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  1. #1
    S3 Paul's Avatar
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    Has anybody heard of a 171 and 172 driving offence?

    I know these are only issued to fools who loon around and risk other road users.
    So before we slate the people who deserve them...
    I have a trainee at work who has been issued with a "171" like an automotive ASBO so im told, Aparently you get a 171 for a number of things such as noise polution. Daft driving and street racing...
    The thing that bothered me is he was told by the police man... that they have the power to crush your car if you get 2 171s making it a 172??
    Is this realy right?
    I have no plans to get one but... seems a wee bit harsh surely?
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    i have heard similar things but nothing definate,
    they're on about issuing fines if your car is not insured at all times even if its off the road, they'll probably want to crush them too so your not tempted to drive it

  4. #3
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    On a slightly different note i think i passed you the other day paul, you have the missus and kids in the car on saturday afternoon?
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    S3 Paul's Avatar
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    Ah... yes i did wonder lol i had just left my folks house.
    I didnt realise you hadnt seen my car last time i saw you.
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    I don't think they go far enough, they should crush your car if you're caught over the limit and if you have no insurance or MOT. Something has to be done other than pathetic fines that these parasites probably don't even pay and at least it means they can't easily continue driving.
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  7. #6
    NHN
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    Ask resident copper Tom, he'd know the score

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    Thats a bit harsh andy i think. some people are forgetful, and a measly 60 fine should be giving to wake them, but yer if there mot is like 8 months over due then either give them a massive fine like 1k's or crush the car.

    My mate got had bad, he got caught doing double the limit, 60 in a 30. somehow as it was just coming off a roundabout. well hes now banned lol. got to retake his test. And with totals of around 400 in fines, plus costs of retaking his tests, Its going to cost him over 500, which to me makes me angry. you will just say well he shouldnt of been doing double the speed limit. bent cop imo
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    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by emery1990 View Post
    Thats a bit harsh andy i think. some people are forgetful, and a measly 60 fine should be giving to wake them, but yer if there mot is like 8 months over due then either give them a massive fine like 1k's or crush the car.

    My mate got had bad, he got caught doing double the limit, 60 in a 30. somehow as it was just coming off a roundabout. well hes now banned lol. got to retake his test. And with totals of around 400 in fines, plus costs of retaking his tests, Its going to cost him over 500, which to me makes me angry. you will just say well he shouldnt of been doing double the speed limit. bent cop imo
    That'll teach them not to be forgetful then, its not exactly a science is it to understand the rules even if we dont agree/like them.

    So your mate does twice legal limit knowingly & you're angry for what reason, he was braking the law, simple as, if he cant read a simple sign then whose fault is that, the coppers, play with fire being boy racerish then get burnt, 60 just coming of roundabout, obvious ragging it then & assume was within 2 yrs of passing his test to retake or is this compulsory for speeders of that level over?

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    Cars can be crushed....same for sec 59 too.

    60mph and your angry?...bent cop??...good old fashioned driving like a cock i would say. Double the speed limit in a 30?...what do you expect. 30's are 30's for a reason....the sooner he winds his neck in the better.
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  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    Cars can be crushed....same for sec 59 too.

