advice on driveway/ land purchase

I would imagine that land is land no matter who owns it, of course it may be easy to purchase the land from council?

I would definitely check with council first though before building anything. If for example they allow you to pave without purchasing, make sure you have everything in writing.

I would deffo seek legal advice, problems will arise if you sell your house with extra `parking` if its not legally binding. Extra parking can add to the value of your property but only if its legal and in your deeds.

Yeah i would definately get it in writing as imagine if someone else starts parking on it. You will not be able to remove them as it will not legally be yours.

Personally...

I'd pave it and be done.

If you come to sell the house don't mention that it's part of the deal, as it's not yours.

If you go down the line of trying to purchase it, firstly you risk being told no, secondly the solicitors fee's will probably be more that what the Local Authority want for the land.

If worse comes to worse and the LA get upset about you doing it without permission, then just change it back to what it was.

The only was the LA are likely to know about what you've done is if someone complains and they *have* to look into it. I don't think your average highway engineers driving past will give 2 hoots if you own it or not. But as I say, if one of your neighbours complains then highways will have to look into the complaint and take action against you - probably a notice to say put it back as was or else...

That's my view on it anyway.

Kev.

How long have you been using it and upkeeping it for? there's a chance you may be able to claim it under the adverse possesion laws (essentially squatters rights). I'll have a look at how long it would have had to have been, i think its in the region of 10 years. I wouldn't advise just paving it, it could all get rather messy, you know what local government can get like.

Parents-in-law extended the width of their driveway and changed part of the curb in the process. They ended up having to put it back to it's original state because the council didn't give them permission to do it. Get advice.

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Parents-in-law extended the width of their driveway and changed part of the curb in the process. They ended up having to put it back to it's original state because the council didn't give them permission to do it. Get advice.

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Changing the kerb is slightly more complicated, and in some cases requires Planning Permission.

But as you said, worst that can happen is that the Local Authority make you put is back as was.

Kev.

The LA can't fine you, only a Magistrates Court can do that, so in reality, if you return the land to its former use before you get a court summons (or even before the court date) I assume there is nothing they can do.

From my experience the LA will firstly write to you telling you that you've done wrong, and give you a time limit to rectify or apply for permission. If you sort it out, all well and good. If you ignore it then I assume that they would have to apply to the courts for a date to prosecute you, which won't happen quickly.

But as I said before, the LA does not go around looking for extra work, and hates taking people to court anyway, the only way the LA will find out about your mods will be a neighbour complaint.

Dropping curbs opens another can of worms, and as you don't want to do that, I'll leave it there.

Kev.

I say do the drive.

With regard to your conservatory, you need to get this sorted out in writing, conveyancing is difficult enough as it is, but it's changing soon and will be even more difficult to let any extension slip through.

I may be able to give you some advice on the Planning Issues.

Kev.

And just to clarify - Planning don't care 2 hoots if you pave part of the Councils land, it has nothing to do with them.

Kev.

I can see what you mean about the gravel, it will be everywhere.

What about laying some paving slabs in 2 lines for the wheels of your van to line up. This will then emphasise that it isn't your land, but your just trying to keep the close looking clean and tidy with some needed offroad parking. Whereas your drive will be laid with decent slabs, relating that to your home.

If someone objects, then just lift the laid slabs and re-turf.

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i put a conservatory up without any permission.... it was built within their guidelines and on their advice, i built it after they knocked me back on an extension... they said, if ever there was a problem, i could apply for retrospective planning permission which wouldnt be a problem as long as no neighbours complained...which they havent and wont...

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If they said that, it's ******.

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secondly, because i put the conservatory up, i put a small window in my gable end to let light into the kitchen.... again, to get round permission, i put obscurred glass in as my gable faces the back of a neighbours house....


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Not sure on the legality here, but it sounds odd to me.

Kev.

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if someone was purchasing my house, would there survey tell them that the bit of land i park my van on is illegally paved or doesent belong to me and demand some sort of rectification... or would it just advise the buyer of these facts....???

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I seriously doubt that any surveyor would pick that up.

Kev.

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whats the score then kev..... youve got me worried now.

