not though you will find that, to be on the safe side, most photographers will, if asked nicely, either not take a picture with you in it, or will agree to reshoot the picture, completely digitally remove you from it or at the very least will digitally replace your face with someone elses!


    As marms pointed out earlier I do my research before commenting on such matters... which is how I also know that the guy who started BetterDrivingPlease is not some tree-hugging "Save the planet" hippy but a middle-aged tweed (with leather elbow patches) jacket wearing busy body! Research: Its what seperates the guessers from the smart arses!
    Last edited by Shades; 14th January 2008 at 13:55.

  6. #45
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    If you wanted to clone a vehicle there are far easier ways. The VIN number for your car is on public display, you can do an MOT/insurance check online as well now. What worries me is the people bothering to take down number plates while presumably driving, surely a dangerous act in itself (compared to the feebleness of some of those reports).

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac
    If you wanted to clone a vehicle there are far easier ways. The VIN number for your car is on public display, you can do an MOT/insurance check online as well now. What worries me is the people bothering to take down number plates while presumably driving, surely a dangerous act in itself (compared to the feebleness of some of those reports).
    Steady on Andy!! We're almost, in a round-about way, agreeing on something there... that can't be right!
    Last edited by Shades; 14th January 2008 at 13:37.

  8. #47
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    Wow this got really alot more of a hradcore debate than i ever imagined!!

    Or should i say that Shades has just got alot of time on his hads in the day whikst he is not making topless ladies shake their bits with his bangin choons!! (Good work on the pics thats the sort of research you should be using the internet for)
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  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shades
    As is usual with me please be warned this is a long post but I would like to kindly ask you (all) to take a moment to read it.


    Now, I absolutely don't want to get into any argument about this and its absolutely, 100% nothing personal (towards jdp1962) but I would like to take the above quote as an example of why, if posted on the BetterDrivingPlease website, it would be ultimately pointless (like most of the posts on that site)...

    Naturally it may be annoying and an inconvenience if the person in front of you is driving below the speed limit but that is something to which they are perfectly entitled, and can quite legally do (unless there is a posted minimum speed limit which, as it is not mentioned, I can only assume there wasn't). The Highway Code (section 146) itself states that the maximum speed limit is not a target and it is often not safe or appropriate to drive at that limit.

    Who's to say that this woman did not know the (rural) road and was not comfortable driving at the speed limit where she would present an even greater danger? The Highway code also recommends other drivers make provisions for this by being patient and considerate (section 147)

    There is also no information included about road width, weather conditions (Dry? Raining?) and light conditions (Day? Night? Dull? Dusk/Dawn?) which may, or may not, offer an explanation for the constant braking when encountering oncoming traffic. For example; if it was at night or during low light conditions (where cars are required to use their headlights) section 115 of the Highway code recommends you to slow down, and if necessary stop, if you are dazzled by oncoming headlights.

    While it is only the womans driving that is being criticised its also interesting to note that if the driver of the vehicle in front is posing a problem by slowing down when encountering traffic this itself would indicate that that the following vehicle is itself too close. The highway code (section 126) advises to leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front so that you can pull up safely if it suddenly slows down or stops.

    Its also worth noting that on a road where "overtaking opportunities are few and far between" jdp1962 goes on to say "when my patience finally snapped and I tried a marginal overtaking manouevre...". This itself could be considered a dangerous act and also driving without reasonable consideration for other road users (H/C section 144).

    While I am in no way attempting to defend the woman speeding up as she was attempted to be overtaken (if her intention was to prevent the manouevre) but could it not also be concievable that she, just at the same time as it was viewed it to be a 'marginally' safe place to overtake, also viewed it as a safe place to increase her speed?



    Like I said, I am by no means attempting to criticise jdp1962's driving. I am merely trying to emphasis why the BetterDrivingPlease website is ultimately, and terminally, flawed due to the hundreds (and hundreds) of 'reports' that are represented in the same manner as jdp1962 posted above. It would just strike me as the whinging of someone who percieved that another driver did not drive to their particular standards, and in fact has nothing to do with the law or the other driver being a particularly bad.

    My point is nobody drives like a saint (or largely how they were taught) and nobody follows the highway code to the absolute letter. The thing that annoys me the most is the fact that, as drivers, the contributors to that site are no different to you and I, and probably make exactly the same 'mistakes' on a daily basis too. Who at some point in time hasn't been guilty of driving too close, failing to signal, speeding (even slightly), forgetting to switch off foglights, etc, etc? Nobody is perfect not even, as they would like you to believe, the many pious contributors to BetterDrivingPlease.

    I do not begrudge those that post incidents of illegal, dangerous driving (especially those with proof), however most posts to BetterDrivingPlease are nothing more than petty venting of annoyances while others, without actually realising it, incriminate themselves to be equally guilty of bad driving (if the Highway Code is followed to the letter). Then there are the posts about people with ambiguous registration plates, naughty modifications etc which in no shape or form are an indication upon the driving abilities of the owners and absolutely should not be included in a website designed to highlight bad drivers.

    It also worries me that the contributions cannot be verified (unless accompanied by photographic evidence) and are open to abuse by bias, omissions, grudges or can even be completely made up!


    I know this has been a long post but thank you to all that have taken the time to read it. Your opinions will be looked forward to!
    When I read, my first thought was that Shades had misunderstood my post, but when I went back and reread it, I realised I'd not made a very good job of the point I was raising.

