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  1. #41
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    However fast the TT-RS may be, it's a front wheel drive overweight coupe based on a Mk5 Golf chassis.

    The Cayman S is a perfectly balanced mid-engined sports car, designed as..... a mid-engined sports car. It's not about 0-60 times, it's about how well it can maintain the speed around the twisties, and how much fun you can have doing that.
    Hmmm, but that simply isn't true now is it?
    TT-RS is not on the same chassis as a MK5 Golf or an 8P Audi.
    A significant proportion of the chassis and shell are made of aluminium, specifically in the front end in order to imporve weight distribution.. the battery is even moved to the boot to help this.
    Have you driven a Haldex Gen 4 car hard? The Gen 4 is a monumental leap up from the Gen 2 Haldex, in standard trim it behaves better than a Gen 2 with the haldex controller system set to 'Race'.
    The TT was designed to be an every day sporty coupe. I'll not try and imply it has the feel of a Porsche, it hasn't, and that's why a similarly specced Cayman S would cost you about 55-60k as a TT-RS specced to 50k.
    Have you driven a TT-RS though? Its more than capable in teh twisties, and capable of getting a little bit of cornering attitude, so it is fun.
    As for holding it's own in the twisty stuff:

    Evo lap times:
    Boxster S - 1:28.1 peak speed of 105.4
    TT-RS - 1:27.1 peak speed of 108.1


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  3. #42
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    Hmmm, but that simply isn't true now is it?
    TT-RS is not on the same chassis as a MK5 Golf or an 8P Audi.
    A significant proportion of the chassis and shell are made of aluminium, specifically in the front end in order to imporve weight distribution.. the battery is even moved to the boot to help this.
    Have you driven a Haldex Gen 4 car hard? The Gen 4 is a monumental leap up from the Gen 2 Haldex, in standard trim it behaves better than a Gen 2 with the haldex controller system set to 'Race'.
    The TT was designed to be an every day sporty coupe. I'll not try and imply it has the feel of a Porsche, it hasn't, and that's why a similarly specced Cayman S would cost you about 55-60k as a TT-RS specced to 50k.
    Have you driven a TT-RS though? Its more than capable in teh twisties, and capable of getting a little bit of cornering attitude, so it is fun.
    As for holding it's own in the twisty stuff:

    Evo lap times:
    Boxster S - 1:28.1 peak speed of 105.4
    TT-RS - 1:27.1 peak speed of 108.1
    A few bits of metal don't change the fact they've fundamentally taken a Mk5 Golf chassis and tweaked it, rather than built it from the ground up as a sports car.

    I wouldn't compare a Boxster/Cayman and a TT - they serve different purposes.

    The TT-RS is a fantastic car, but not how I would choose to spend 50K.
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  4. #43
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Vintage, PORSCHE vs Fast Audi thread.


    ASN Gold.
    classic.
    Now:
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  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    Evo lap times:
    Boxster S - 1:28.1 peak speed of 105.4
    TT-RS - 1:27.1 peak speed of 108.1
    You started by comparing the TT to a Cayman S and then posted Boxster S (and not just any boxster but the 4/5 year old model with 30bhp less) times?? Is that because the Cayman S is faster by any chance...*cough* (1:26.85)
    Last edited by beanoir; 8th July 2010 at 15:22.
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  6. #45
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    A few bits of metal don't change the fact they've fundamentally taken a Mk5 Golf chassis and tweaked it, rather than built it from the ground up as a sports car.

    I wouldn't compare a Boxster/Cayman and a TT - they serve different purposes.

    The TT-RS is a fantastic car, but not how I would choose to spend 50K.
    haha, ok, but lets not forget, a few bits of metal is all that seperates an Audi chassis and a Porsche chassis.
    I bet if me and a Boxster/Cayman owner were giving the same B-Road a good old blast we'd both have the same big smile at the end
    But anyway, you're right, buy a Porsche....













    ... and help keep my residuals high


  7. #46
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    haha, ok, but lets not forget, a few bits of metal is all that seperates an Audi chassis and a Porsche chassis.
    I bet if me and a Boxster/Cayman owner were giving the same B-Road a good old blast we'd both have the same big smile at the end
    But anyway, you're right, buy a Porsche....













    ... and help keep my residuals high
    Surely a TT with an extra cylinder and some chavvy wheels is less of a safe bet than a classy Porker?
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  8. #47
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    Surely a TT with an extra cylinder and some chavvy wheels is less of a safe bet than a classy Porker?
    Didnt realise TT-RSs came with Bentleys now?..........
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
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    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
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  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz m View Post
    The Porsche sites and race instructors actualy recomend getting track time tuition instead of engine tuning to get the best results from the Porsche package.
    +1.

