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  1. #1
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    petrol or diesel.....

    currently im driving a r32, wanted to sell to buy an a3 2.0tdi, but with petrol and diesel prices going up, do you think that i would be better off with the diesel now?

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  3. #2
    StateOfPlay's Avatar
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    Diesel is still cheaper, just not as much as it used to be.
    Live your life as if nobody is watching you.

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    razza1's Avatar
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    There's plenty of calculators on the Web. Last time I checked you needed to do about 18k+miles per year to get the benefit.
    07 2.0T SLine SE V2 Quattro, Full Milltek with hi-flow sports cat, APR Stage 2+ 280BHP/325lb/ft, APR HPFP, K&N panel, S4 alloys, Spacers, Black Optics, Eibachs, RS4 grill and fogs, Fog tints, RS4 ARB, RS4 Gearstick, LCR splitter, Black Calipers, Drilled discs, Debadged, Colour DIS, Bose, Adaptive Xenons/DRL, Black/Silver Audi Exclusive leather, Audi Carbon inlays, carbon difuser/B pillars, RNS-E+/Bluetooth, Cruise, Int/ext light packs, Rain/light sensors, mudflaps, LED plate/side/boot/interior

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    Depends on the age of the motor too. The new 2.0T (211BHP circa 2009 on) engines quote combined consumption at around 40 mpg, whereas my 2.0 TDI (143 BHP, 2009) I actually average only 40 mpg, but then it is the multitronic.

    I'm sure the 2.0T doesn't really get 40 mpg, but it will not be far off if driven sensibly. But then petrol is 8p cheaper per litre where I am, and the cost of the petrol car will be cheaper in the first place (more than likely), so overall it would probably be cheaper for me to go Petrol.

    If your looking around 2003-2008 motors though, you are probably cheaper with diesel.
    Looking for the right A4 Quattro. 1.9 TDI / 1.8T or 2.0T...
    My A4:http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b8-chassis/125399-my-brief.html



  6. #5
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    You'll have to make that choice for yourself. Personally I just don't like how diesels drive so couldn't part with a petrol engine. My missus howver adores her little Clio diesel, especially the 70mpg it regulary gets

    Life begins at 140mph
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by razza1 View Post
    There's plenty of calculators on the Web. Last time I checked you needed to do about 18k+miles per year to get the benefit.
    Ha that figure makes me laugh as surely it depends on the vehicle. It would have to be a pretty boring petrol to keep up with most diesels economy wise.

    If you want to save money it's simples, buy a diesel. The outlay will be slightly more but it will hold it value far better than any petrol equivalent.
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  8. #7
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    I'm happy with my 1.6 fsi a3 she is good on fuel and cheap to insure and tax , i see 43+ mpg daily and on a good run I've seen 55 mpg
    ​She is back on the road yay!!

  9. #8
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    Why dont you get it LPG converted ? If you do the maths it will work out fairly cheaply over 2 years + assuming you do 10k + a year. A BRC kit (top make) costs about 1200 quid for a 4 cylinder so cant be much more and if you fancy it, you can always DIY which probably cuts the price in half.. Oh did i mention gas is 80 odd p per litre and MPG and power difference are marginal if tuned correctly.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brasiliangringo View Post
    Why dont you get it LPG converted ? If you do the maths it will work out fairly cheaply over 2 years + assuming you do 10k + a year. A BRC kit (top make) costs about 1200 quid for a 4 cylinder so cant be much more and if you fancy it, you can always DIY which probably cuts the price in half.. Oh did i mention gas is 80 odd p per litre and MPG and power difference are marginal if tuned correctly.
    my mate has his vaux astra turbo on LPG he says there isn't that much of a difference in power so recommends it to anyone
    ​She is back on the road yay!!

  11. #10
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    I have just changed to diesel for a few months while i save for a new car, I had a 8L S3 that did 22 mpg ish and the diesel Golf i am driving at the moment is doing 45+mpg with no problems, I am saving over £40 a week in fuel!

    I'm not really liking the way it drives but its saving me £160 a month in fuel.... Make your own mind up

    On the other hand i'm saving for a 2.5L petrol turbo so my saving will be short lived...
    Black S3

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacko4130 View Post
    I have just changed to diesel for a few months while i save for a new car, I had a 8L S3 that did 22 mpg ish and the diesel Golf i am driving at the moment is doing 45+mpg with no problems, I am saving over £40 a week in fuel!

    I'm not really liking the way it drives but its saving me £160 a month in fuel.... Make your own mind up

    On the other hand i'm saving for a 2.5L petrol turbo so my saving will be short lived...
    is that gona be a ST ?

  13. #12
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    Depends on use surely, for the long haul, it has to be diesel, around town, a small petrol would be economical.



