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    Average Speed Camera(SPECS) Laws

    Alright lads,

    Does anyone know the law standing on requirements of the SPECS cams must adhere to, to be legally put forward as evidence.

    I.e calibration only once in 12months?

    Basically i've received 4 speeding tickets down the same stretch of m62 in 28days and i feel they're at error so im trying to research my legal standing, doing alot of googling. If i was to accept all 4 that would mean 12points, you know what that means.

    Any guidance is appreciated,

    Jrd
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    Would that be the strectch west and east M606 AND M621 way? I nearly been done there with the buggers a few times. I'm sorry I cant help, all I know is that they are the hardest to get away with due to the fact they are the smartest cameras, what kind of speeds did they get you at? what were the traffic/road conditions. Most likely they will be well calibrated and maintained, in roadworks they are used to slow traffic to protect the workforce. I think you can ask for maintance records etc via a solicitor not 100%. Anyway good look just remember if it does go to court a well worded letter of mitigation can work wonders.

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    Its the stretch between J26 and around J28.

    Tickets;

    1 x 12.30pm workman present i guess, dry conditions, traffic usual tempo 61mph
    1 x 2.39am dry, no workmen, no cars 57mph
    Other one ive only just got ill have to check.

    Ive requested calibration certificate on 1st one which was 2.39am and they've provided it, I beleive an infra-red picture is taken, requestable?

    Annoys me because its more dangerous the people that sit at 35mph making sure they go nowhere near 50, causes tail backs miles long causing excessive braking. Punishment should be aimed at excessive slow drivers.
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    Hi mate my advice would be keep asking for photos and certs as it takes ages for them to process these requests posts things back at the end of every 28 day period and finally request a court hearing
    The longer you fob them off the more chance there is of them running out of there 6 month window
    I know as I got away with a sp30 this way
    If you do go to court get a specialist traffic lawyer loads on net
    Get a hearing and provide letters from your employer saying they will have to let you go if you loose your DL
    Also character reference letters from wife saying how much strain it would put on marriage and child are if you lost your DL
    Look remorseful
    And somber in court
    Good luck pal

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    Try http://beatthespeedtrap.co.uk/ and look at the drive protect section, they are specialists at this sort of thing but no idea of the cost, they offer a chaufer policy to keep you on the road if you loose your licence, hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by - Jrd - View Post
    Alright lads,

    Does anyone know the law standing on requirements of the SPECS cams must adhere to, to be legally put forward as evidence.

    I.e calibration only once in 12months?

    Basically i've received 4 speeding tickets down the same stretch of m62 in 28days and i feel they're at error so im trying to research my legal standing, doing alot of googling. If i was to accept all 4 that would mean 12points, you know what that means.

    Any guidance is appreciated,

    Jrd
    Travel on here EVERYDAY!

    It's a total nightmare. I usually sit at an indicated 54mph on the digital read out in the MFD, in reality i'll be doing 51mph i think!


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    More than 11,000 caught speeding on the M62 in 2011 - Local West Yorkshire News - News - Huddersfield Examiner

    Read this article, sounds to me as if the powers that be have ramped up the prosecution of motorists on the 62.

    734 caught in 2009 when the last works were on going, 1003 in the WHOLE of 2010 and now 11000! YES 11000 in the new works.

    Bumming the motorist again for their hard earned coin this year i see.


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    This is why I love cruise control,before I had that I'd get distracted and speed up and then realise and I would have to drive like a grannie the rest of the specs zone.

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    I have the Camera Alert app on my iPhone and put it on during the Specs zone, gives you your average and actual speed.

    Try here for the legal stuff, has a great forum too:
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    Quote Originally Posted by voorhees View Post
    This is why I love cruise control,before I had that I'd get distracted and speed up and then realise and I would have to drive like a grannie the rest of the specs zone.
    +1 for cruise here too!


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  12. #11
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    i dont think you have a chance of geting away with them
    asa there called they measure you over a distance ans with 4 if they all him the mag on the same day there gona look kinda bad as tho you aint got no regard for traffic safety
    as ianB posted get letters from the boss etc
    they may be nice and allow you to drive to keep the job
    i got done for a pretty high speed and was on 9 points i got another 6 but they let me carry on driveing cos ov the hardship it would cause me and my family
    anyway good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by voorhees View Post
    This is why I love cruise control,before I had that I'd get distracted and speed up and then realise and I would have to drive like a grannie the rest of the specs zone.
    Not got it, but its on the list. On the sprinter I set it using road angel or tomtom as they read the same speed although the speedo on the van said 55, did that for 5 months every night on that stretch even taking over a couple of traffic cops and never received anything. In the car it's a bugger without it especially if your chatting to a passenger.