    If anyone is deluded enough to think that a family hatchback is a suitable frame to build up into a sports vehicle capable of grin-inducing thrills in anything LIKE the same degree as something which was conceived with balance and power delivery in mind from the very first design sketches, they're incapable of seeing the truth.

    Yes, you can make an A3 into a fun car. -But "ye cannae change the laws o' physics, cap'n".

    At auto-cross, a stock Cayman will DESTROY even modded S3's given a competent driver.

    Like turbo delivery?-Get a Turbo S.

    Drop-tops as hairdresser-runarounds? -Here in Florida it's a shame to waste all that sunshine, and the wife loves to tootle around with the top down. Currently she's got a 3.5-Litre Benz, but we're pondering a couple of Boxster-S like options.

    The overwhelming majority of Porsche owners here -and very probably in the UK also- are posers who think that Porsche is a 'luxury' brand, and don't know anything about performance driving... -My wife included

    But then.... -have you looked at the typical Audi driver lately?



    The percentages aren't any better, really. -Bear in mind that this is an ENTHUSIAST forum. -Most owners don't come here, and care more about the badge on the rolling box in their cosy suburban driveway, and the impression that the badge makes on their neighbours.
    Last edited by VWAddict; 8th July 2010 at 19:04.

  10. #49
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    Surely a TT with an extra cylinder and some chavvy wheels is less of a safe bet than a classy Porker?
    Have you seen the residuals on the TT-S?
    If the TT-RS is anything like that I'm sitting pretty thanks.

    I love the Porsche debate - people think they can do no wrong with a porker.... if my mates 996 turbo (standard no mod's) is anything to go buy I won't be buying one unless I have seriously deep pockets.
    The irony is, everyone goes on about the sublime steering feel of a Porsche, but I bet only 10% of owners (probably less with the Cayman and Boxster) even have the skill to drive the car at a point when all that 'feel' actual means something


  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    Have you seen the residuals on the TT-S?
    If the TT-RS is anything like that I'm sitting pretty thanks.

    I love the Porsche debate - people think they can do no wrong with a porker.... if my mates 996 turbo (standard no mod's) is anything to go buy I won't be buying one unless I have seriously deep pockets.
    The irony is, everyone goes on about the sublime steering feel of a Porsche, but I bet only 10% of owners (probably less with the Cayman and Boxster) even have the skill to drive the car at a point when all that 'feel' actual means something
    Hmmm I disagree, anyone ,whether they are Lewis Hamilton or not can appreciate the extra accuracy and enjoyment gained from driving a car with sublime steering . Also being able to feel every rut in the road and the wheels slip slightly when cornering hard, and minor surface surface changes which may alter your grip and the way the car behaves.
    Anyone can appreciate that.
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  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by akash_sky1 View Post
    Hmmm I disagree, anyone ,whether they are Lewis Hamilton or not can appreciate the extra accuracy and enjoyment gained from driving a car with sublime steering . Also being able to feel every rut in the road and the wheels slip slightly when cornering hard, and minor surface surface changes which may alter your grip and the way the car behaves.
    Anyone can appreciate that.
    Really?

    Having driven a Cayman S, 966 Turbo, 997 Turbo, Carrera S and Carrera 4S in anger I feel I'm in a pretty luxurious position to comment.
    http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showpost.p...4&postcount=13
    And yes a Porsche of any variant offer significantly more in terms of 'feel' compared to the S3, but the TT? Not a whole lot more and certainly not something the average Joe would notice if they drove both back to back.
    In terms of slip etc your probably right, but only the best drivers would ever get that close.. so agin, your average Joe wouldn't be able to tell.
    I'm not trying to say the TT is a better car, or even as good as, but I think the Porsche gets a load of smoke blown up its chuff based on Journo's articles... harsh reality is, all modern Porsches may have feel, but they all have understeer dialed in to there set up (with the exception of the RS cars)... blame health and safety I guess... but it's true.


  13. #52
    gaz m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    I love the Porsche debate - people think they can do no wrong with a porker.... if my mates 996 turbo (standard no mod's) is anything to go buy I won't be buying one unless I have seriously deep pockets.
    The irony is, everyone goes on about the sublime steering feel of a Porsche, but I bet only 10% of owners (probably less with the Cayman and Boxster) even have the skill to drive the car at a point when all that 'feel' actual means something
    That could well be true Jamie
    However the lack of steering feel never stopped me or slowed me down in my S3 it just did not make me grin as much as I do at the moment. That also includes a few test drives in both the TTRS and the R8 which were similar fun to the Porsche but still lacking the same level of feed back.
    As I said I enjoyed my S3 and loved its power but its lack of feed back left me a bit dubious on a few occasions when entering a few corners way too fast, It always got me out of trouble but never gave me full confidence to actualy relax and trust that it would be consistant for the next time I did the same trick.

