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  1. #1
    H88
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    Problem with road tax.....gotta go to court for 1 day late..HELP PLEASE

    Hi people

    Last year september I purchased a car with with no Road tax and I parked it in front of my house and it was locked and given a fine of £250. Basically I bough a car on saturday and I didn't buy road tax until Tuesday because I couldn't get my insurance sorted so I have to waited until Tuesday.

    However when I woke up on Tuesday morning,I found my car front wheels has been locked with a fine notice because of no road tax. I rang up and pay for the fine then I bough the road tax the same day. I have also brough it to DVLA car compound to prove I have got road tax. They refunded me 120 through my bank and since then its ok. However 2 weeks ago I received a letter that I will need to go to court in august because of this problem.

    I was very surprised and piss off so I wrote a letter to make an appeal against this decision and send it back to them along with the original letter. In the letter I have explained to them that I bough the car on Saturday so its weekend,there is no way I can get road tax from post office at weekend. I have also explained to them in the letter that I couldn't buy it on Monday as I couldn't get my insurance sorted. However I have bough it next day (Tuesday) and paid for the fine.

    Since then it has been a week and I am still waiting for a reply back. Did anyone has problem before. Can someone on here please advise me what should I do.

    Any help will be much appreciated.

    Thank you

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  3. #2
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    If you couldn't sort insurance out, does this mean the car was park on a public road, eg outside yor house uninsured, failing that if you can prove the fine was paid take this
    along. Do you think the court hearing may be as mistake that they think you havnt paid the fine?

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    Is the court summons definitely for the car not being taxed, or is it for the car not being insured? I ask this because I would imagine that, in the eyes of the law, two separate offences were being committed. Since June of last year, it has been against the law to park (or even garage) a car that is not insured (Click here for details)

    If I recall correctly, having an uninsured vehicle is what the law calls an absolute offence; that is, one where if you are not insured, your are deemed to have committed the offence regardless of circumstances, and there is no defence against conviction. Any representations you are able to make about why the car was not insured go towards mitigation of sentence, and not towards conviction or acquittal.
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  5. #4
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    There could be a number of issues here, as if you had no tax or insurance, the car shouldnt be on the road anyway, even if its sorned, the car still needs to have insurance, so maybe its related to that, there is also the question of how the car got to you, was it driven without tax and insurance, as it could be tied in...just try and double check what the court appearance is for and go from there.

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    H88
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    Thanks for the reply everyone. As I said I just bough the car at weekend 2 days before I get the fine. There is no way I can buy anything over the weekend so I have to wait until Monday or Tuesday. However I believe this problem is now solved as DVLA just called me today. They said they have received my letter and they have decided to give me further £54 fine and the good new is I don't have to go to court anymore once the fine is paid))

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    whats the £54 fine for?

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    ok, off the bat, only a judge can give you a fine, you have every right to write "no contract" and return it to DVLA via recorded delivery, you will notice that the word "Notice" in on the said paper work, the word "Notice" decoded in the blacks law dictionary means "Offer to Contract", so you can refuse there kind offer,

    My advise is to go to the court with all your paper work and submit it for viewing and a fully written explanation of why the said car was not taxed/insured, you will then have a much bigger chance of getting off with a caution and a warning about the future, if the prosecution cant offer a way that you could have taxed a car on a saturday/sunday then you have a case and reasonable grounds for the case to be dismissed.

    The Basics Of Law Of Contract Or Contract Law | News Truth, The Simple Truth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkster View Post
    ok, off the bat, only a judge can give you a fine, you have every right to write "no contract" and return it to DVLA via recorded delivery, you will notice that the word "Notice" in on the said paper work, the word "Notice" decoded in the blacks law dictionary means "Offer to Contract", so you can refuse there kind offer,

    My advise is to go to the court with all your paper work and submit it for viewing and a fully written explanation of why the said car was not taxed/insured, you will then have a much bigger chance of getting off with a caution and a warning about the future, if the prosecution cant offer a way that you could have taxed a car on a saturday/sunday then you have a case and reasonable grounds for the case to be dismissed.