    I'd intended to endorse Shades' grave concerns about this stupid better driving site by illustrating how easy it is for someone who believes they are driving safely to be regarded as driving poorly by some else whose agenda and perceptions are different. What I certainly didn't intend to convey (but I now realise I did) is any notion that I actually wanted to post any thing about the driver on that site. To quote Clarkson, I would sooner eat my own hair (if I had any).

    I'm actually in complete agreement with Shades (albeit less well-researched in my reasoning - I just don't have the time or inclination) about the absurdity of betterdriving.com, or whatever it's called. What it amounts to is making public accusations based on un-corroborated evidence without any right of reply.

    And don't worry about me taking offence at any implied criticism of my driving. I fully understood the hypothetical nature of all the possibilities you were outlining.

    (And apart from which, I am a Driving God who can do no wrong )
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  10. #49
    Onlyme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shades
    @Onlyme

    Like I said, I didn't just take BetterDrivingPlease' word for it. I actually did my own research first, all the information is out there if you Google hard enough. I then found a little bit of text on their website (tucked away in the FAQ) which, unfortunately, proves that they already know what they can and can't do to stay within the realms of the law. (http://www.betterdrivingplease.com/faq.asp#q6)

    Unfortunately you could get the best solicitor or barrister you wish but it would make little difference (Okay, perhaps you could get OJs lawyers... they can prove anything! ). The BetterDrivingPlease website contains no information that is not already publically available from simply walking down your, or any, street. This is also why they do not need a Privacy Policy or a Data Controller; no personal information or data that could indentify you as an idividual (as controlled by the Data Protection Act) is obtained, stored and/or published.

    As an example this is how the DVLA can operate a publically searchable database containing your vehicle details; no information is presented that identifies the registered owner/keeper (you) and no information is presented that is not already publically available (so not protected by the Data Protection Act). The DVLA actually presents more information about your car than the BetterDrivingPlease website... Would you take the DVLA to court too? The DVLA website however does contain a Privacy Policy as, in addition to the publically available information, they also obtain and store personal information (such as driving licence number, name, address, D/O/B, disclosed medical history etc). If you've never seen the DVLA vehicle enquiry database before look here: http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/

    Just to confirm, as I found out myself, the law states (not BetterDrivingPlease):

    Anything in public view, in a public place, can be recorded and published for non commercial gain; car registrations, descriptions and photographs of vehicles... street lamps, buildings, road signs, litter... and people. Exceptions to this are places which are covered the by Official Secrets Act which also may, or may not, be publically accessible, Birds/Animals/Flowers covered by the Wildlife and Countryside Act (even when publically accessible), and the Privacy Act in places where you can expect a reasonable amount of privacy (such as the goings on in your own home, even if viewable from a public place, through a window).

    The Data Protection Act does afford some protection with regard to publishing/disclosing names, photographs (where an individual is recognisable) and other such "non publically available" personal data (such as your salary, home address, credit card numbers) while stronger protection is given to sensitive information (such as ethnic origins, political opinions, religious beliefs, trade union membership, health, sexual life and any criminal history).

    With specific regards to photographs/video recordings where you are unaware that you are the specific target of the recording (while driving a vehicle for instance) your identity (i.e face only) has to be masked if published. This is why you will find signs in publically accessible, but essentially private places (such as shopping malls, shops, nightclubs etc) telling you that you are being recording for security and safety purposes... by entering that place you are giving them permission to use your image (for example in the pursuit of criminal proceedings).

    Under the Data Protection act there are however two exceptions to the use of photographs taken that you are unaware of:
    • Photographs taken for journalistic purposes. Its legal for your photograph to be taken in conjunction with a TV or newspapers report, However these images may still be subject to other laws or injunctions (for example to stop newspapers from publishing pictures of individuals involved in ongoing criminal investigations and/or court cases)
    • Photographs taken for artistic purposes. Its legal for a photographer to take a picture of say, a seaside beach front, where individuals are recognisable without the individuals persmission or indeed even being aware. More often than not though you will find that, to be on the safe side, most photographers will, if asked nicely, either not take a picture with you in it, or will agree to reshoot the picture, completely digitally remove you from it or at the very least will digitally replace your face with someone elses!

    As marms pointed out earlier I do my research before commenting on such matters... which is how I also know that the guy who started BetterDrivingPlease is not some tree-hugging "Save the planet" hippy but a middle-aged tweed (with leather elbow patches) jacket wearing busy body! Research: Its what seperates the guessers from the smart arses!

    Im sorry but i didnt even read any of that because to me its a lot of hot air no matter how many thanks or how much reasearch you do if my details go on there then I will complain and if the need arises will take it up with the european court of ruling, they are all sad twats in my eyes that need to get a life, if they want to make a difference then become mp's if not they need to get a ****ing life.
    Like I said i did not read your hot waffle but can you tell me when there busy taking notes about cars not indicating are they concertrating on the road ahead or concentrating on posting on a sad twats website.

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac
    If you wanted to clone a vehicle there are far easier ways. The VIN number for your car is on public display, you can do an MOT/insurance check online as well now. What worries me is the people bothering to take down number plates while presumably driving, surely a dangerous act in itself (compared to the feebleness of some of those reports).
    My vin aint on display because I have the brains to cover it up

  12. #51
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    Can we watch the swearing in these posts please gents.
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