    I for one never bought my car for a badge to flaunt to my neighbours I bought it to for my own enjoyment which is why I said to David to buy one for his own driving pleasure!

    I think Audi's are very competent but just not outstanding is my point.

    Regards Gaz
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  14. #53
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz m View Post
    I for one never bought my car for a badge to flaunt to my neighbours I bought it to for my own enjoyment which is why I said to David to buy one for his own driving pleasure!

    I think Audi's are very competent but just not outstanding is my point.
    Sadly, I think 90% of Porsche buyers are just after the badge... glad you're not one of them

    I agree with you, a Porsche does just have the edge, it always will. My point is, only the keen will notice that extra level of interaction


  15. #54
    gaz m's Avatar
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    Ahh got your point now!

    Having chatted and met up with a few of the guys from this site I would expect a greater % of the forum guys would have the experiance from track days or perfomance driving to appriciate the feeling.

    That also includes a few of the Porsche forums but as you say some cars are bought for parking on the drive and washing on Sundays whilst winding up the neighbours he he.

    Good write up on the GT3 event by the way.

    Gaz
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  16. #55
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    Really?

    Having driven a Cayman S, 966 Turbo, 997 Turbo, Carrera S and Carrera 4S in anger I feel I'm in a pretty luxurious position to comment.
    http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showpost.p...4&postcount=13
    And yes a Porsche of any variant offer significantly more in terms of 'feel' compared to the S3, but the TT? Not a whole lot more and certainly not something the average Joe would notice if they drove both back to back.
    In terms of slip etc your probably right, but only the best drivers would ever get that close.. so agin, your average Joe wouldn't be able to tell.
    I'm not trying to say the TT is a better car, or even as good as, but I think the Porsche gets a load of smoke blown up its chuff based on Journo's articles... harsh reality is, all modern Porsches may have feel, but they all have understeer dialed in to there set up (with the exception of the RS cars)... blame health and safety I guess... but it's true.
    I drove a regular 2.5 Boxster. Not very quick, but the handling was fantastic. Having driven various VAG's since, none of them came close. I fdon't believe for a second that any TT can offer close to the degree of handling and feedback you get from even an entry level Boxster.
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  17. #56
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V6Pete View Post
    I drove a regular 2.5 Boxster. Not very quick, but the handling was fantastic. Having driven various VAG's since, none of them came close. I fdon't believe for a second that any TT can offer close to the degree of handling and feedback you get from even an entry level Boxster.
    Go do the Audi driver thing @ Silverstone then and comment when you've driven one

    Need I remind people of this:
    http://fwd.five.tv/fifth-gear/videos/other/audi-tt-rs

    LOL


  18. #57
    V6Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiekip View Post
    Go do the Audi driver thing @ Silverstone then and comment when you've driven one

    Need I remind people of this:
    http://fwd.five.tv/fifth-gear/videos/other/audi-tt-rs

    LOL
    You love yout TT, great! It looks fantastic. Good colour choice too. I'd just rather a Porker. It's not a criticism of yours.
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  19. #58
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Yeah I know, and I know a Porsche has more feel, but your comments about the TT not getting even close are not quite right.
    This isn't about me bigging up my car I'm just stating facts as I'm in a position to do so.
    I thought I was pretty balanced...

    The TT was my choice over the Cayman for several reasons:
    1. Tuning potential
    2. Price - you get way more for your money in the TT
    3. Practicality - i can get way more in the back without an engine in the way
    4. AWD - needs to be bale to get me to the alps and back every winter


  20. #59
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    All the while Im praising the Cayman/ Porsches driver feedback over Audi which is no doubt leagues ahead, but i'd still have the TT-RS for its engine and tuning potential.
    One of my ultimate dream cars however is the 997.2 GT3 RS- one of the best driver's cars ever made, and one of the best engine notes ever. I'd have that over a turbo anyday. I've not driven a turbo but have seen plenty at track days/ and the drag strip, the vacuum cleaner engine note and elastic band power delivery does/would do nothing for me.
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  21. #60
    Jamiekip's Avatar
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    Agree with you. GT3 RS are an amazing car


  22. #61
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    As a proper affordable daily driver sportscar, a used 996/997 is peerless IMO. Been thinking about one for a while as a 12 month ownership prospect and updrade the missus car as the family daily (mine presently serves that role)

    However as something really special in the 50-100K bracket then I wouldnt consider ANY 911, based on looks alone.