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Firstly, don't worry, there's very little in this world that can't be sorted.

Planning Permission is not my main area of expertise, but I know alittle, and know where to find more.

You have a certain amount of "Permitted Development", (which your conservatory extension may fit into) which basically means you have the right to extend your home to a certain limit without requiring Planning Permission, in certain circumstances. It's measured in cubic meters and off the top of my head if semi detached you have 50m3 PD and if detached 75m3 PD.

The statement of "just go ahead and if you need PP get it retrospectively" is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif, you either need PP or you don't, why would they advise you to do it off the record? If they have then the LA needs a good kick.

PP takes into account neighbours views but that's all, neighbours don't get the say as to if you can have PP or not, there are alot of other factors to consider and all applications must be determined upon these factors, not what neighbours think.

If you want to PM over exact details I'll see what I can find out for you, but above all, don't fret about it mate.

Kev.

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is the worst case senario that i would have to remove the section of drive ?

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In my humble opinion, yes.

I can find out the definate answer for you though, give me a couple of days.

Kev.

Just one me lunch break now, I hear what you're saying and I'll reply tonight when I have more time.

You've got your wire's slightly crossed my friend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

Kev.

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the details i have on the conny are as follows......

they say as long as its under 30 square meters and under 4 m in hight and not made into an integral part of the house.... its o.k.........
that is, building regs dont apply.
i think you need permission though..... they replied to my informal application by saying i would need permission as it would lie within 18 m of a highway at the rear of the house ....
i told them that its around 16-18m and then there is a huge enbankment and a copse of trees.... they said , dont worry, just do it.... the onjly problem is if a neighbour complains, then i would need retrospective planning permission.........????

the only reason i asked them in the first place was because i took the origional kitchen window out and put nice glass blocks in instead and i took off the back door and fitted an interal more decorative style of door.... so i never altered any structure or made it an integral part of the house, i merely changed the materials in the window and door openings.....
as for the gable end window, i just did it.... the only regulation i know of is that if you put a window in a wall which faces a rear aspect of a house and is within certain distance itr must be obscurred glass for the purpose of privacy....

i may of been led up the garden path on both of theese ???

so you see, with the drive aswell, i dont want to push my luck and end up having to take the conservatory down.... i can handle taking up the drive, but not the conny......

also, they said, that if the conny was up for five years and no one had objected, there would be no problem.

???????
what do you think kev......

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Ok, lets start with the easiest first...

The Window

Unless you live in a conservation area, the building is listed or you have specific restrictions placed on your property through planning conditions which would have been implimented at the time of building your property... Then you don't need PP for the window.

You are only likely to have planning conditions placed on your property if it was built recently, if not you're probably in the clear. To be sure you could go to the LA and ask to see the planning history for your property and any files related to it - then you'll know for sure.

The Conservatory

Well, as I said before, you have a certain limit to which you can extend your home without required PP, it's call Permitted Development (PD). If Terraced or semi, you are allowed to extend upto 50m3 without permission, if detached you may extend upto 70m3 without requiring PP. So you're going to need to measure your conservatory and see what it comes to.

Now, normally, a conservatory would go on the rear of the house, keep it with the PD requirements and you do not need PP to erect it. However, PD has a clause in which says if the extension faces a highway, and is within 20m, your PD is revoked, i.e. you need to apply for permission.

Now from what I understand your Conservatory is on the rear of your property, but you have a road to the side. If the road is within 20m the you have no PD for that conservatory and therefore require PP to erect it.

However, Locally the Planning Department take the view that if you have a higway to the side or rear of your property, as long as your extension does not come forward of the "building line" on that elevation then you are OK, and do not need to apply for permission.

I will try and find a copy of the PDO (Permitted Development Order) and clarify the exact wording for you.

So, to summarise, if your conservatory is less than the cubic capaity stated above (either 50 or 70) and is more than 20m from the highway (or &lt;20m but behind the "building line"), then you <u>do not need planning permission.</u>

If either of the above statements are untrue then you do need permission - if that's the case let me know and I'll give you the options available to you.

The Drive

I really got no where with this today, I may well yet though, but my advice still stands - as Nike would say - Just Do It.