    The Basics Of Law Of Contract Or Contract Law | News Truth, The Simple Truth

    Hmmmmm...... in the video clip, Professor Upex sets out a number of basic elements about the law of contract, but at no time does he suggest that the law of contract applies to civil prosecutions, or that the sending of a notice of intention to prosecute or a penalty charge equates to the making of an offer. That interpretation seems to be solely the work of the person who created the blog, and added the video clip to it ("Pete", I think his name is.) He may be right - I am, certainly no legal expert - but I think I'd like to see Pete's legal qualifications (or at least a further video clip of the Professor agreeing with that interpretation) before I attached any credence to this.
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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdp1962 View Post
    Hmmmmm...... in the video clip, Professor Upex sets out a number of basic elements about the law of contract, but at no time does he suggest that the law of contract applies to civil prosecutions, or that the sending of a notice of intention to prosecute or a penalty charge equates to the making of an offer. That interpretation seems to be solely the work of the person who created the blog, and added the video clip to it ("Pete", I think his name is.) He may be right - I am, certainly no legal expert - but I think I'd like to see Pete's legal qualifications (or at least a further video clip of the Professor agreeing with that interpretation) before I attached any credence to this.
    Ive been a law student for a few years now and know a little bit about the true laws and what we are powerful enough to do with a bit of education, when you are uneducated you are classed as children who need to be told what to do and when to do it, when you grow up, become educated, you are able to think for yourselves,

    I advise anyone to think for themselves and get educated and be informed, as there are a lot of people out there claiming that the law is one thing and in fact its is compleatly the other way round, AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT, but if you dont say its not right then it MUST BE TRUE.

    its like me telling you that this is a RED Audi R8, Unless you go cheeking it out then you have to take my word for it that it is and pay me £10 for the info, Would you just pay up and accept that or would you investigate it for yourself and challenge my claim ?


    have a dig around in here,
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    Last edited by Turkster; 14th June 2012 at 10:53.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkster View Post
    have a dig around in here,
    www.tpuc.org | News for positive people
    I'd say there's every bit as much chance of being mis-informed as there is of being informed by the material on this site.

    I'd also take issue with your statement that only a judge can issue a fine. Surely a magistrate can do so? I also seem to recall that police forces have the power to grant certain powers to accredited civilian personnel under Community Safety Accreditation Schemes. Under these schemes, I do believe that amongst the powers accreditation brings with it is the power to issue fines.
    Last edited by jdp1962; 14th June 2012 at 14:48.
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    Bottom line = the car wasn't taxed or insured. You might be able to argue that you couldn't get it insured at the weekend (unlikely, insurers are 24/7) and that therefor you couldn't tax it either, but I'd quite quickly argue that that is your own fault, and that you shouldn't have bought the car until it was insured and taxed. How did you get it back to your house without insurance or tax?

    An unfortunate situation to be in, and could well be a genuine mistake, but just seems naive that because you intended to get the tax etc sorted, you should be exempt from your legal obligations.

    As for the fine vs/plus court date... you'll need to get in touch with whoever sent you the letter and get clarification of the charges/claim being brought against you. You should also be aware that, since you were refunded the fee, they may have treated that as a refusal to pay which would only gove you the option to dispute the fee in court.

    Either way, good luck and hopefully lesson learned - next time don't leave it until tomorrow, get your documents in order BEFORE you finalise the sale.
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    What TURKSTER is saying is 100% true, there are far to many people/companies wanting to dish out fines to gain revenue, i have had numerous parking tickets for failing to display a ticket etc, i have never paid a single one, im not showing off or trying to look clever but when private companys give you a PCN its only an OFFER which you can decline to pay as you have not signed a contract with them!

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    What TURKSTER is saying is 100% true, there are far to many people/companies wanting to dish out fines to gain revenue, i have had numerous parking tickets for failing to display a ticket etc, i have never paid a single one, im not showing off or trying to look clever but when private companys give you a PCN its only an OFFER which you can decline to pay as you have not signed a contract with them!
    Where a private company seeks to obtain money from you by way of a "charge" for parking on its land without advance permission, that's an entirely civil matter and I can see how that might amount to an offer under the law of contract. But the OP's situation is completely different. He was, in effect, being accused of breaking the law, and was being given an opportunity to pay a fixed fine as an alternative to criminal prosecution (I realise I mistakenly referred to civil prosection in my earlier post). I still remain to be convinced that the law of contract applies in that situation.
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  15. #14
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    as above no tax your fault no insurance your own fault
    marty the refund is you get clamped he said wheels locked he ment clamp
    you get the car taxed go to recovery place show them the tax they unclamp you for a fee of £250 then refund you £120 god knows why
    it happend to me last month i bought a car insured it and left it on my drive
    vosa van clocked it with there anpr van and clamped me on the drive as it wasnt sorned idiots
    this was while i was at po taxing the car

