New labour.
- Thread starter TDI-line
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
Any thoughts, good and bad, for another term. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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Well I would rather have then than the Torries. If they get back into power I will be leaving the UK.
Any thoughts, good and bad, for another term. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Well I would rather have then than the Torries. If they get back into power I will be leaving the UK.
was expected. and i'm pretty happy with the reduced majority which will mean policies have to be debated and lib-dems and tories have to be convinced of an idea rather than just being pushed through . that can only be a good thing.
also good because its a step closer to tri-party politics.
One issue i dont think will get through now is ID cards. anybody who works in IT and reads computing or computer weekly knows how bad the govt has handled NHS IT so a national ID card system would be worse and an even bigger black hole for money.
but something really needs to be done about our voting system
1) less than 25% of all potential voters voted labour
2) 2/3's of those who voted, voted for parties other than labour.
also good because its a step closer to tri-party politics.
One issue i dont think will get through now is ID cards. anybody who works in IT and reads computing or computer weekly knows how bad the govt has handled NHS IT so a national ID card system would be worse and an even bigger black hole for money.
but something really needs to be done about our voting system
1) less than 25% of all potential voters voted labour
2) 2/3's of those who voted, voted for parties other than labour.
Back on topic.... 
Yes Shame tories didnt get in but as Ian said "was kind of expected" and there will be more debates (dont even say it TDi) for new policies.
Yes Shame tories didnt get in but as Ian said "was kind of expected" and there will be more debates (dont even say it TDi) for new policies.
I agree with Ian about the majority. A weak opposition does not make for good government, regardless of which party is is power. A government with too big a majority becomes complacent, because it is never really put on its mettle.
The least effective of the four Tory governments between 1979 and 1997 was the second one, between 1983 & 1987, when Labour's "suicide note" manifesto meant the Conservative majority was around 120.
People should well to remember that historically even a 66 seat majority is still large in absolute terms. It only seems low compared with the 160+ that Labour have enjoyed in its first two terms. But they, like the 1983 Conservative majority, were extraordinary, almost freak, results.
This new Labour administration will have be a lot more thorough, and hard-working in future, which can only lead to a better standard of government.
The least effective of the four Tory governments between 1979 and 1997 was the second one, between 1983 & 1987, when Labour's "suicide note" manifesto meant the Conservative majority was around 120.
People should well to remember that historically even a 66 seat majority is still large in absolute terms. It only seems low compared with the 160+ that Labour have enjoyed in its first two terms. But they, like the 1983 Conservative majority, were extraordinary, almost freak, results.
This new Labour administration will have be a lot more thorough, and hard-working in future, which can only lead to a better standard of government.
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
Great, just what we needed, another 4yrs of TAX increases, another 4yrs of uncontrolled immigration, another 4yrs of decline within the NHS, another 4yrs to decrease the amount of Police on the streets, another 4yrs of Military Personnel cutbacks, another 4yrs of hidden Tax hikes, another 4yrs of waiting to be Taxed on Tax, fuel @ £1 a litre which is 80% Tax, AND.........................
ANOTHER F**KING 4YRS OF TONY BLAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT, NEW LABOUR!!
JUST WHAT WE ALL NEEDED!!!!
Deano.
ANOTHER F**KING 4YRS OF TONY BLAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT, NEW LABOUR!!
JUST WHAT WE ALL NEEDED!!!!
Deano.
Danielson
Registered User
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
AndyMac
Retired from service
How very short everyones memories seem to be
Don't forget who f*cked the NHS in the first place!
And also who scrapped the tax banding above 40%. Are you happy paying the same rate of tax as the Duke of Westminster or Madonna?
Don't forget who f*cked the NHS in the first place!
And also who scrapped the tax banding above 40%. Are you happy paying the same rate of tax as the Duke of Westminster or Madonna?
But didn't President Blair PROMISE 8yrs+ to get the NHS and this country on its feet again? Yes, and No he didn't succeed in doing so!! You can go in Hospital now with something minor and you'll be lucky to come out without catching MRSA!!. The staff are under-staffed in there, there's not even enough beds, Pensioners are told to go home cos "we can't do your operation cos we don't have enough staff" for the sixth time or so!!