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  14. #13
    razza1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportstractor View Post
    Ha that figure makes me laugh as surely it depends on the vehicle. It would have to be a pretty boring petrol to keep up with most diesels economy wise.

    If you want to save money it's simples, buy a diesel. The outlay will be slightly more but it will hold it value far better than any petrol equivalent.
    The higher initial cost of the diesel car, combined with higher costs of diesel mean you have to do a lot of miles for the benefit to make much difference.
    However, on a decent Turbo car you are running super unleaded which its more expensive than diesel anyway. Do your own calculations and see the difference. To get a decent power diesel the servicing costs are usually higher as you're looking at a 3Ltr.
    I did the calcs when I got mine, I do about 12000 miles a year and there was little difference in total monthly costs. Higher revving petrol was more fun for me...
    07 2.0T SLine SE V2 Quattro, Full Milltek with hi-flow sports cat, APR Stage 2+ 280BHP/325lb/ft, APR HPFP, K&N panel, S4 alloys, Spacers, Black Optics, Eibachs, RS4 grill and fogs, Fog tints, RS4 ARB, RS4 Gearstick, LCR splitter, Black Calipers, Drilled discs, Debadged, Colour DIS, Bose, Adaptive Xenons/DRL, Black/Silver Audi Exclusive leather, Audi Carbon inlays, carbon difuser/B pillars, RNS-E+/Bluetooth, Cruise, Int/ext light packs, Rain/light sensors, mudflaps, LED plate/side/boot/interior

  15. #14
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    It's all what you can put up with isn't it? I've had turbo diesels & just adore my S3, but quite enjoyed the peaky power delivery of the 130 bhp 1.9 PD diesel Seat Exeo (old A4 in a spanish suit) hire car that I was driving around today.

    I'm trying to choose now between a new Golf GTi or a GTD as a company car. Heart says GTi, but head says GTD with its lower BIK tax costs. Test drives may beckon...
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  16. #15
    razza1's Avatar
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    I average about 25mpg, and that's with some spirited driving thrown in.
    07 2.0T SLine SE V2 Quattro, Full Milltek with hi-flow sports cat, APR Stage 2+ 280BHP/325lb/ft, APR HPFP, K&N panel, S4 alloys, Spacers, Black Optics, Eibachs, RS4 grill and fogs, Fog tints, RS4 ARB, RS4 Gearstick, LCR splitter, Black Calipers, Drilled discs, Debadged, Colour DIS, Bose, Adaptive Xenons/DRL, Black/Silver Audi Exclusive leather, Audi Carbon inlays, carbon difuser/B pillars, RNS-E+/Bluetooth, Cruise, Int/ext light packs, Rain/light sensors, mudflaps, LED plate/side/boot/interior

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBird View Post
    It's all what you can put up with isn't it? I've had turbo diesels & just adore my S3, but quite enjoyed the peaky power delivery of the 130 bhp 1.9 PD diesel Seat Exeo (old A4 in a spanish suit) hire car that I was driving around today.

    I'm trying to choose now between a new Golf GTi or a GTD as a company car. Heart says GTi, but head says GTD with its lower BIK tax costs. Test drives may beckon...
    Nothing wrong with diesel to be honest.

    Although obviously it now costs me about £85 to fill, with almost 300bhp and 4wd i still get a good 35-40mpg!

    Try getting that from an R32, as for servicing costs, it costs me no more than £200 for a full service and thats with 8 litres of oil.


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  18. #17
    brasiliangringo's Avatar
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    Seriously, just get your R32 converted and run it at 79p per litre on LPG without any serious power or MPG loss. Its a car you know etc.. Selling yours (will not be easy given its expense running petrol) and buying another unknown car incurs a fair bit of time, hassle, risk and potential costs.

  19. #18
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    Diesel goes up every winter as it's produced from the same part of crude oil that makes heating oil. So every winter when folks want heating oil there is increased demand for that part of the crude so diesel prices go up. They will fall back down closer to the petrol levels come the spring.

    Other thing is the DPF on a modern diesel. Lots of short journeys in a modern diesel isn't good for the DPF - you either need to deliberately take the car on a long run every couple of weeks to allow regeneration; or buy a petrol instead which is more suited to short journeys. You can also remove the DPF.
    Jason
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  20. #19
    Chugger