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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    as above no tax your fault no insurance your own fault
    marty the refund is you get clamped he said wheels locked he ment clamp
    you get the car taxed go to recovery place show them the tax they unclamp you for a fee of £250 then refund you £120 god knows why
    it happend to me last month i bought a car insured it and left it on my drive
    vosa van clocked it with there anpr van and clamped me on the drive as it wasnt sorned idiots
    this was while i was at po taxing the car
    Did they clamp you on your drive ? That's classed as private land and they have NO rights to clamp you there ! I would have chopped the clamp as soon as i seen it then take it to the scrappy to weigh it in ! Remember, the car it's your property not theirs !
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  17. #16
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    they can clamp on a drive
    if the car aint sorned they can clamp i checked with my solicitor 1st

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamss24 View Post
    Did they clamp you on your drive ? That's classed as private land and they have NO rights to clamp you there ! I would have chopped the clamp as soon as i seen it then take it to the scrappy to weigh it in ! Remember, the car it's your property not theirs !
    Your car is NOT your property regardless if you have paid for it or have it on finance, You are the REGISTERED KEEPER, to register something means you are handing over everything you are registering to the person/company you are registering it to/with this means the DVLA own all vechicles! Very interesting by all means!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    Your car is NOT your property regardless if you have paid for it or have it on finance, You are the REGISTERED KEEPER, to register something means you are handing over everything you are registering to the person/company you are registering it to/with this means the DVLA own all vechicles! Very interesting by all means!
    Where do you get your information from?
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    Its simple law mate you HAVE to register a car with the DVLA, i looked in the BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY what "To register" means and thats the explanation it gives!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    Its simple law mate you HAVE to register a car with the DVLA, i looked in the BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY what "To register" means and thats the explanation it gives!
    All you are indicating here is that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Do you seriously believe that the verb "to register" only has one definition, and one meaning, the one contained in Black's Law Dictionary? Why not try the Oxford English Dictionary for evidence that there are many and varied definitions of "to register".

    Registration at the DVLA has nothing at all to do with ownership. The DVLA records keepers, not owners, and by the act of registering a vehicle with DVLA, you do not at the same time transfer ownership.
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    Blacks Law dictionary is what is used by the people who create these rules/acts etc

    Black’s Law Dictionary is known for its clear and precise legal definitions, substantive accuracy, and stylistic clarity — making it the most cited legal dictionary in print.

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    Tell me, your avatar, is that your law school graduation photograph?
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  24. #23
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    [QUOTE=Jamie1985;1605864Black’s Law Dictionary is known for its clear and precise legal definitions, substantive accuracy, and stylistic clarity — making it the most cited legal dictionary in print.[/QUOTE]

    Er, you copied and pasted that bit, didn't you?
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    Now i would applaud you for your so called humour, but would not want to encourage such childish behaviour,

    Read up on COMMON LAW not what they teach you at University,

    Have a little read or watch a few videos about John Harris, he will open your eyes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    Now i would applaud you for your so called humour, but would not want to encourage such childish behaviour,

    Read up on COMMON LAW not what they teach you at University,

    Have a little read or watch a few videos about John Harris, he will open your eyes!
    Ok, will do, I promise.
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  27. #26
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    Op seems happy to pay the £45, so he must have had an untaxed car that was not SORN and not insured.
    Live your life as if nobody is watching you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdp1962 View Post
    I'd say there's every bit as much chance of being mis-informed as there is of being informed by the material on this site.

    I'd also take issue with your statement that only a judge can issue a fine. Surely a magistrate can do so? I also seem to recall that police forces have the power to grant certain powers to accredited civilian personnel under Community Safety Accreditation Schemes. Under these schemes, I do believe that amongst the powers accreditation brings with it is the power to issue fines.
    Hi jdp,

    I hear what your saying, but you are still a product of the system and used to being lied to, look into "Common Law" and Freeman on the land" status, when you understand that you are not owned by the state (your employer) then you are educated enough to be able to conduct your own life and not live your life as a registered boat under Maritime Law which are filled by "statues and acts" that are not laws,