The Police are banging their heads against the walls cos they're not allowed to do their jobs dur to constant paper-work!!! My Constabulary (Somerset) won't be recruiting for at another 2yrs due to lack of Government funds!!
In answering your Question on paying Tax the same as Madonna etc, i feel like i am percentage wise, Income Tax,VAT,Council Tax (£1600+ for nothing), TAX TAX TAX TAX AND MORE TAX!!!!! I, like millions of other decent hard working people in this country are working to pay TAX!!!
The more successful you are in this country the more Tax you have to pay under this Labour Government!! Let's Penalise the hard workers to help the LAZY B*ST4rds/illegal immigrants (notice i said ILLEGAL) have a better financial status!!! What's all that about??? As far as i'm concerned ,if you can't be 4rsed to work ,you should'nt be entitled to ANY BENEFITS!!!!!
P.S I'll now get back off my box again!!
The Police are banging their heads against the walls cos they're not allowed to do their jobs dur to constant paper-work!!! My Constabulary (Somerset) won't be recruiting for at another 2yrs due to lack of Government funds!!
In answering your Question on paying Tax the same as Madonna etc, i feel like i am percentage wise, Income Tax,VAT,Council Tax (£1600+ for nothing), TAX TAX TAX TAX AND MORE TAX!!!!! I, like millions of other decent hard working people in this country are working to pay TAX!!!
The more successful you are in this country the more Tax you have to pay under this Labour Government!! Let's Penalise the hard workers to help the LAZY B*ST4rds/illegal immigrants (notice i said ILLEGAL) have a better financial status!!! What's all that about??? As far as i'm concerned ,if you can't be 4rsed to work ,you should'nt be entitled to ANY BENEFITS!!!!!
P.S I'll now get back off my box again!!
AndyMac
Retired from service
You should be very happy then that we now have the lowest unemployment since pre-Thatcher.
Where do you think the lack of funding has arisen for all the things you listed?
Umm lets think about that. Maybe by reducing the tax from 70%+ to 40% for the wealthiest people in Europe might have hit the IR coffers somewhat, bearing in mind that 95% of the wealth in this country is earned by 5% of the population.
Now IIRC I think that it was Maggie again who instigated that little beauty.
Don't quite understand the bit about Tax:
"Income Tax,VAT,Council Tax (£1600+ for nothing), TAX TAX TAX TAX AND MORE TAX!!!!!"
Income Tax? didn't realise Blair introduced this concept
VAT? hasn't changed for 30 years
Council Tax (Poll tax as was) introduced by? Maggie again
So your point is?
Maybe you're not old enough to have been a tax payer under Thatcher, that can be the only possible explanation for such an ill informed rant.
"I pay too much tax and it's all because of immigrants and the unemployed", I think it's a little more complicated than that, but good to see you've grasped most of Labours manifesto.
There are a lot of things I don't like about the current gov't but you have to remember they inherited a country on its knees and you can't turn that around in 2 terms.
Where do you think the lack of funding has arisen for all the things you listed?
Umm lets think about that. Maybe by reducing the tax from 70%+ to 40% for the wealthiest people in Europe might have hit the IR coffers somewhat, bearing in mind that 95% of the wealth in this country is earned by 5% of the population.
Now IIRC I think that it was Maggie again who instigated that little beauty.
Don't quite understand the bit about Tax:
"Income Tax,VAT,Council Tax (£1600+ for nothing), TAX TAX TAX TAX AND MORE TAX!!!!!"
Income Tax? didn't realise Blair introduced this concept
VAT? hasn't changed for 30 years
Council Tax (Poll tax as was) introduced by? Maggie again
So your point is?
Maybe you're not old enough to have been a tax payer under Thatcher, that can be the only possible explanation for such an ill informed rant.
"I pay too much tax and it's all because of immigrants and the unemployed", I think it's a little more complicated than that, but good to see you've grasped most of Labours manifesto.
There are a lot of things I don't like about the current gov't but you have to remember they inherited a country on its knees and you can't turn that around in 2 terms.
