Land and border dispute.

jojo

jojo

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Need some advice fellow ASN'ers, it's not life threatening, but annoying as hell.

Anyways, a bit of history here. At my place of work, it's a block of shops. Now many years ago, a guesstimate of 50 years, one man/family owned the whole block, and whilst the whole block was being built, he created a service road that goes in one side, all the way round the back of the shops and back out the other. This is very normal, even for today. Here's a pic below anyways, so you get the idea, the green line is the access.

serviceroad_zps66d0ec35.png


But the scenario is much different today, as the original owner, overtime, has sold of individual parts of the block, and my family owns our shop outright since the mid 70's(higlighted in light green), but in the last few years, he sold the 2 end units(highlighted in yellow) to some rich guy. Now for some reason, on purchasing the orange patch, the rich guy inherited the whole plot highlighted in Blue. I have no issue with that at all, it has no effect on me what he has purchased, nor what he has gained. Buuut, my Rich guy has decided to stick 2 metal gate(highlighted in orange), therefore claiming the area highlighted in red as his own. The green line is now the point of access and exit for the remaining part of the block, of which MR Richguy still uses as access.

borders_zpse8f81d50.png


Now Mr Richguy is a nasty piece of work, I actually knew of him before he purchased the end units, and prior to doing the gate thing, he was up and down the block of shops making friends, buying things etc., sweetening us up, but once the gates was up, he became Mr A.hole. To top it off, non of the other shop owners are happy about the current setup, but won't say anything. It's actually effecting me the most, as I'm right next to him, but I'm in no position to fight it out with him legally. Everyone else doesn't want to know....
 
Jojo

This sounds like one of those situations that needs expert advice from someone in the know, rather than hopeful guesses from well-meaning but ultimately uninformed people like me. Are there any firms of solicitors near you that offer free initial consultations? If there are, maybe worth making an appointment.

Best of luck, buddy, but I really don't know anything that I could safely offer you as direct advice.
 
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jdp1962 said:
Jojo

This sounds like one of those situations that needs expert advice from someone in the know, rather than hopeful guesses from well-meaning but ultimately uninformed people like me. Are there any firms of solicitors near you that offer free initial consultations? If there are, maybe worth making an appointment.

Best of luck, buddy, but I really don't know anything that I could safely offer you as direct advice.
Click to expand...

It's one of those isn't it Jeff. I thought about sticking a fence on 'my' land, right next to his fence, to stop him having access, but that's just playing cat and mouse with him.
 
If you have got legal assistance as part of your business insurance that could be the way to go,the solicitors can go through the deeds and look to see if there are any covenants in place which might have been broken by Mr A hole.Good luck .
 
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DAYTONA500 said:
If you have got legal assistance as part of your business insurance that could be the way to go,the solicitors can go through the deeds and look to see if there are any covenants in place which might have been broken by Mr A hole.Good luck .
Click to expand...
Good shout. Another thought; maybe speak to your local Planning Department?
 
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DAYTONA500 said:
If you have got legal assistance as part of your business insurance that could be the way to go,the solicitors can go through the deeds and look to see if there are any covenants in place which might have been broken by Mr A hole.Good luck .
Click to expand...

Cheers, I will look into that!

Ghost said:
Two things you may want to consider…
Are the gates locked?

What about fire service access?

What about “rights of why”

Rights of way in England and Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

YES, they are locked both sides!
 
I'd speak to a solicitor jojo ! The only other thing to consider mate .........Is mr A hole so much of one that he's not worth talking too and asking him if it can be left open and you would lock up at night when you shut down shop or similar????

Hope you get it sorted mate, the most stress I have in my life is to do with properties in one way or another!

Sean
 
Ghost said:

What about fire service access?
Click to expand...

Test it out for him. set light to his property and see if the fire brigade can get around the back.
You know, just as a test kinda thing.
 
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s33nyboy12 said:
I'd speak to a solicitor jojo ! The only other thing to consider mate .........Is mr A hole so much of one that he's not worth talking too and asking him if it can be left open and you would lock up at night when you shut down shop or similar????

Hope you get it sorted mate, the most stress I have in my life is to do with properties in one way or another!

Sean
Click to expand...

We are on talking terms, he's adamant he owns the land, so there's nothing to discuss. One of his workers, a sound bloke, opens the gate every monday morning in the early hours to let the dump truck tack my refuse away, but not seen him in a while. The dumptruck men still drag my bins out to take it away, so respect to them.
 
We have similar shared access complications/land owners rights etc at work with literally 1000's of locations across the uk, and it's usually sorted out fairly amicably if a good spiel about why you need access is put to them.

Wouldn't have thought it was a concern regarding fire service etc as they would break in if need be.

I'd check, and double check (they do make mistakes) with the local authorities/land registry to check whether he does infact own that part of the road.

IF he does I'd very politely ask if there was a possibility of having shared access to it as an act of neighbourly goodwill, and for your convenience, maybe suggest that if he wanted 2 separate locks for the same gate so you had 1 each that you'd be happy to provide it at your expense, again, just as a gesture of goodwill.