    Regards

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    What TURKSTER is saying is 100% true, there are far to many people/companies wanting to dish out fines to gain revenue, i have had numerous parking tickets for failing to display a ticket etc, i have never paid a single one, im not showing off or trying to look clever but when private companys give you a PCN its only an OFFER which you can decline to pay as you have not signed a contract with them!
    Thank Fook there is another one who is awake to the scam that has been going on, step away from the fear and just say NO and don't give consent by giving the name!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdp1962 View Post
    Ok, will do, I promise.
    Here, keep your promise and report back after watching this,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkster View Post
    Thank Fook there is another one who is awake to the scam that has been going on, step away from the fear and just say NO and don't give consent by giving the name!
    Im awake maybe a little too awake sometimes, i understand where JDP is coming from i was the same when somebody tried educating me, it always end up with people thinking im crazy or im making rules and regulations up, i try to educate people on the whole scam that we are falsely placed under but nobody takes me seriously!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    Im awake maybe a little too awake sometimes, i understand where JDP is coming from i was the same when somebody tried educating me, it always end up with people thinking im crazy or im making rules and regulations up, i try to educate people on the whole scam that we are falsely placed under but nobody takes me seriously!
    You cant save everyone, plant the seed and move on, don't waste too much time on the doomed to fail crew, they will just drain you of your energy and thats where they will stay, dont ever worry as your not alone on what you know, I know a lot more about things but its not stuff i will post on the forum, im a real proper nut job as they say, i was upgraded from strange to nut job which i took as a complement !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkster View Post
    You cant save everyone, plant the seed and move on, don't waste too much time on the doomed to fail crew, they will just drain you of your energy and thats where they will stay, dont ever worry as your not alone on what you know, I know a lot more about things but its not stuff i will post on the forum, im a real proper nut job as they say, i was upgraded from strange to nut job which i took as a complement !
    I know you cant but ive left him with the name John Harris (my seed) hopefully he will do some research, I would love to know what sort of stuff you know via PM if possible not to worry if not, Im pretty new to the brighter side of MY life (about 8 months knowledge) i find the whole de-registering and excercise to travel articles very interesting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    I know you cant but ive left him with the name John Harris (my seed) hopefully he will do some research, I would love to know what sort of stuff you know via PM if possible not to worry if not, Im pretty new to the brighter side of MY life (about 8 months knowledge) i find the whole de-registering and excercise to travel articles very interesting!
    John Harris is one of my personal mates, i worked with him on a building site years ago, he used to be a chippy, so that may give you an idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkster View Post
    John Harris is one of my personal mates, i worked with him on a building site years ago, he used to be a chippy, so that may give you an idea
    Lucky you what a friend to have, He has opened my eyes up to so much stuff and he explains it in layman's terms too, his website and videos are very informative aswel, pass my regards on to him for helping somebody that didnt want to be educated, so glad ive listened and learnt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    Now i would applaud you for your so called humour, but would not want to encourage such childish behaviour,

    Read up on COMMON LAW not what they teach you at University,

    Have a little read or watch a few videos about John Harris, he will open your eyes!
    They teach common law at University (well, they do in Aberdeen anyway)... how do I know? I was there, man! They also don't EVER mention using a dictionary when defining laws and acts, that's what the definitions section of the act is for (though there is often just a citation to a Black's definition).

    To be fair, unless anyone hear is an actual qualified legal practitioner, our opinions/understandings/interpretations don't count for much.

    OP - get in touch with Citizens' Advice Bureau and they'll point you to proper legal counsel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    Lucky you what a friend to have, He has opened my eyes up to so much stuff and he explains it in layman's terms too, his website and videos are very informative aswel, pass my regards on to him for helping somebody that didnt want to be educated, so glad ive listened and learnt
    You and Turkster remind me of that old quote; 'Just because I'm paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get me'...!

    But you are right, most people do not fully understand the Law, it's limitations, and their rights within it.... And I don't claim to myself..! If you really want a good conspiracy theory google 'common purpose'....... It is a truely odious ideology
    In my personal opinion

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    I Agree with a lot of what has been said by various people but DVLA do not own all vehicles.

    Yes you must register it with DVLA but ownership is proven with a bill of sale which you would get from any garage you buy a car from.

    This is why it is ALWAYS also a good idea to get a receipt of purchase for a car if you buy it privately.

    An example of a situation where you would NOT own the car would be if its on a finance scheme such as Hire Purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways steve View Post
    ownership is proven with a bill of sale

    This is not true a Receipt is a document that shows the proof of payment and not ownership!

    You register a vehicle which means you hand over everything you are registering to whom you register it with!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie1985 View Post
    This is not true a Receipt is a document that shows the proof of payment and not ownership!

    You register a vehicle which means you hand over everything you are registering to whom you register it with!
    I'm registered with my GP surgery. According to you, the surgery owns me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdp1962 View Post
    I'm registered with my GP surgery. According to you, the surgery owns me.
    Yes they do and the GP is registered with the company known as THE UNITED KINGDOM plc,

    The Surgery own you meaning they have right to do what they want with you as long as its ok with THE UNITED KINGDOM plc who own them!

 

 
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