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  1. #1
    Dazmo's Avatar
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    HELP-NOTICE OF PROSECUTION!!

    The missis received a notice of prosecution today for going through a red light, time on red was 1.1 seconds.

    This was apparently on 22/12/2010.

    It was when there was severe snow and ice and as she has told me if she had braked she would have lost control of the car,possibly locking the wheels and resulting in an accident.

    The question now id what the hell do i do? do i have her contest this?


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  3. #2
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    The missus has had one.

    iirc its a `TS10`, 3 points and a fine.

    IMO if its contested then the Police/court will simply suggest ".. speed and anticipation should reflect the driving conditionas and make it possible to stop......blah blah...".
    Its a bummer but I reckon it will be a tough one to get out of.
    Good luck

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    I would ask to see the evidential photographs taken showing the distance travelled between two white lines painted on the road to make sure the camera recorded the speed correctly. Presumably as it was snowing, these lines are not visible?
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    Dazmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consilio View Post
    I would ask to see the evidential photographs taken showing the distance travelled between two white lines painted on the road to make sure the camera recorded the speed correctly. Presumably as it was snowing, these lines are not visible?
    It was a red traffic light offence and not a speeding offence, but there are white lines so im assuming they use these and your speed to judge your distance past the line!


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    consilio's Avatar
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    of course, not sure why I was waffling on about speed!?!.... I'm sure they have some sort of markers on the road used for something. might be worth googling
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmo View Post
    It was a red traffic light offence and not a speeding offence, but there are white lines so im assuming they use these and your speed to judge your distance past the line!
    I thought it was the 2 sets of buried sensors in the road that measured the fact that you'd transgressed beyond the stop bar line after the light goes red.

    The sensors are buried about one metre past the stop bar - you can see the sealant they put back in the road to cover the sensors.
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    i had this last year icy road
    i used the excuse if i braked i would have slid through anyway
    yeah 6 points 200 fine reason i should have expected them to change at any time and slowed down
    the extra 3 and higher fine are for wasteing there time when i could have just gone guilty
    time on red for me was 0.8
    so your time 1.1 plus amber b4 will see you with more that 3 points if you take it to court
    Last edited by voorhees; 30th December 2010 at 07:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    the extra 3 and higher fine are for wasteing there time when i could have just gone guilty
    twats

    nice to know that the appeals system is fair. threatening over 3 times the fine and double the points so that nobody dares appeal? i hate the law system in this country, and i hate pigs who spend more time catching otherwise innocent motorists than actual criminals (i.e. all of them). pigs are worse scum than those city council parking ticket w****** i think
    Last edited by voorhees; 30th December 2010 at 16:22.
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  10. #9
    tku
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    I went to court in 2008 to argue over one of these and lost and that was due to the book of the rule of law which states that technically even going through a Amber light never mind a red is an offence. Was also old by the prosecutor after the trial that these type of cases are very very tough to win and 99% of the time the judge will side with the state..anyways know this isn't positive news but I would jut take it on the chin and not bother contesting.

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    tku
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    Unless she moved out of the way for emergency services.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    twats

    nice to know that the appeals system is fair. threatening over 3 times the fine and double the points so that nobody dares appeal? i hate the law system in this country, and i hate pigs who spend more time catching otherwise innocent motorists than actual criminals (i.e. all of them). pigs are worse scum than those city council parking ticket ****ers i think
    I don't think the threat of double points if you appeal and fail is to stop people appealing fullstop. Its used as a deterrent to stop people who know they have been caught bang to rights but still consider trying their luck to get off.

    Anyway, I would say not to bother appealing. As mentioned, the ice and snow would not have impacted on the chance she had to stop at the red light because she would've been driving slower when approaching the lights due to the bad conditions, therefore still having enough time to break without skidding.
    And if she really didn't have enough time to stop then she was going too fast in the said conditions.

    If I was the prosecuter and she used the ice as the reason she didn't stop at the red light then I would simply ask why the rest of the country haven't been ploughing through red lights too for the past couple of weeks.

    tbf, I reckon she just didn't notice the amber/red light until it was too late because she was busy concentrating on the icy road. Or she just tried to skip through it... as we've all done before.

    My advice is.... she should take the points for her bad judgement and be thankful that she didn't smash into something or someone after going through the red light.

  13. #12
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    Its maybe worth a browse on Pepipoo forum to see if this issue has had any coverage on there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    twats

    nice to know that the appeals system is fair. threatening over 3 times the fine and double the points so that nobody dares appeal? i hate the law system in this country, and i hate pigs who spend more time catching otherwise innocent motorists than actual criminals (i.e. all of them). pigs are worse scum than those city council parking ticket ****ers i think

    lol.And ignorance rears its ugly head....
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    mate, take the 3 points and pay the fine, simple as that or name another driver, but take note,,

    Should anyone wish to name any other person for driving the said car at the said time, make sure they are insured as 8 points and a 575 fine await you, that's what iv just been fcuked over with because some bird took one of my cars whilsh she stayed with us and went though a speed camera, I did not report the TWOK as i knew nothing of her use of the said car, by the time the photo was produced and i named her i was asked to produce insurance for the named driver, which i could not, so i got the hot poker stick right up the bum hole,

    i should have just taken the 3 points and the 60 fine,

    Learn from my mistake,

  16. #15
    tku
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    Damn Turkster...That must of sucked...Ok take the fine mate and lets stop this thread!
    Last edited by voorhees; 30th December 2010 at 07:45.

