My mum needs to go to court!

jojo · Aug 25, 2012

This all feels like a frikin scam!

A few months back in May time, my mum was sitting in traffic that was non moving, unlucky for her, she took her eyes off the road to get some tissue from her bag. She drive's an Auto Honda Jazz that has auto creep built in when you release the brake! Anyways, her version of it was she was at the front of the queue, heading onto a roundabout, but it was chokka, so no movement! Once she had wiped her nose, she released the brake and the car crept forward, and this is when a woman suddenly appeared from nowhere in front of her car picking herself up from the road! So she slams the brake on!!

Anyways, her version of events was she got out the car to see if said woman was ok, she was walking with a limp, my mum has no idea if she hit her or not, but she asked if she was ok, and if she needed treatment or a ride to the hospital? The woman just flately refused help and limped off over the road. My mother didn't know what to do now, so just hopped in her car and carried on the rest of her journey....

... then in July, she gets a letter from the Police asking who the driver of Honda Jazz reg XXXXXXX, on so and so date and time, and this is the first time I heard of the incident personally. My sister dealt with it and supplied a written statement to the police etc.

Then yesterday, she receives a 2nd letter that she needs to make a court appearance for this incident. She's being charged for failing to stop after an accident and failure to provide name and address. And a second charge of beind involved in a vehicle accident and failing to report that accident.

Now my mum is obviously worried as an old person can be, but I'm assuring her she hadn't done nothing wrong, she will be fine.

Anyone with experience can give any input on this?

As far as I'm concerned, she's not done anything wrong, but then I'm biased, as she me mom! But more importantly, the person that my mother was suppose to have hit walked away and not requested details or anything at the scene of the accident, and my mother is not at an age to go running after her.

Thoughts?

marktdisport · Aug 25, 2012

Sounds like a scam and since when do you fall down if a car is crawling towards you..

Broken Byzan · Aug 25, 2012

It doesn't sound right. You'd bang on the bonnet or something not let a car crawl over you.

Hopefully the judge will see reason too Joe

jojo · Aug 25, 2012

marktdisport said:
Sounds like a scam and since when do you fall down if a car is crawling towards you..

Byzan Pics said:
It doesn't sound right. You'd bang on the bonnet or something not let a car crawl over you.

Hopefully the judge will see reason too Joe

Totally agree guys, but picture the view from the car behind! Brakes slams on, woman picks herself up from the road and walks off with a limp... see where it's all going?

Funny thing is, the woman walked away, and managed to get my mums reg plate, so I'm thinking someone else may have reported it?

Anyways, I forgot to mention another predicament. The incident happened when my mum was insured with AA, but she changed insurers in July. Both have legal protection, so who do we go with?!

AudiNutta · Aug 26, 2012

Sounds like a scam to me. No way would your mum have knocked her down crawling forwards. I would say the woman may have had her leg clipped. (Your mum not seeing) And she decided to get down and make it look like she was ran over out of anger? Maybe she was thinking compensation? Anyway to me sounds like a scam. Good luck in court, don't they have CCTV where it happened? Not sure if they would go back that far in footage however

jdp1962 · Aug 26, 2012

jojo said:
Anyways, I forgot to mention another predicament. The incident happened when my mum was insured with AA, but she changed insurers in July. Both have legal protection, so who do we go with?!

Jojo, contact her current insurer immediately, and ask for the legal protection section. They should be able to help. As I understand it, it's not about who covered her when the incident happened, but about who covers her now.

Best of luck, buddy.

rizo9 · Aug 26, 2012

jdp1962 said:
Jojo, contact her current insurer immediately, and ask for the legal protection section. They should be able to help. As I understand it, it's not about who covered her when the incident happened, but about who covers her now.

Best of luck, buddy.

you need to speak to her old insurer asap about this. its on a claims occurring basis meaning the old policy will pick it up also legal cover under that old policy will pay.

jojo · Aug 26, 2012

jdp1962 said:
Jojo, contact her current insurer immediately, and ask for the legal protection section. They should be able to help. As I understand it, it's not about who covered her when the incident happened, but about who covers her now.