  14. #13
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    im not sure but you cant be busted for the same crime twice, so you may get 1 speeding ticket & points otherwise you will be banned.

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    I 'think' you can only get one ticket on the same road per day for speeding, but I'm not 100%.

    It's not the 'same crime' spread over 28 days though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrojames View Post
    I 'think' you can only get one ticket on the same road per day for speeding, but I'm not 100%.

    It's not the 'same crime' spread over 28 days though!
    About three years ago, my brother was caught twice in the space of an hour by two GATSO cameras about 30 miles apart, on the A1 in Nottinghamshire. He was deemed to have committed two offences (rather than having been detected committing the same offence twice) and copped three points for each.
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    Yes I think it needs to be the same camera though! I'm not sure. I'll try and find out.
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  18. #17
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    The other thing I would say about my brother's experience is that he didn't contest either of the Fixed Penalty Notices, but just paid up and took the points. If he had gone to court, and argued it was the same offence detected twice, it's always possible the court would have accepted the argument. But we'll never know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsuk View Post
    Not got it, but its on the list. On the sprinter I set it using road angel or tomtom as they read the same speed although the speedo on the van said 55, did that for 5 months every night on that stretch even taking over a couple of traffic cops and never received anything. In the car it's a bugger without it especially if your chatting to a passenger.
    jboo is your man for cruise mate, get him PM'd, he sorted mine out, he come to meet me, supplied the parts and fitted the lot.
    Last edited by AidenUK; 2nd July 2012 at 16:57.


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    Oranoco's Avatar
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    You have very little chance of getting off. You need to seek proper legal advice. I feel your pain though mate as I'm in court next week to answer my first driving offence in 16 years, also looking at a ban. Bugger

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    My mother was flashed twice along the same stretch of road for doing 37 and 39 in a 30 zone she though it was a 40 zone, but that's what happens when you go to a different part of the country you don;t know... anyways, a quick phone call and she was only issued the one fine, and she received zero points as the speed aware course was offered to her which she took up!



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    feel for ya buddy. I've been driving the company truck in London of a night these past two weeks and I'm half expecting the boss to hand me a NIP or two this week ..I'd be proper gutted if that happened.
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  23. #22
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    Like above, ask for photos, do they show it was you driving???


     
    Its up to the individual council to set the "over" the speed limit policy.
    (rough guide) so if the speed limit is 50, by law they give you 3mph over, then its down to the council... they may set them from the 53 up to what they wish.
    Thats why you will see more motorists caught speeding in one area to another.



    like Jdp said, you can get caught twice on the same road in the same day.

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    Not true I'm afraid. There is no margin by law, 30mph is the limit and they can issue a ticket at 31mph. Of course this would be impractical to enforce and give terrible press to the partnerships who want everybody to believe that cameras are a cure to global poverty. Most operate a 10% plus 2mph. I have a camera outside my office that triggers at 40, limit is 30. Can't bank on anything much with speed enforcement as it seems to vary.

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    Arent the APCO guidelines 10% +2mph?

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    I travel that stretch regularly as I live in Bradford and it amazes me the number of people that fly past me over the speed limit, so I'm not surprised at the number of people caught tbh.
    I use cruise and a road angel for my true speed and never go over 50 (usually 48/49), I feel your pain though as 4 times is a little hard to take!
    Best of luck but I fear your about to get mugged!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AidenUK View Post
    734 caught in 2009 when the last works were on going, 1003 in the WHOLE of 2010 and now 11000! YES 11000 in the new works.
    wow those figures make interesting reading.
    theres no guessing how theyve come about is there?
    2009 they were set at 62mph?
    2010 they were set at 60mph?
    2011..... 50.1mph.

    and they blame this enforcement on the deaths of road workers, probably caused by a drunk 16 year old driver in a stolen car doing 120 thru a roadworks sections. naturally speed was judged to be the primary cause!