NEiLS3LK51
Registered User
Awwwww Gawd!!! Not more Baby Talk!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif .......errr.... Ooooops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif didn't realise this was a political debate, thought CJ and his fellow Cigar smokers were debating the merits of nappy changing and how not to get the contents on you when doing so....again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
AndyMac
Retired from service
[ QUOTE ]
How many terms will it take??
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Longer than it took the Tories to destroy it I would imagine
How many terms will it take??
[/ QUOTE ]
Longer than it took the Tories to destroy it I would imagine
[ QUOTE ]
Awwwww Gawd!!! Not more Baby Talk!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif .......errr.... Ooooops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif didn't realise this was a political debate, thought CJ and his fellow Cigar smokers were debating the merits of nappy changing and how not to get the contents on you when doing so....again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Nappy changes and politics...all same mix in the light of things really mate!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Awwwww Gawd!!! Not more Baby Talk!!!!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif .......errr.... Ooooops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif didn't realise this was a political debate, thought CJ and his fellow Cigar smokers were debating the merits of nappy changing and how not to get the contents on you when doing so....again! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Nappy changes and politics...all same mix in the light of things really mate!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
What are you saying here CJ that...
1/ All Politicians are babies and "spit their dummies" big time ....... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
OR
2/ All Politicians are just that!.............DUMMIES!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile_smoking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
1/ All Politicians are babies and "spit their dummies" big time ....... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
OR
2/ All Politicians are just that!.............DUMMIES!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/fuck_you.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile_smoking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Some crap.
[/ QUOTE ]
NIce try mate..... but those of us around then know you are talking out of your proverbial backside!
Some crap.
[/ QUOTE ]
NIce try mate..... but those of us around then know you are talking out of your proverbial backside!
AndyMac you would do well to remember that indirect taxation takes proportionally more from those who earn the least, and that new labour are responsible for the biggest increases in indirect taxation in this country's modern history. Poorer families spend the biggest proportions of their incomes, rather than save, invest or buy property.
You would also do well to remember that we have ridden the crest of a global economic boom. Yes Japan has struggled for the last 5 years, but by and large the West has enjoyed low inflation and steady growth.
Before you laud Blair's decision to leave interest rate decisions to the B of E, you would also do well to appreciate that no monetarist Govt would have done any different - who would raise rates when there was no inflation. So don't credit Labour for your low interest rates and cheap mortgage.
If you are concerned for the welfare of 1st time buyers, perhaps you are happy about the recently introduced policy of accepting 2nd properties as part of personal pensions. There are enough houses in this country, but too many of them are owned by people wealthy enough to buy a few more, driving prices out of the reach of the ordinary working class. Now labour are rewarding the rich buy letting them have their gains tax free.
Yes Conservatives under Thatcher did a lot wrong, but at least they did not pretend to be the Party for the Poor. It is the sheer hypocrisy of Blair's policies, not to mention his arrogance and spinning of the truth, that makes me feel sick to the teeth.
Now that he has made his mark in history with a 3rd term, you can be sure that once the inevitable global slowdown reaches these shores, and cheap chinese imports are no longer able to disguise a fundamentally weak economy, Blair will hand the reins over to someone else and escape any personal blame.
In the meantime, we will continue to pay through the teeth for services that show no improvement. Until we learn to sack politicians that don't keep their promises we will never get anything better.
You would also do well to remember that we have ridden the crest of a global economic boom. Yes Japan has struggled for the last 5 years, but by and large the West has enjoyed low inflation and steady growth.
Before you laud Blair's decision to leave interest rate decisions to the B of E, you would also do well to appreciate that no monetarist Govt would have done any different - who would raise rates when there was no inflation. So don't credit Labour for your low interest rates and cheap mortgage.
If you are concerned for the welfare of 1st time buyers, perhaps you are happy about the recently introduced policy of accepting 2nd properties as part of personal pensions. There are enough houses in this country, but too many of them are owned by people wealthy enough to buy a few more, driving prices out of the reach of the ordinary working class. Now labour are rewarding the rich buy letting them have their gains tax free.
Yes Conservatives under Thatcher did a lot wrong, but at least they did not pretend to be the Party for the Poor. It is the sheer hypocrisy of Blair's policies, not to mention his arrogance and spinning of the truth, that makes me feel sick to the teeth.