Best of luck, buddy.

rizo9 said:
you need to speak to her old insurer asap about this. its on a claims occurring basis meaning the old policy will pick it up also legal cover under that old policy will pay.

Cheers guys, I've been informed I have very little to worry about. It's more to do with not reporting the incident and giving out personal details after the incident, than it is with the woman in the road.

I will report back of any updates.

StateOfPlay · Aug 26, 2012

You say your mum has to go to court for motoring offences, but haven't mentioned if anyone has approached her for her insurance details, or written requesting compensation?

sidibear · Aug 26, 2012

Get a copy of the other persons medical report and witness statements, you are entitled to it under the disclosure law.

brasiliangringo · Aug 26, 2012

I'm not a legal expert so bear that in mind:

She did stop, and if they don't have a CCTV camera to prove it, then its her word against the other persons imo and there is no real reason why a law abiding person with car insurance would lie under oath on that one really or not stop at the scene unless she was intoxicated (or insert other cyincal reason) but im sure that is not the case and witnesses can testify her good conduct etc, before and to her recollection of events after, so why would she evade the scene? Furthermore, as i also understand it, the location was not a pedestrian crossing or right of way - ie the person should not have been there? Sounds to me like there is an Ambulance chaser behind this one. Like others have said, you need your insurers legal advice / professional support.

And out of interest, isn't it the person/claimant/ victim (whatever the description is) who presses charges through the police ? The police wont pursue it unless the individual requests it surely ? EG, If someone beats me up, i can drop charges, similar thing. Therefore they are going to have to lie under oath and say your mother never stopped which will be quite an interesting argument given your mother had no reason not to..

Pops848 · Aug 26, 2012

brasiliangringo said:
I'm not a legal expert so bear that in mind:

She did stop, and if they don't have a CCTV camera to prove it, then its her word against the other persons imo and there is no real reason why a law abiding person with car insurance would lie under oath on that one really or not stop at the scene unless she was intoxicated (or insert other cyincal reason) but im sure that is not the case and witnesses can testify her good conduct etc, before and to her recollection of events after, so why would she evade the scene? Furthermore, as i also understand it, the location was not a pedestrian crossing or right of way - ie the person should not have been there? Sounds to me like there is an Ambulance chaser behind this one. Like others have said, you need your insurers legal advice / professional support.

And out of interest, isn't it the person/claimant/ victim (whatever the description is) who presses charges through the police ? The police wont pursue it unless the individual requests it surely ? EG, If someone beats me up, i can drop charges, similar thing. Therefore they are going to have to lie under oath and say your mother never stopped which will be quite an interesting argument given your mother had no reason not to..

Just a bit of background information regarding who presses charges....

Civil Law
This is when it is one person suing another, for whatever reason. It can be anything that makes the prosecution feel disadvantaged. In America there has been a case of a surfer suing another because he 'stole' his wave and didn't surf it right.

Criminal Law
This is when the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) deem that a law has been broken and there is enough evidence to go to court and successfully press charges.

Only the CPS can press charges for criminal actions (such as fleeing the scene of an accident), this cannot be brought onto one member of the public by another.
You can get mixed cases though, when the CPS prosecute and the outcome is in favour of the prosecution whereby the defendant is found guilty and is punished for this (Community service, custodial etc) AND a sum of money is awarded to the prosecution. These are not as frequent though and tend to go through to Crown courts etc.

To use your case specifically, if someone beats you up, you end up in a coma for 3 weeks and when you come around you can decide not to press charges, but the police may step in, submit evidence to CPS and then CPS decide to prosecute under attempted murder / GBH.
It all becomes very complicated and without legal aid / legal advice there is no chance in hell of the average Joe trying to understand how our legal system works.