    60mph and your angry?...bent cop??...good old fashioned driving like a cock i would say. Double the speed limit in a 30?...what do you expect. 30's are 30's for a reason....the sooner he winds his neck in the better.
    Couldnt agree more tbh, bent copper, pull the right one, bent coppers do things for money not stop someone for not braking the law, as Tom says tell him to wind the neck in & stop driving like a tit then he'll wake up to reality, that its his attitude that gets him these into these issues not the rest of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emery1990 View Post
    Thats a bit harsh andy i think. some people are forgetful,
    You cannot afford to be forgetful when behind the wheel of a killing machine. So I just forgot to renew my car insurance or MOT? I then accidently kill some poor families Dad, the breadwinner, and I'm not insured so that poor family cannot get any compensation for losing their loved one. People don't seem to realise driving a car is not a god given right, it's the only day to day chance you have of easily killing someone, just by glancing at your phone or changing a CD or, like your mate, just driving like a moron. Yes, I know, I've done exactly the same thing at times, 60 in a 30 is not so hard to do as some 30's are big wide empty dual carriageways (they're the ones with the speed traps), so I'm not having a go, but to then whinge and moan about the consequences is a bit OTT. 30 over the limit is a court case & usually a ban, everyone knows that, so seems totally fair.
    People just seem to think everyone has the right to drive a car, I don't. I think it should be a lot harder for people to get behind the wheel. I don't think you should be able to retake the driving test an infinate amount of times, 5 times and your out, end of story. Some people just do not have the required skills and should not be on the road. Those that do pass should be retested every 5 years then every year when they get to 60. Not wait until they find themselves driving the wrong way down the M3 to finally get a doctor to say they should not drive. Sorry rant over (for now).
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  14. #13
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    If your mate had blonde hair and a rack he probably would have got off a bit lighter! My Mrs got pulled doing 55 in a 30 during the day on her way to work and managed to get of scott free
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  15. #14
    S3 Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    You cannot afford to be forgetful when behind the wheel of a killing machine. So I just forgot to renew my car insurance or MOT? I then accidently kill some poor families Dad, the breadwinner, and I'm not insured so that poor family cannot get any compensation for losing their loved one. People don't seem to realise driving a car is not a god given right, it's the only day to day chance you have of easily killing someone, just by glancing at your phone or changing a CD or, like your mate, just driving like a moron. Yes, I know, I've done exactly the same thing at times, 60 in a 30 is not so hard to do as some 30's are big wide empty dual carriageways (they're the ones with the speed traps), so I'm not having a go, but to then whinge and moan about the consequences is a bit OTT. 30 over the limit is a court case & usually a ban, everyone knows that, so seems totally fair.
    People just seem to think everyone has the right to drive a car, I don't. I think it should be a lot harder for people to get behind the wheel. I don't think you should be able to retake the driving test an infinate amount of times, 5 times and your out, end of story. Some people just do not have the required skills and should not be on the road. Those that do pass should be retested every 5 years then every year when they get to 60. Not wait until they find themselves driving the wrong way down the M3 to finally get a doctor to say they should not drive. Sorry rant over (for now).
    Im guessing from how strongly you feel some personal loss has happened. there for i will not say some of the things i was going to.

    We all brake the speed limit. we have all done a not strictly legal move... but was your head full of what ifs when you did??
    Also if it is made harder and harder to become legal on the road... alot of people will be forced to use public transport to get to and from work... Alot of jobs now a days are shift hours so i know i for one would be screwed if i couldnt drive, I would be stuck with a 9 to 5 along with another million or so who could no longer work shifts too.
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  16. #15
    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westle View Post
    If your mate had blonde hair and a rack he probably would have got off a bit lighter! My Mrs got pulled doing 55 in a 30 during the day on her way to work and managed to get of scott free
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  17. #16
    S3 Paul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A3Tom View Post
    Cars can be crushed....same for sec 59 too.

    60mph and your angry?...bent cop??...good old fashioned driving like a cock i would say. Double the speed limit in a 30?...what do you expect. 30's are 30's for a reason....the sooner he winds his neck in the better.
    The crushing of a car...
    is it the result of getting too many 171s or just something they can do with no way of you fighting it?

    i was under the impresion... they gave you a 171 which lasted 12 months. if you get another its then time for a 172 which means your car is towed away. in order to get it back you have to pay a fine and prove your insured to drive it??

    Surely a copper saying ... thats it sonny... im squashing your car . is a bit harsh??

    A freind of a friend was issued with a 171 about a year ago for driving a mod'd car into a morrisons car park after5pm .
    Surely thats a bit silly. He went to the cash machine then left.
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  18. #17
    NHN
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    A freind of a friend was issued with a 171 about a year ago for driving a mod'd car into a morrisons car park after5pm .
    Surely thats a bit silly. He went to the cash machine then left.
    Did it sound like a north korean rocket passing overhead by any chance, given its a rather obvious public area & I do find it funny the short part of their story always seems to favour the person gettng the tickets but when we hear the whole story it shows they've acted like an idiot anyway & ticket was just deserved, you dont get tickets just for that, you really dont unless he was causing a problem.
    Last edited by NHN; 6th October 2009 at 17:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    Im guessing from how strongly you feel some personal loss has happened. there for i will not say some of the things i was going to.
    Also if it is made harder and harder to become legal on the road... alot of people will be forced to use public transport to get to and from work... Alot of jobs now a days are shift hours so i know i for one would be screwed if i couldnt drive, I would be stuck with a 9 to 5 along with another million or so who could no longer work shifts too.
    No personal loss thankfully, just common sense. It is not harder & harder to be legal on the road, how do you make that out? You just need a roadworthy vehicle, taxed & insured, surely this is not too demanding for the average person to comprehend. Yes we all go over the speed limit, probably everytime we get behind the wheel if we're honest, but speed camera's are all clearly marked, and speed traps are easily defeated with a laser jammer plus you do have 3 chances before you face a possible ban. I've was banned for a year from motorway totting up so I know exactly what the consequences are, I only managed to keep my job by spending an absolute fortune on taxi's & public transport.
    So you're saying we should have a bunch of uninsured deathtraps on the road just so people can get to their shiftwork? Quite unbelievable.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    I don't think they go far enough, they should crush your car if you're caught over the limit and if you have no insurance or MOT. Something has to be done other than pathetic fines that these parasites probably don't even pay and at least it means they can't easily continue driving.
    I agree! I think all coppers should carry a pair of scissors, so when they pull someone doing something stupid like double the limit they should have their licence cut in half on the spot (providing they have one) told to walk home, crush the car and then send them the bill!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    but speed camera's are all clearly marked, and speed traps are easily defeated with a laser jammer plus you do have 3 chances before you face a possible ban
    Where I 100% agree with you on everything else, this is not so true, not all cameras are clearly marked thats for sure & they intentionally let trees grow to cover the yellow boxes up & speed traps arent easy to see at all times.