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    Not true I'm afraid. There is no margin by law, 30mph is the limit and they can issue a ticket at 31mph. Of course this would be impractical to enforce...
    It would be IMPOSSIBLE to enforce ...putting slightly larger tyres on a car than those specified by the manufacturer can cause speeding - but the practice is not outlawed.

    The 10% was allowed because of past Speedometer inaccuracies by manufacturers (they're required to err on the side of safety these days though), and it remains to this day because only the Police are legally required to regularly re-calibrate their vehicle's speedo! Your Speedo might be out and your M.O.T. wouldn't pick it up. The +2 was 'Grace', but many forces have now withdrawn this.
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    Not impossible at all as that fart Richard Brunstrom pushed the pursuit of speeders to that degree in Wales. The reason they don't enforce at the speed is because it would cost them public support, simply politics.

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    Thanks for everyones input, ill request pictures and wait calibration certs on rest, only 1 provided rest ive been told they wont supply until court.

    Ive got 0 points currently and im 22, don't want any tbh. I like my clean license
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    Did I miss something here, but with all respect how can you get 4 without realising there are specs cameras, as every single road I've been on which is all over the uk, that has those cams are clearly signed so you're aware of there existence & doesnt that area display the speed's clearly enough to follow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    Did I miss something here, but with all respect how can you get 4 without realising there are specs cameras, as every single road I've been on which is all over the uk, that has those cams are clearly signed so you're aware of there existence & doesnt that area display the speed's clearly enough to follow?
    thinking he can get away with an indicated 57mph i expect
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    plus from a road safety point of view, drivers all staring at their speedos trying to maintain a decent speed while not going too fast is guna cause accidents too as they're not paying attention to the road ahead.

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste_Nova View Post
    thinking he can get away with an indicated 57mph i expect
    You mean the road legal speed was indicated at 57 (which is unheard of lol) or his speedo was at 57 in a 50, just so I get the context of your post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    Not true I'm afraid. There is no margin by law, 30mph is the limit and they can issue a ticket at 31mph. Of course this would be impractical to enforce and give terrible press to the partnerships who want everybody to believe that cameras are a cure to global poverty. Most operate a 10% plus 2mph. I have a camera outside my office that triggers at 40, limit is 30. Can't bank on anything much with speed enforcement as it seems to vary.

    what part isn't ture?
    Its the local council that is responsible for setting the local speed limits, and they go off guidelines to set speed cameras.
    This is what i was trying to point out to Jrd, and this maybe the reason with his driving style he's been caught out on this particlar road to others!


  36. #35
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    all i will say is being given 8 points in one hit is a real barstool for your insurance next year, this i know 1st hand.

  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkster View Post
    all i will say is being given 8 points in one hit is a real barstool for your insurance next year, this i know 1st hand.
    My 6 points made little or no difference to my premium, maybe 50 quid more?



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    Quote Originally Posted by spooky1 View Post
    what part isn't ture?
    Its the local council that is responsible for setting the local speed limits, and they go off guidelines to set speed cameras.
    This is what i was trying to point out to Jrd, and this maybe the reason with his driving style he's been caught out on this particlar road to others!

    The bit that isn't true is the bit about being given 3mph by law that you stated in your first post. The limit is the limit and it can be enforced at 1mph over the limit if they so chose. There are several cases known of on Pepipoo where people have been prosecuted for 32mph in a 30mph limit.

    I also share my office with the people that are involved with the Herts Safety (sorry I can't say that with a straight face) Cameras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    The bit that isn't true is the bit about being given 3mph by law that you stated in your first post
    .
    lmao... i did post... "(rough guide)"

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsuk View Post
    Not got it, but its on the list. On the sprinter I set it using road angel or tomtom as they read the same speed although the speedo on the van said 55, did that for 5 months every night on that stretch even taking over a couple of traffic cops and never received anything. In the car it's a bugger without it especially if your chatting to a passenger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oranoco View Post
    .... Most operate a 10% plus 2mph. I have a camera outside my office that triggers at 40, limit is 30. Can't bank on anything much with speed enforcement as it seems to vary.
    Due to minor discrepancies in speedo readings, this does apply, although I believe SPECS cameras tend to have their limit increased further to reduce the amount of fines issued. Apparently it is quite expensive to process the fine. Your even less likely to get a fine from driving through roadworks, but it does depend on the enforcing agent.
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