Personally, from the events described the case will be chucked out within the hour! Either that, or a scam. The police would first invite your mum to come into the station for questioning, only then would the CPS be informed and they make a decision as to whether to prosecute. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a letter saying "out of court settlement £2500". Use it as toilet paper and go to court because this is a ridiculous stupid waste of tax payers money from people who think they are entitled to money because they were too stupid to use a pedestrian crossing.

brasiliangringo · Aug 26, 2012

^ ok interesting info there.

murran · Aug 26, 2012

my mum had to go to court because of an accident.
this woman came barreling into a large roundabout from a dual carrigeway straight infront of my mum and my mums front corner went straight into her drivers door.
the woman tried saying it was my mum that went thru a red light on the roadabout when infact it was her that went thru one coming on to the roundabout at speed.
anyway it was deemed a 50/50 claim by the insurance.

months later my mum got a summons to court. the woman was suing my mum for her insurance excess/loss of earnings/stress etc. due to my mums "dangerous/reckless driving".

it got thrown out by the judge.

Pops848 · Aug 26, 2012

I find it totally crazy stupid when people take one another to court for their stupid behaviour. I was knocked off my push bike by a taxi, got nearly 2k in compo but I had my hand in plaster for 6 weeks and numerous follow up appointments for my wrist at the hospital for 2 years. Still don't fully know if my scaphoid was fractured but all I wanted was my pushbike replaced as the frame was bent. Taxi driver said he'd buy me a new frame if I paid for the damage to his taxi. Cost him alot more then £1000 in the end - his error

colicabcadam · Aug 26, 2012

i very much doubt this is a scam to be honest, if a car hits you at 4mph it can knock you down, very easily, the fact that your mother was not looking forward when it happened really does not help

whoever got knocked over has clearly been sucked into the thousands of "had an accident, make a claim" adverts and has realised they can get easy money

always report any incident to police - no matter how minor it is !!

i have seen so many people taken advantage of simply because they did not report it

it's your mums word against theirs, get a good lawyer and request evidence, or even go back to the area and look for cctv, if there is none, tell her to state she cannot remember it happening

jojo · Aug 26, 2012

colicabcadam said:
i very much doubt this is a scam to be honest, if a car hits you at 4mph it can knock you down, very easily, the fact that your mother was not looking forward when it happened really does not help

whoever got knocked over has clearly been sucked into the thousands of "had an accident, make a claim" adverts and has realised they can get easy money

always report any incident to police - no matter how minor it is !!

i have seen so many people taken advantage of simply because they did not report it

it's your mums word against theirs, get a good lawyer and request evidence, or even go back to the area and look for cctv, if there is none, tell her to state she cannot remember it happening

I think I need to make it clear that my mother only released the brake after looking forwards, she was stuck in traffic. When she started creeping forward, a woman appeared from the front of her car, picking herself up from the floor, so my mum pressed the brake again, my mum may have moved a couple of inches?! Of course this is my mother's version of events, and I'm not going to doubt her!

As far as my mum was concerned, she never made contact, so from her point of view, there was NOTHING TO REPORT!

Nilz · Aug 27, 2012

Jo drop me a text or give us a call when you are free tomorrow, I will get my bro to give you a shout or you can give him a call, he is a Solicitor and may be able to provide you with some advice on this mate.

jojo · Aug 28, 2012

Nilz said:
Jo drop me a text or give us a call when you are free tomorrow, I will get my bro to give you a shout or you can give him a call, he is a Solicitor and may be able to provide you with some advice on this mate.

Cheers Nilzy, but I've left this with my sister to sort out, so everything should be cool.

Sarah's A3 · Aug 28, 2012

Not sure if its the same but a few years ago when we were still in the UK there was a spate of 'phoney' accidents. It was usually at the same 3 or 4 roundabouts where someone would walk in front of cars in heavy traffic or use their car to get run into the back of. They then claimed heaps from insurance companies. Luckily for most one site was close to some offices where they realised what was happening after a few days and started to record it. The people got prosecuted. Again not sure if this is the case for your mum but does sound similar.

Anyway, hope you get it all sorted for her Joe, its very worrying for folk when they are older.