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    Quote Originally Posted by razza1 View Post
    The higher initial cost of the diesel car, combined with higher costs of diesel mean you have to do a lot of miles for the benefit to make much difference.
    However, on a decent Turbo car you are running super unleaded which its more expensive than diesel anyway. Do your own calculations and see the difference. To get a decent power diesel the servicing costs are usually higher as you're looking at a 3Ltr.
    I did the calcs when I got mine, I do about 12000 miles a year and there was little difference in total monthly costs. Higher revving petrol was more fun for me...
    Granted the 3.0 diesels arnt cheap. But if your looking at saving money you wouldn't go for the 3.0, the 2.0 would do it, and they don't exactly cost any more to maintain over a turbo petrol. Like I said if you want to save money, go for a diesel. LPG sounds good but I cannot see them holding their value like a Audi or BMW diesel.
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  21. #20
    brasiliangringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportstractor View Post
    LPG sounds good but I cannot see them holding their value like a Audi or BMW diesel.
    I don't agree. Whilst the UK is well behind the curve in terms of LPG usage and awareness, the increasing petrol cost has brought it to fore in recent years and this won't reverse demand any time soon. Installation prices have also come way down as a result of the increased volume. You would find it easier selling an LPG converted car (than not converted) and would also command a higher premium, not mentioning the cost saving during operation and importantly, you get the full blooded 'sports spec' that you often wont get in a diesel car unless you get an sline diesel etc but these sell like hot cakes so you pay your dollar . In 10 years when people have embraced it far more widely, remember where you 1st heard some bearded wonder giving his prediction
    Last edited by brasiliangringo; 29th February 2012 at 09:51.

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    Im not fussed about paying the price to run the r32, just fancied something different. I thought as it been a diesel it would work out cheaper in the long run, but i dont really do that many miles, so would i be better of sticking with petrol? i may look into the 2.0t a3 or just go for s3 instead

  23. #22
    brasiliangringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milli View Post
    Im not fussed about paying the price to run the r32, just fancied something different. I thought as it been a diesel it would work out cheaper in the long run, but i dont really do that many miles, so would i be better of sticking with petrol? i may look into the 2.0t a3 or just go for s3 instead
    Your initial post suggested it was all down to expensive running costs. Anyway just do a simple calculation then..

    Petrol car with 7k / year @ 25 MPG cost £1688 @1.34 / Litre
    Diesel car with 7k / year @ 40 MPG cost £1071 @1.36 / Litre
    LPG car with 7K / year @ 25 MPG cost £982 @ .78p / Litre

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by brasiliangringo View Post
    Your initial post suggested it was all down to expensive running costs. Anyway just do a simple calculation then..

    Petrol car with 7k / year @ 25 MPG cost £1688 @1.34 / Litre
    Diesel car with 7k / year @ 40 MPG cost £1071 @1.36 / Litre
    LPG car with 7K / year @ 25 MPG cost £982 @ .78p / Litre
    thats intresting figures and definately food for thought,

    but maybe slightly different when looking at motorway/Aroad driving, and make the mileage to an average quantity

    Petrol car with 12k / year @ 35 MPG cost £2067 @1.34 / Litre
    Diesel car with 12k / year @ 55 MPG cost £1335 @1.36 / Litre
    LPG car with 12K / year @ 35 MPG cost £1203 @ .78p / Litre

    then consider the cost of the conversion. Im not sure on the newer 2.0ts, but i can tell you that my 1.8t seriously stuggles to achieve 35 mpg on a long run, but iv driven a fair few 2.0 diesels that achieve 55mpg with ease, my old 1.9 golf gttdi used to get me into the 60mpg's without too much messing about. The MPGs i have stated, in my mind, are reasonable for both petrol and diesel cars with reasonable performance, granted the diesel will be slower, but were looking for economy and something has to be sacrificed.

    so according to that, it would give you a saving of £61 a month between the petrol and diesel... which is a fair bit. There is a saving again with LPG, but then you have to factor in the conversion which would take 10 years before profit no? and no mattter what anyone says, i cannot see an LPG converted car holding value like a diesel.
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  25. #24
    brasiliangringo's Avatar
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    Petrol car with 12k / year @ 35 MPG cost £2067 @1.34 / Litre
    Diesel car with 12k / year @ 55 MPG cost £1335 @1.36 / Litre
    LPG car with 12K / year @ 35 MPG cost £1203 @ .78p / Litre

    LPG conversion on a 4 cylinder is £1200 for a good one, so using your above figs woud see break even after about 1 year 3 months, there after you are saving. So after 2 years you have saved 600 quid in fuel, 3 years about £1400, 4 years around £2300..