Now that he has made his mark in history with a 3rd term, you can be sure that once the inevitable global slowdown reaches these shores, and cheap chinese imports are no longer able to disguise a fundamentally weak economy, Blair will hand the reins over to someone else and escape any personal blame.
In the meantime, we will continue to pay through the teeth for services that show no improvement. Until we learn to sack politicians that don't keep their promises we will never get anything better.
[ QUOTE ]
AndyMac you would do well to remember that indirect taxation takes proportionally more from those who earn the least, and that new labour are responsible for the biggest increases in indirect taxation in this country's modern history. Poorer families spend the biggest proportions of their incomes, rather than save, invest or buy property.
You would also do well to remember that we have ridden the crest of a global economic boom. Yes Japan has struggled for the last 5 years, but by and large the West has enjoyed low inflation and steady growth.
Before you laud Blair's decision to leave interest rate decisions to the B of E, you would also do well to appreciate that no monetarist Govt would have done any different - who would raise rates when there was no inflation. So don't credit Labour for your low interest rates and cheap mortgage.
If you are concerned for the welfare of 1st time buyers, perhaps you are happy about the recently introduced policy of accepting 2nd properties as part of personal pensions. There are enough houses in this country, but too many of them are owned by people wealthy enough to buy a few more, driving prices out of the reach of the ordinary working class. Now labour are rewarding the rich buy letting them have their gains tax free.
Yes Conservatives under Thatcher did a lot wrong, but at least they did not pretend to be the Party for the Poor. It is the sheer hypocrisy of Blair's policies, not to mention his arrogance and spinning of the truth, that makes me feel sick to the teeth.
Now that he has made his mark in history with a 3rd term, you can be sure that once the inevitable global slowdown reaches these shores, and cheap chinese imports are no longer able to disguise a fundamentally weak economy, Blair will hand the reins over to someone else and escape any personal blame.
In the meantime, we will continue to pay through the teeth for services that show no improvement. Until we learn to sack politicians that don't keep their promises we will never get anything better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't agree more, and well put /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
AndyMac you would do well to remember that indirect taxation takes proportionally more from those who earn the least, and that new labour are responsible for the biggest increases in indirect taxation in this country's modern history. Poorer families spend the biggest proportions of their incomes, rather than save, invest or buy property.
You would also do well to remember that we have ridden the crest of a global economic boom. Yes Japan has struggled for the last 5 years, but by and large the West has enjoyed low inflation and steady growth.
Before you laud Blair's decision to leave interest rate decisions to the B of E, you would also do well to appreciate that no monetarist Govt would have done any different - who would raise rates when there was no inflation. So don't credit Labour for your low interest rates and cheap mortgage.
If you are concerned for the welfare of 1st time buyers, perhaps you are happy about the recently introduced policy of accepting 2nd properties as part of personal pensions. There are enough houses in this country, but too many of them are owned by people wealthy enough to buy a few more, driving prices out of the reach of the ordinary working class. Now labour are rewarding the rich buy letting them have their gains tax free.
Yes Conservatives under Thatcher did a lot wrong, but at least they did not pretend to be the Party for the Poor. It is the sheer hypocrisy of Blair's policies, not to mention his arrogance and spinning of the truth, that makes me feel sick to the teeth.
Now that he has made his mark in history with a 3rd term, you can be sure that once the inevitable global slowdown reaches these shores, and cheap chinese imports are no longer able to disguise a fundamentally weak economy, Blair will hand the reins over to someone else and escape any personal blame.
In the meantime, we will continue to pay through the teeth for services that show no improvement. Until we learn to sack politicians that don't keep their promises we will never get anything better.
[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't agree more, and well put /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ok.gif
AndyMac
Retired from service
Never mentioned mortgages, interest rates or second properties so wind yer neck in.
If you bothered to read my posts, rather than scanning through them picking out the words you understand, you'd see I was just stating facts that were wrongly portrayed by Deano.
I'm not crazy about any political party, but to whine on about Labour purely from a selfish taxation standpoint, which wasn't even valid, was a waste of a rant.
Labour as a party for the poor? Not for 30 years, get real.
So the only issue that p*sses you off about Blair is the hypocrisy & spin?