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    Ok well thanks for your advice guys and gals.

    The general feeling is to simply accept it as most people when its there first offence apparently get offered a choice, to take a course or take the points and fine.

    But not sure whether they still offer these courses.


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  18. #17
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    they dont offer a course for jumping red lights
    only speeding but only in parts of the UK

  19. #18
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    I had a TS10 a few years back, I was going to contest it on the grounds that I believed I travelled through an amber light not red, but in the end it's futile unless you have really good grounds for dispute.

    My advice is suck it up. A TS10 for what it's worth will not really effect your insurance premium as much as an SP offence will, so it's not so bad to be honest...unless you already have 9 points!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    twats

    nice to know that the appeals system is fair. threatening over 3 times the fine and double the points so that nobody dares appeal? i hate the law system in this country, and i hate pigs who spend more time catching otherwise innocent motorists than actual criminals (i.e. all of them). pigs are worse scum than those city council parking ticket ****ers i think
    Do you actually think thats true?
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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrojames View Post
    Do you actually think thats true?
    I definitely think that any appeals process should be fair. To prevent wasting court's time there should be a recourse if you appeal and you were blatantly in the wrong but 0.8 seconds? I certainly wouldn't risk the 6 points even if I was sure I was in the right, and that's my issue with it. They can effectively send you whatever ticket they want and you can do nothing about it.

    In regards to me hating the police, I've been pulled over on a few occasions for no reason. I wasn't speeding, and I'm generally a fastidious driver. I'm young, I'm Asian, and I drive an Audi. Therefore I'm a prime target for being pulled over for some reason.

    Recently I got my car keyed in a multi storey car park, and when I reported it (and that it was parked in plain sight of a CCTV camera) I was actually told that the police didn't have the time to review the footage... Erm, i'm sorry but that's THEIR JOB. at least parking attendants are doing their job, whether we hate them for it or not.

    Oh, but the kicker is that recent I got pulled over for havins slightly illegally spaced plates. I'm a doctor and my numberplate was DR X XXXX rather than the strictly legal DRXX XXX. Fine, i was breaking the law but they never found the guy who keyed my car. They found me fast enough tho? Last I checked my perfectly legible numberplate wasn't a threat to society

    I'd be glad to hear your rebuttal but perhaps PM me as it's not really within the remit of the original topic
    Last edited by sub39h; 30th December 2010 at 15:05.
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    "I definitely think that any appeals process should be fair"

    it is fair if you aint done it you will get NG
    it the camera shows you have done it your guilty
    seems fair to me and when they give you extra for going NG when you was Guilty is fair as you have just wasted there time

    also if you get nicked 3 times with the plate showing wrong they can and will recall it from you
    and then charge you to re register your car
    Last edited by bez101; 30th December 2010 at 15:19.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    I'd be glad to hear your rebuttal but perhaps PM me as it's not really within the remit of the original topic
    Where's the fun in that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    "I definitely think that any appeals process should be fair"

    it is fair if you aint done it you will get NG
    it the camera shows you have done it your guilty
    seems fair to me and when they give you extra for going NG when you was Guilty is fair as you have just wasted there time

    also if you get nicked 3 times with the plate showing wrong they can and will recall it from you
    and then charge you to re register your car
    I know re: the plate. I've changed it to the dealer issued ones.

    Yes I get that if you're not guilty you'll get nothing. My point is that with such a hefty increase I wouldn't challenge it even if I was relatively certain I wasn't in the wrong. (6 points is not inconsiderable - potentially being caught speeding one time afterwards could lose you your license.) that inherently defeats the point of an appeal at all, which is hardly the way things should be in a democratic western society.
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    In regards to me hating the police, I've been pulled over on a few occasions for no reason. I wasn't speeding, and I'm generally a fastidious driver. I'm young, I'm Asian, and I drive an Audi. Therefore I'm a prime target for being pulled over for some reason.
    I'm young(ish), black (mostly), a bit white and a bit asian (chinese).... and in between getting followed around shops by security guards I too used to get pulled over by cops ALL of the time.

    Do I hate the police? Nope.
    Do I hate the fact that how I look always seemed to automatically make them view me as suspicious or believe I was up to no good? Yes.

    Don't hate the police, we need them. Even the bad ones, in a way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aythreee View Post
    Do I hate the police? Nope.
    Do I hate the fact that how I look always seemed to automatically make them view me as suspicious or believe I was up to no good? Yes.