    I also have had a ban years & years back, so know that feeling all to well, never wanna be back in that place ever again, teaches you for sure.

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    If they're not clearly marked or hidden then you can dispute the NIP. Speed traps don't have to be easy to spot, that's the point, and because they are manned they can pick you off nearly 2 miles away so it would be too late anyway. That's why you need a garage door opener.
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    Andy, cant the man with the laser tell if you've got a device thats boucing his reading? I know that in France and Belgium you're in big big trouble if you get caught with such a device.
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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    Did it sound like a north korean rocket passing overhead by any chance, given its a rather obvious public area & I do find it funny the short part of there story always seems to favour the person gettng the tickets but when we hear the whole story it shows they've acted like an idiot anyway & ticket was just deserved, you dont get tickets just for that, you really dont unless he was causing a problem.
    Lots of assumptions there. The law is not infallible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ash_pearce View Post
    I agree! I think all coppers should carry a pair of scissors, so when they pull someone doing something stupid like double the limit they should have their licence cut in half on the spot (providing they have one) told to walk home, crush the car and then send them the bill!
    I'm sure you'd love that if it happened to you.
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  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    No personal loss thankfully, just common sense. It is not harder & harder to be legal on the road, how do you make that out? You just need a roadworthy vehicle, taxed & insured, surely this is not too demanding for the average person to comprehend. Yes we all go over the speed limit, probably everytime we get behind the wheel if we're honest, but speed camera's are all clearly marked, and speed traps are easily defeated with a laser jammer plus you do have 3 chances before you face a possible ban. I've was banned for a year from motorway totting up so I know exactly what the consequences are, I only managed to keep my job by spending an absolute fortune on taxi's & public transport.
    So you're saying we should have a bunch of uninsured deathtraps on the road just so people can get to their shiftwork? Quite unbelievable.....

    I dont want another arguement thread with my name in to be honest...
    BUT you surgested the rules should be tightened so it would be harder for somebody just starting out . Then you seem happy to tell all that you brake the law plenty and carry gadgets to stop you from being banned again.



    As for the ticket the lad got in the post.... it was a standard lounding astra gsi. It was a trolly man who reported him to the police. After a while he argued the case and it was canceled i think. What would have happened if the car had been crushed? "sorry son, no hard feelings"?????
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    As for the ticket the lad got in the post.... it was a standard lounding astra gsi. It was a trolly man who reported him to the police. After a while he argued the case and it was canceled i think. What would have happened if the car had been crushed? "sorry son, no hard feelings"?????
    Sounds about right
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    Laser jammers - could be P.C.O.J...be warned.
    Sounds like the O/Ps mate got a Sec 59 warning, which is all about antisocial use etc. Get another one and the car can be crushed!

    171/172 are in relation to naming drivers of vehicles following NIPs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post

    I'm sure you'd love that if it happened to you.
    Your right i'd be gutted but the point is if the police had more power to impose such penalties and punishments you'd think twice about breaking the rules wouldn't you?

    But lets not forget we live in a pc world now and you cant say boo to a goose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emery1990 View Post
    My mate got had bad, he got caught doing double the limit, 60 in a 30. somehow as it was just coming off a roundabout. well hes now banned lol. got to retake his test. And with totals of around 400 in fines, plus costs of retaking his tests, Its going to cost him over 500, which to me makes me angry. you will just say well he shouldnt of been doing double the speed limit. bent cop imo
    Sorry I know this has been covered, but WTF? He is doing double the speed limit and the cop is bent?