Nilz · Aug 28, 2012

I remember this Sarah, it tied in with one of the bigger cash for crashes stories, as it always seemed to happen on the same few locations and the claims teams got suspicious, investigated and ended up doing the culprits!!

No worries Jo, let me know if you do need any additional help though ok mate

quattrojames · Aug 28, 2012

Be careful not to confuse a civil claim with a criminal prosecution.

Turkster · Aug 28, 2012

it smells like a scam jo mate, at the top of this page is a camera that fits to the front windscreen that films all that goes on, I'm seriously thinking of getting one, not because i'm a bad driver but because of scams like this and the crash 4 cash scammers out there, the one at the top has a really good camera on it, i found a review on youtube,

jojo · Sep 13, 2012

Just a quicky update, Mum went to court today, just to acknowledge who she is and plead not guilt to the charges, so a 2nd court date has been arranged. Car insurance legal cover, covers for the incident itself, there's 2 witnesses apparently, so their words against my mothers?
We had duty solicitors there today which was free.

sidibear · Sep 14, 2012

Turkster said:
at the top of this page is a camera that fits to the front windscreen that films all that goes on, I'm seriously thinking of getting one, not because i'm a bad driver but because of scams like this and the crash 4 cash scammers out there, the one at the top has a really good camera on it,

I am getting one fitted as they are all crap drivers around by me. Twice in the last few weeks I have narrowly avoided being rammed by a car that was turning around in a junction. Also had someone cut in front of me and hit the brakes two weeks ago exiting the M25 to get to South Mimms services, managed to miss it as I was kinda expecting it.

jojo · Sep 14, 2012

sidibear said:
I am getting one fitted as they are all crap drivers around by me. Twice in the last few weeks I have narrowly avoided being rammed by a car that was turning around in a junction. Also had someone cut in front of me and hit the brakes two weeks ago exiting the M25 to get to South Mimms services, managed to miss it as I was kinda expecting it.

Birmingham must be near the top of dodgy traffic crimes Paul, I have my sources!

_G_ · Sep 14, 2012

1. Where do we get this camera from? I'm interested...

2... Some advice Joe. Duty Solicitors... some are good and some are bad but you can always do better. With this kind of isht it would be best to get a motor claims specialist solicitor... and they are worth every penny! May be even some impartial advice from a QC if you know one. I was not happy with the legal firm that my insurer recommended so I paid out of pocket for my own - £50 for 15 minutes of telephone advice and then £80 for further advice. It could have got a bit more expensive but I chose to represent myself armed with the knowledge from the solicitor. Anyhow, I hope things work out for your mum. This happened to me once... and the outcome was: CD20, 6 points and £180 fine. There was one bogus witness but it could have been much worse. If I did not have the specialist input I had then I could have been looking at thousands in fines and possible short term imprisonment and/or driving ban.... such a nasty world we live in. Seen so many crash for cash claims over these last several years and been lucky enough to escape a few bar one.

ps. good job upper models/certain cars have the option of distance control from the car in front (but not the one behind).

jojo · Oct 18, 2012

Just a quicky update on this, as there's been a few developments over the last week.

So my mum has an appointment with the law next Thursday for the criminal side of things, i.e. failure to report an incident, and failure to stop at an incident. It's her word against 2 witnesses. We even had a lovely call from the other party's solicitor asking if my mother would take the lesser charge of careless driving out of court(no trial), so the claimant can make a minor injuries claim, my sister was up for it, as this case is going to cost my mother 900 quid in solicitor fees. I flat refused, my mum says she made no contact, and I believe my mum! Going to see solicitors in the morning to see how strong our case is and what our options are.

I'd rather give £900 to the solicitors than let a skank abuse our system, putting the insurance up for everyone!

The Civil side of it can only come about if my mum is found guilty of the criminal side, so if the courts says she's guilty, then they are saying my mum made contact and drove off, despite her stopping and getting out the car etc. This part of the case is paid for by the legal insurance of her car insurance policy, and the guy was very helpful(he's a barrister by trade), and thinks something dodgy is going on, so thinks we have a strong case of it not going to the civil claim, but has to do the work just incase.

jdp1962 · Oct 18, 2012

Fingers crossed for your mum, Jojo.