    Don't hate the police, we need them. Even the bad ones, in a way.
    I can't agree with that view. Institutionalised racism has been reported in the police and thay may not be true anymore and there may be a few bad apples spoiling it for everyone but as an analogy I wouldn't drink a pint of water if it had a drop of urine in it. (let's ignore the fact I got backsplash when I was catheterising someone a few nights ago tho - feel free to laugh lol)

    obviously we need police, but i think the way they wield their power is at times ridiculous. power should be given to those who can be trusted with it. those who cannot be trusted with it should be held accountable, but you cannot challenge the police, can you? the 6 points and 200 fine is, in a way, an example
    Last edited by sub39h; 30th December 2010 at 16:08.
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  27. #26
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    after my investigation, you can go to court and try your luck, BUT you are already convicted and the fined and points are already set 2 days before the hearing, basically your screwed before you get in the play-pit, Turn up for the hearing or not, they will screw you, its a money making machine for the co-operations,

    My insurance has increased by 30 per month for both my cars, The Audi and a 1.4 Pug 206!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sub39h View Post
    Yes I get that if you're not guilty you'll get nothing. My point is that with such a hefty increase I wouldn't challenge it even if I was relatively certain I wasn't in the wrong. (6 points is not inconsiderable - potentially being caught speeding one time afterwards could lose you your license.) that inherently defeats the point of an appeal at all, which is hardly the way things should be in a democratic western society.
    Perhaps your gripe is with the Crown Prosecution Service rather than the Police then? They do all the 'prosecuting' in England and Wales (unsure about Scotland...) not the Police, who's role is purely to gather and present the evidence.
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    I haven't been done for anything, so my gripe is with nobody. I just think it's stupid that you basically can't stand up for yourself.
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  30. #29
    colicabcadam
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    tell them your mate who lives in poland was driving it, seriously, i did once for speeding 3 years ago on my bike, all they can do after you tell them who was driving it is chase them, in poland LOL!!!

    here's a good name to use......... Jarslov Kowalewski

    i'm all for justice, but based on what you said, you didn't do anything wrong........ you just made a small mistake (braked late, driving a little too fast for the conditionss) you didn;t go through it!

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by colicabcadam View Post
    tell them your mate who lives in poland was driving it, seriously, i did once for speeding 3 years ago on my bike, all they can do after you tell them who was driving it is chase them, in poland LOL!!!

    here's a good name to use......... Jarslov Kowalewski

    i'm all for justice, but based on what you said, you didn't do anything wrong........ you just made a small mistake (braked late, driving a little too fast for the conditionss) you didn;t go through it!
    that might have worked 3 years ago
    but now they would check the name held insurance and yes they can
    then if he didnt the owner would be done for no insurance
    and the red light jump would still be held to the owner as there not gona find him anyway
    as with been the owner its your job to do there work for them IE provide a valid name addtess etc
    and then the name you provided has got to admit the offence if they found someone with that name they would say it wasnt them
    then it would bounce stright back to the owner

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    Just to steer someway back on topic, the camera's that monitor this stuff aren't anything to do with the police, it's the council and the safety partnerships. The issue I have with this technology is it's totally digital. There is no leeway for driving conditions, time of day, traffic etc. So you get a NIP for doing 36 on a dual carriageway at 3am on an empty road, but the HGV doing 35 on the same road at rush hour in pouring rain is deemed innocent of any offence.
    The technology cannot impact on the real driving criminals, unregistered/uninsured drivers, wreckless bikers (as most cameras are front facing), and drunk drivers. These are all the most dangerous tossers on the road and they are unaffected, while the totally legal driver edging slightly over the limit (10% + 2mph) faces a ban for totting up. Quite unbelievable!
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    This is hilarious! There is a right to appeal but not if you're guilty and regret your actions! Like most have said just accept it and be grateful that there wasn't an accident.

    As for the dangerous tossers on bikes I kind of disagree, I ride a bike fast - like I'm sure most poeple here drive their cars fast when they can. BUT most bikers don't ride dangerously, if you go through a red light on a bike and get hit it hurts a bit.

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    i also ride bikes and yes prety fast sometimes when the roads are clear

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    Quote Originally Posted by bez101 View Post
    i also ride bikes and yes prety fast sometimes when the roads are clear
    You dangerous tosser!! lol


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    Anyway got these this morning!!





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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazmo View Post
    Anyway got these this morning!!



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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Oooops!
    X2

  39. #38
    Ads
    Ads's Avatar
    License to drive

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    Jul 2009
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    And snow on her roof. Should give her an extra few points for that too.

  40. #39
    6th Gear

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    atleast the traffic wardens wont have been out with those snow covered pavements!

  41. #40
    a3_dan's Avatar
    3rd Gear

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    I just received my 3 points and 60quid fine for speeding today :-( Happy frigging new year!
    Audi TT - 2.0TFSI - Ibis White

 

 
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