Alot of the things you stated above were confused, the 30m2 is a Building Regulation requirement to be exempt, the 4m high is a Planning Requirement for PD, but has nothing to do with an attached conservatory, only detached buildings &gt;5m from your dwelling with a pitched roof.... I could go on.

FYI the requirements for an exempt conservatory under the BR is &lt;30m2, sunstantially translucent roof covering, safety glass in critical locations, and unheated (although this has recently changed).

When did you install the window? If after April 1st 2002 shall I mention FENSA?

I hope this helps...

Kev.

And 2 things I forgot to add, but I can't edit the post now...

The cubic capacity you are allowed (either 50 or 70) is total for any extensions to the house since it was built. I.e. if you already have an extension (or an outbuilding, such as a detached garage within 5m of the house) you need to add the capacities together.

Secondly, for a conservatory to be exempt under the BR it must also be physically separated (e.g. doors) from the main dwelling.

Kev.

myzeneye,

Your local council will keep a register of its land assets. This should include all the public open spaces left over after a housing development has been built. My local council is selling these bits off to adjacent householders to reduce the cost of its ground maintenance programme so find the name of the Asset Management Officer at your district council and ask if they'd be willing to sell and for how much.

With regards to your conservatory; I'd suggest you ask if permission might be required for one - you might find it isn't, in which case you're in the clear. If it is, I'd advise applying for retrospective planning permission otherwise, as you realise, you may have problems when selling.

The window? Same applies really although if you've used frosted glass you've met the most likely condition that would be applied.

Have a look at your council's web site; there may be information there.

As far as the window is concerned, you're ok.

As far as the conservatory is concerned lets just clear this Planning / Building Regs thing up.

I won't go into the whys and wherefores (unless you really want to be bored some more) but as long as you have a TRV fitted to your radiator in the conservatory, then from what you've told me your conservatory will be exempt from Building Regulations - so no need to worry there.

However, from what you've said, to the strict letter of the law you would have required Planning Permission for the conservatory. Purely because the highway is with 20m.

However your property sounds as if it is completely screened from the road and cannot be seen? Which I think will work in your favour when determining any application you may submit.

From what I can see you have 3 choices...

1) Leave all as is, take the risk that the conservatory is investigated when you come to sell your house and found not to have permission. This will delay / collapse the sale.

2) Apply for retrospective permission, get it all sorted out and the paperwork straight now.

3) live there for another 9 years and then apply for a certificate of lawful development - basically after 10 years you can have it gratis.

As I've said before, conveyancing is changing in 2007 and I think alterations like these are going to be picked up more frequently, I'll doubt you'd get away with it mate, and is it worth the hassle and stress at the time? Moving house is stressful enough, you don't want to make it more complicated for yourself.

Lots of people get caught out by this 20m rule, and others. I regularly see people having to apply for retrospective permission (for conservatories) because they've been caught out come house sale time, so many people get caught because alot of conservatory companies tell them that they do not need PP (so as not to loose a sale)? - or so the owners tell the Planners, but I can believe them.

The only other thing I'd add is that from all retospective planning applications that I've been aware of/involved in I've not yet known one where they have made someone remove the building, alter it maybe, but not remove.

If I were you I'd get it sorted out, you don't need to pay a fortune, you'll need before and after plans/elevations (just go to a plans preparer or surveyor - not an architect) a site plan to scale (your LA can provide these for about £25) and an Planning Application.

So first step, phone them up, tell them what you've built, and ask if you would have needed permission for it. If they say no, count your lucky stars and ask the Planners for that in writing. If they say yes you would have needed permission, as them to send you the forms, then go and seek out a local agent who can do it all for you if you can't prepare the plans yourself.

Kev.

No worries fella /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif

Kev.

myzene - just a thought but, if you have problems with paving the grassed area alongside your driveway, you could always lay some grating.
A friend of mine had a similar issue. He was parking his car alongside his house and when the weather changed it turned into a quagmire. He didnt want to try and lay flags in case of issues with the council.
He purchased some galvanised kennedy grating and laid that, the grass grew through it and you would never know it was there