But don't take his word as gospel that he owns anything! Find out for definite before involving solicitors etc.

If he doesn't turn out to be the land owner then smash his lock off and spend all week driving up and down it!
 
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tom2 said:
We have similar shared access complications/land owners rights etc at work with literally 1000's of locations across the uk, and it's usually sorted out fairly amicably if a good spiel about why you need access is put to them.

Wouldn't have thought it was a concern regarding fire service etc as they would break in if need be.

I'd check, and double check (they do make mistakes) with the local authorities/land registry to check whether he does infact own that part of the road.

IF he does I'd very politely ask if there was a possibility of having shared access to it as an act of neighbourly goodwill, and for your convenience, maybe suggest that if he wanted 2 separate locks for the same gate so you had 1 each that you'd be happy to provide it at your expense, again, just as a gesture of goodwill.

But don't take his word as gospel that he owns anything! Find out for definite before involving solicitors etc.

If he doesn't turn out to be the land owner then smash his lock off and spend all week driving up and down it!
Click to expand...

No point talking to him mate, he's a tax dodger type person, does what he needs to do to get the job done, the fobs you off. Like I already mentioned before, we are on talking terms, but any mention of the gates, he just says it belongs to him, it's written in the deeds...
He doesn't dress smart, and drives a battered transporter, but recently he's been turning up in his '14' plate Porsche Panamera to the units.
My actual thinking is, if he claims that part is his, then surely the bit I need to drive over to get to my patch belongs to me. So
I can just stick a car there and block him off, if he touches my car, then it's vandalism or whatever you call it?
The problem with the other shop keepers is, they are all renting, but my family physically owns our plot, so they have nothing to gain by intervening.
 
Have you personally checked it belongs to him or just taken his word?

I wouldn't park across his gates because you'll just be fighting fire with fire, you'll only aggravate him and fall out completely.
 
You can pay to see who owns what land near you,we had an issue and the Land registry sent us maps with the info attached,it was of a house a hundred doors away the knuckle draggers but eventually we got the correct one,does not cost much.
He could be land grabbing but also he could be wanting security around his property.
 
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Land registry and local authority would have the info I'm sure.
It will also help the solicitors to see if there is a case or not. Unfortunately solicitors can be expensive, but sounds like in this case it needs to be done, if it comes to it.
Personally I wouldn't be nice to this guy. He obviously doesn't care about any of the shops and is being aggressive by closing off the roads with his gates.
Good luck!
 
I think the guy is trying it on and hoping no one challenges him.The only way you are going to find out for sure is to check the deeds and covenants,as i said before check your insurance to see if you have legal cover .
http://www.land-registry-documents.co.uk/information/land-boundary-disputes/
Adverse Possession One way in which boundaries can shift over the course of time is via adverse possession. Adverse possession is where a person treats another’s land as if it was his own and assumes possession of it. This happens often with neighbours where a boundary fence will be erected on the neighbour’s land so that physically, a strip of the neighbour’s garden is incorporated into his own. The doctrine of adverse possession means that, subject to other considerations, the neighbour who has put the fence in the wrong place (the “adverse possessor”) becomes the owner of the land provided a period of 12 years elapses without an objection being raised, even if an objection is subsequently (after 12 years) raise. - See more at: http://www.land-registry-documents.co.uk/information/land-boundary-disputes/#sthash.WXFjcMLo.dpuf
 
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I've just found this on a digital 2 page copy of my deeds, which unfortunately, doesn't include a photo! I can only guess that the 'blue marked' section is the rear part/access road, then it would make sense, and he's therefore not allowed to seal it off.

118c822ce8858ea03d2d6dfca629c13b_zpsd68fe1db.jpg
 
have you got your deeds ?

should be outlined on them as mine is
 
jojo said:
I've just found this on a digital 2 page copy of my deeds, which unfortunately, doesn't include a photo! I can only guess that the 'blue marked' section is the rear part/access road, then it would make sense, and he's therefore not allowed to seal it off.

118c822ce8858ea03d2d6dfca629c13b_zpsd68fe1db.jpg
Click to expand...

This is a step in the right direction you now need to see your original deeds and gather all the info, if there was any change to the original deeds or covenants all of the parties concerned would legally have to of been notified.Ive just looked at my deeds and plans ,there are a 2 houses[not mine] next door to each other on a block end on our small development of 11 houses, on the plans they are represented by a hatched area of road under the heading "shared access".
 
Ive just looked on google maps is there an estate agents there?
 
I would be getting the estate agents involved and on your side, they would have all the resources available so perhaps make contact with their head office's legal dept and make them aware of the situation.
 
DAYTONA500 said:
I would be getting the estate agents involved and on your side, they would have all the resources available so perhaps make contact with their head office's legal dept and make them aware of the situation.
Click to expand...

They've not been there long, so wouldn't know of the situation. Plus they don't use the service road, so no benefit for them to get involved. Shops to the left of me I'm on first name terms with them, shops to the right are strange. I don't know them, they never come in my shop, no one seems to know much about them, they keep themselves to themselves.
 
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