    Gallardo would my weapon of choice, or something Italian. Of course that assumes it would only see light weekend use and the occasional track day.

    cheers
    Paul
    Last edited by PaulAr; 9th July 2010 at 13:26.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  23. #62
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    Let's face it...the Boxster is a great car and handles superb! However, the description as a "hairdresser's" car and a poor man's porsche will never go away.I prefer the 911 but to each his own. I will say that this white version is screaming POSER, though. Good luck with your purchase but after driving it for a year, you will wish it was a 911

  24. #63
    tku
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcardio View Post
    Let's face it...the Boxster is a great car and handles superb! However, the description as a "hairdresser's" car and a poor man's porsche will never go away.I prefer the 911 but to each his own. I will say that this white version is screaming POSER, though. Good luck with your purchase but after driving it for a year, you will wish it was a 911
    I agree! I find it pretty pointless to be honest. I have no idea why anyone would buy this over any other Porsche ie. cayman 911 etc...And if I can just comment above regarding the audi ttrs porsche thing..I would have a Porsche any other day excluding a boxster, lets face it..as good as it might be to drive..I would never feel like I owned a proper porsche..I just find that as a car a proper porsche is on a another level. No doubt that AUDI RS' are fast though! But it's not all about that...and this is coming from an Audi enthusiast....Oh and GT3 RS w/ akrapovic exhaust

  25. #64
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    google Sharkwerks GT3RS 3.9 L conversion tuned NA motor over 500 bhp beautiful car.
    fcuk it ill just post the link...good 9mins of watching
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzeLcvgOVzQ
    Last edited by akash_sky1; 11th July 2010 at 16:26.
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  26. #65
    SAiLO's Avatar
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    I woulnd't mind having one.
    VCDS USER

  27. #66
    N8
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    Saw a used TT-RS last nite, Suzuka Grey cabby, buckets, nav, bose the lot - 39k - ALOT of car for the money.

  28. #67
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tku View Post
    I agree! I find it pretty pointless to be honest. I have no idea why anyone would buy this over any other Porsche ie. cayman 911 etc...:
    Budget constraints.
    Many people cant/wont stump up for a 911, and a new Boxster is much cheaper than a new 911.

    cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  29. #68
    beanoir's Avatar
    Sharpest Tongue in the West

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Budget constraints.
    Many people cant/wont stump up for a 911, and a new Boxster is much cheaper than a new 911.

    cheers
    Paul
    I could come with a whole heap of reasons why you'd buy a Boxster and not a Carrera....and I could come up with a whole heap of reasons vice versa too.

    What sort of a numpty statement was that anyway? It's like saying I have no idea why anybody would buy a Ford instead of a Ferrari.

    Porsche Cayman S |Jeep Grand Cherokee|1988 Ford Fiesta XR2

    www.essexdriversclub.com

  30. #69
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Does that mean my S3 will become Gay when the RS3 comes out?
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  31. #70
    beanoir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Does that mean my S3 will become Gay when the RS3 comes out?
    According to some people Paul, that is clearly the case. If I rolled my eyes anymore at some of the coments on this thread I'd probably go blind.
    Porsche Cayman S |Jeep Grand Cherokee|1988 Ford Fiesta XR2

    www.essexdriversclub.com

  32. #71
    tku
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Does that mean my S3 will become Gay when the RS3 comes out?
    I'm sorry but a boxster does actually look gay. There I said it. Haha.

  33. #72
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tku View Post
    I'm sorry but a boxster does actually look gay. There I said it. Haha.



    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  34. #73
    Kris's Avatar
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    In the past I have totally dismissed Boxters until I had a new one for three days while the 911 was in for repairs. I would now say the Boxter S is a VERY capable car and definatley gives the grin factor even comparing to a 911.
    RS Focus MP 350
    Porsche 997 Carrera
    S3 Sprint blue
    A3 SLine170TDI

  35. #74
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    Saw one of these Spyders today, in black.
    Looked the ********.

    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  36. #75
    beanoir's Avatar
    Sharpest Tongue in the West

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    Saw one of these Spyders today, in black.
    Looked the ********.

    Paul
    Roof up or down?
    Porsche Cayman S |Jeep Grand Cherokee|1988 Ford Fiesta XR2

    www.essexdriversclub.com

 

 
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