Artimus · Oct 19, 2012

I not only wish you all the best, but hope the cheats get prosecuted for making fraudulent claims.

@udi A3 · Oct 19, 2012

Good luck ill be keen to see the outcome here.
From a recent incident of a young kid riding into my wing mirror, i learnt that if he came forward after 24 hours after the incident, he could be pursued by cps for failing to stop and report a incident!
You have 24 hours to report incidents where a third party is involved.Regardless of whats said or agreed on the roadside, you should take details if possible and report it no matter how minor, within 24 hours.

I hope the court doesnt choose to make an example of your mom.

jojo · Oct 19, 2012

Just got back from solicitors... it's agreed that we will go to trial, she put forward the option of admitting careless driving, but I insisted my mum never made contact, why would we plead guilty to a charge?, so she says trial it is.

Looking at the statements, they have the actual victim, and a driver of another car who was a few cars behind which are both the same story, says my mum hit the woman and drove off rapidly the lying £$%^%&'s, my mum would never do that!

Anyways, the solicitor says it's stacked up against us, so it's upto her to put an element of doubt into the jury for my mum to be in the clear. One of the thing she noticed was the victim managed to get my mum's height, and my mum was suppose to have been in the car the whole time, but she got out, and my mum has a full description of what the victim was wearing! Even I have to be some kind of witness too, to describe the working of my mums cars apparently, as I know the car very well?!?, so I can't watch the trial and have to wait to give evidence! :wtf:

Fingers crossed it's a walk in the park, as anything other than acquittal means no justice has been done for both my mother and other motorists on the road!

@udi A3 · Oct 19, 2012

How could driver a few cars behind see that your mum made contact? and if she did, did she drive AROUND the injured party then off at speed?

Also you said injured party insited on needing no help and walked off, so where did the car behind get involved? I highly doubt a car 2 cars behind you would be considered a reliable witness, as there is no was they could actually SEE the front contact.

sidibear · Oct 19, 2012

Blackvue for you mums Xmas pressy ?

Hope it all goes well for you and your mum and the fraudsters get hammered.

hades- · Oct 19, 2012

good luck for your mum
hope the jury are better than the ones i had

jojo · Oct 19, 2012

sidibear said:
Blackvue for you mums Xmas pressy ?

Hope it all goes well for you and your mum and the fraudsters get hammered.

6 months too late Paul! lol

fallmonk · Oct 19, 2012

Feck JoJo,
Hope your wee mammy is ok with all this and not to stressed , sounds like someone is trying to just get cash out you's and was hoping you would have folded a long time ago !
Hope it all gets sorted in your favour best of luck Mick

jojo · Oct 19, 2012

fallmonk said:
Feck JoJo,
Hope your wee mammy is ok with all this and not to stressed , sounds like someone is trying to just get cash out you's and was hoping you would have folded a long time ago !
Hope it all gets sorted in your favour best of luck Mick

My mum is not overly stressed, she knows she aint done nothing wrong, more just the hassle of it all to be honest.

jojo · Oct 24, 2012

So the trial is tomorrow, I'm not feeling great, dying from manflu, but I will turn up tomorrow. As I'm suppose to give evidence to describe the working of my mother's car, should I turn up in smart wear? Something tells me that because I'm not a mechanic,engineer or vehicle specialist, the information I can provide under oath is useless? Not too sure why the solicitor wanted me to go up there for? I was trying to explain to her my Mum's Honda Jazz has 'auto creep', but it's not like a Mercedes one where the car will roll forward when you release the brake, there's a slight delay, as it's a CVT, the car will roll back on a hill.

hades- · Oct 24, 2012

yeah smart wear will do
but wouldnt have done it
your mum should tell them how HER car works
also your gona say about the auto creep it might not help her out
as the auto creep could be used by the other party as the reason for been hit.

My mum needs to go to court!

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