What planet are you on? It's part of the job isn't it, he's a politician.
How hypocritical is it for Howard to have an ad campaign decrying the state of the NHS when it was his party that pulled the plug on it 20 years ago?
Better the devil we know I'm afraid.
If you bothered to read my posts, rather than scanning through them picking out the words you understand, you'd see I was just stating facts that were wrongly portrayed by Deano.
I'm not crazy about any political party, but to whine on about Labour purely from a selfish taxation standpoint, which wasn't even valid, was a waste of a rant.
Labour as a party for the poor? Not for 30 years, get real.
So the only issue that p*sses you off about Blair is the hypocrisy & spin?
What planet are you on? It's part of the job isn't it, he's a politician.
How hypocritical is it for Howard to have an ad campaign decrying the state of the NHS when it was his party that pulled the plug on it 20 years ago?
Better the devil we know I'm afraid.
[ QUOTE ]
Never mentioned mortgages, interest rates or second properties so wind yer neck in.
If you bothered to read my posts, rather than scanning through them picking out the words you understand, you'd see I was just stating facts that were wrongly portrayed by Deano.
I'm not crazy about any political party, but to whine on about Labour purely from a selfish taxation standpoint, which wasn't even valid, was a waste of a rant.
Labour as a party for the poor? Not for 30 years, get real.
So the only issue that p*sses you off about Blair is the hypocrisy & spin?
What planet are you on? It's part of the job isn't it, he's a politician.
How hypocritical is it for Howard to have an ad campaign decrying the state of the NHS when it was his party that pulled the plug on it 20 years ago?
Better the devil we know I'm afraid.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did read your post Andy, and I think I understood it all. We obviously disagree on a few things, but I understand your reluctance to vote for Howard. However, I still believe that until we sack ineffective governments, regardless of who we replace them with, we will always end up with lying b4astrds in power. And unless you think New Labour have been effective for the last 8 years, maybe you should consider doing the unthinkable next time 'round.
Never mentioned mortgages, interest rates or second properties so wind yer neck in.
If you bothered to read my posts, rather than scanning through them picking out the words you understand, you'd see I was just stating facts that were wrongly portrayed by Deano.
I'm not crazy about any political party, but to whine on about Labour purely from a selfish taxation standpoint, which wasn't even valid, was a waste of a rant.
Labour as a party for the poor? Not for 30 years, get real.
So the only issue that p*sses you off about Blair is the hypocrisy & spin?
What planet are you on? It's part of the job isn't it, he's a politician.
How hypocritical is it for Howard to have an ad campaign decrying the state of the NHS when it was his party that pulled the plug on it 20 years ago?
Better the devil we know I'm afraid.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did read your post Andy, and I think I understood it all. We obviously disagree on a few things, but I understand your reluctance to vote for Howard. However, I still believe that until we sack ineffective governments, regardless of who we replace them with, we will always end up with lying b4astrds in power. And unless you think New Labour have been effective for the last 8 years, maybe you should consider doing the unthinkable next time 'round.
AndyMac
Retired from service
You're right about "unthinkable"!
And if we sacked ineffective governments we'd have a different party every term and thus every gov't would become increasingly ineffective as one term is not long enough to do anything. You'd then have knee jerk reaction measures from every party desperately trying to keep the voters happy short term, a bit like the situation we have with PLC's/shareholders. Nobody looking at the long term just the current share price.
And if we sacked ineffective governments we'd have a different party every term and thus every gov't would become increasingly ineffective as one term is not long enough to do anything. You'd then have knee jerk reaction measures from every party desperately trying to keep the voters happy short term, a bit like the situation we have with PLC's/shareholders. Nobody looking at the long term just the current share price.
[ QUOTE ]
Arh Balls I posted in the wrong Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
Um....I did wonder.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Arh Balls I posted in the wrong Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
Um....I did wonder.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Arh Balls I posted in the wrong Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jump.gif
Arh Balls I posted in the wrong Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jump.gif
TDI-line
Uber Post Whore
[ QUOTE ]
Arh Balls I posted in the wrong Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, that was just a blatant hijack again NSD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif
Arh Balls I posted in the wrong Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah, that was just a blatant hijack again NSD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_2.gif