  26. #25
    Chugger

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    Yes if comparing to petrol, I was comparing lpg to diesel
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

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    razza1's Avatar
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    I get 30-35 on longer runs. Factor in the higher price of the diesel car in the first place, and the difference isn't as much per year.
    If you don't do many miles go petrol, if you do more than diesel. Its also personal preference as to what you prefer to drive, the sound, time between gear changes etc. Try both and see what you prefer. Never driven lpg so couldn't comment.
    07 2.0T SLine SE V2 Quattro, Full Milltek with hi-flow sports cat, APR Stage 2+ 280BHP/325lb/ft, APR HPFP, K&N panel, S4 alloys, Spacers, Black Optics, Eibachs, RS4 grill and fogs, Fog tints, RS4 ARB, RS4 Gearstick, LCR splitter, Black Calipers, Drilled discs, Debadged, Colour DIS, Bose, Adaptive Xenons/DRL, Black/Silver Audi Exclusive leather, Audi Carbon inlays, carbon difuser/B pillars, RNS-E+/Bluetooth, Cruise, Int/ext light packs, Rain/light sensors, mudflaps, LED plate/side/boot/interior

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    I would like to look into getting my 8l S3 LPG converted as after dropping silly money on fixing the car over the last year it's not worth selling it to get something more economical so after reading this LPG looks like a good compromise.

    Anyone got any recommendations for experienced LPG installers near London?

  29. #28
    brasiliangringo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sportstractor View Post
    Yes if comparing to petrol, I was comparing lpg to diesel
    Fair enough but your 55 mpg is a tad optimistic for a performance diesel imo. I drive from time to time a 130 PD 02' A3 tdi (whilst not high performance is surprisingly pokey - quicker than a friends 150bhp z4 at a 20mph rolling start - what a drag race lol ) and it probably returns a combined of around 42 mpg with normal driving at the speed limits, with hardly any urban driving. The copper who pulled me on the A303 in a new unmarked 330D (it was at night to so i had no chance) was getting about 32mpg when i asked, but he travels at ''120mph on callouts'' so obviously a bit of an extreme comparison if hes tearing around at those speeds.. Point is, i dont know many people who get close to those amazing diesel mpg figures they quote in the press, and one of them drives a c5 (or the smallest citreon) that is supposed to do 60+ or something akin to driving to the moon and back on one tank..

  30. #29
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    My brother has an auto 530d and returns over 43mpg on a long journey. 55 mpg shouldn't be too far out from a 1.9/2.0 non Quattro tdi on the motorway
    57 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback (140)

  31. #30
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    The BMW diesel is a different beast altogether though.

    My Audi 2.0 TDI (143) Non-quattro cvt only got 35 mpg on the motorway from Scotland to S****horpe. Audi 2.0 TDI's are really quite useless.
    Looking for the right A4 Quattro. 1.9 TDI / 1.8T or 2.0T...
    My A4:http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b8-chassis/125399-my-brief.html



  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by xs2man View Post
    Depends on the age of the motor too. The new 2.0T (211BHP circa 2009 on) engines quote combined consumption at around 40 mpg, whereas my 2.0 TDI (143 BHP, 2009) I actually average only 40 mpg, but then it is the multitronic.

    I'm sure the 2.0T doesn't really get 40 mpg, but it will not be far off if driven sensibly. But then petrol is 8p cheaper per litre where I am, and the cost of the petrol car will be cheaper in the first place (more than likely), so overall it would probably be cheaper for me to go Petrol.

    If your looking around 2003-2008 motors though, you are probably cheaper with diesel.
    Depends on your milage, but I get 37 - 38mpg on a long run with my style of driving, but being 'more careful' I have got between 40 -42mpg. Around the town, again depending on your driving between 31 and 35mpg.

    I've driven plenty of 140 and 170bhp diesels (cars of different shapes and sizes) over the past couple of years and I am not fussed, but if you were going to be converted, the 140 bhp is suffice.

    My father converted to diesel and a few years ago and vowed never to go back. Last year for a bit of fun bought a 2.0T Eos and said it drove a lot smoother than the diesel, but was thirsty compared to it. (obviously and it was the original 2.0T fsi engine which isn't as efficient as the latest engine) He has had a lot of problems with the Eos, so part ex-ed it yesterday for a brand new 1.8T A3. He test drove the diesel beforehand and said he wouldn't go back to it!

    Due to the family demand for more space, I will most probably upgrade to the A6 Avant eventually. I had a 2.0TDI for the week which was boring, but due to the size of the car I don't think I could justify going for a petrol engine...so it'll have to be the 3.0TDI!!!
    Last edited by Crazyfool; 2nd March 2012 at 20:51.
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  33. #32
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    stick with petrol

  34. #33
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Folk rave about 55-60mpg from their diesels, but i simply cant see it unless your sat at 55mph on a motorway for the entire tank.

    My mate recently baught a Bora 1.9TDI PD130 expecting these fabled 50mpg+ figures from it, and finds it'll only do about 45mpg on a long motorway run at 75-80ish.

    My 1.8T Quattro will do ~30 on a 75ish motorway run, and 24 around town, short journeys etc.

    As a car to drive and enjoy however, rather than just some transport to get you from a to b, petrol is head and shoulders above diesel.

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