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    Thanks for that,
    My trainee at work said the police man said they were being nice as they can take his car and it would be crushed.
    Thats what shocked me, I was hoping scare tactic but didnt say anything .
    Does it depend on the offence you get stopped for?
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    My understanding, which may be wrong, is that when the car is sezied the driver/keeper has a period of time (14 days?) in which to collect the car with the necessary proof of ownership/insurance etc. If they fail to do that, or are unable to pay the recovery/storage costs then the Recovery agent can sell/scrap the car to recoup their own costs.

    The Road Tax legislation may be different however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by quattrojames View Post
    My understanding, which may be wrong, is that when the car is sezied the driver/keeper has a period of time (14 days?) in which to collect the car with the necessary proof of ownership/insurance etc. If they fail to do that, or are unable to pay the recovery/storage costs then the Recovery agent can sell/scrap the car to recoup their own costs.

    The Road Tax legislation may be different however.

    You get 2 Section 59's before the car is taken off you. The warnings are on either the vehicle OR the driver and are placed on PNC on both. Once there are 2 warnings on either (driver or vehicle) the vehicle gets lifted. You then have 14 days to pay the recovery fee or the car can be disposed of. I think 'local policies' may vary from area to area though.

    Sounds to me like the O/P''s mate was being given a bit of advice and perhaps a scare tactic to get him to calm things down a bit. Better that that report him for something (which could have been an option).

    T

    Edit to add: Section 59 Warnings are in relation to anti-social use of a vehicle. I've given loads out to bunches of morons that think handbrake turns on a McDonalds carpark are a good idea. Lots on moped riders too who think they can ride about on parkland/footpaths etc etc. "Catch you doing that again and I'm taking that off you sunshine"
    Last edited by A3Tom; 6th October 2009 at 17:37.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    If they're not clearly marked or hidden then you can dispute the NIP. Speed traps don't have to be easy to spot, that's the point, and because they are manned they can pick you off nearly 2 miles away so it would be too late anyway. That's why you need a garage door opener.
    Thats true, they must be clearly seen but try fighting them with that line & see how far you get without it costing the earth & with the new idea of us not claiming our costs if we win cases, can see everyone walking before long, garage opener, like that, lol

    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    Lots of assumptions there. The law is not infallible.


    I'm sure you'd love that if it happened to you.
    Huh, assumptions, open your eyes it was a question of sorts, specsavers me old fruit & also I was stating about stories we have heard before thats why I said "THEIR", it wasnt in reference neccessarily to this person, past situations have always shown us the light & the person was at fault.

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  34. #33
    A3Tom's Avatar
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    There's a very easy way not to get caught speeding

    You all know what it is, ignore it and you're taking your chance. If you're caught....you're fair game. Its not like anyones not told you to stick to limits...occupational hazard of enjoying spirited driving chaps!.

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  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    I dont want another arguement thread with my name in to be honest...
    BUT you surgested the rules should be tightened so it would be harder for somebody just starting out . Then you seem happy to tell all that you brake the law plenty and carry gadgets to stop you from being banned again.
    Don't remember actually saying any of those things, so would appreciate a slightly less tabloid summary please.
    I suggested seriously dangerous behaviour should be dealt with appropriately. I don't remember saying I carry any sort of gadgets, just pointed out that there are ways and means of protecting your licence. I said we all break the speed limit so that's you, me and everyone else. Anyone claiming they never do is lying or just totally oblivious to their behaviour on the road, something that seems to be worse than ever on UK roads.
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  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotboxDeluxe View Post
    Lots of assumptions there. The law is not infallible.


    I'm sure you'd love that if it happened to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by NHN View Post
    Huh, assumptions, open your eyes it was a question of sorts, specsavers me old fruit & also I was stating about stories we have heard before thats why I said "THEIR", it wasnt in reference neccessarily to this person, past situations have always shown us the light & the person was at fault.
    What I quoted from you was unedited and one big long assumption:

    Originally Posted by NHN
    Did it sound like a north korean rocket passing overhead by any chance, given its a rather obvious public area & I do find it funny the short part of there story always seems to favour the person gettng the tickets but when we hear the whole story it shows they've acted like an idiot anyway & ticket was just deserved, you dont get tickets just for that, you really dont unless he was causing a problem.

    I see no question mark. Not really got much of a question-y feel to it. Why so aggressive?
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  37. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac View Post
    Don't remember actually saying any of those things, so would appreciate a slightly less tabloid summary please.
    I suggested seriously dangerous behaviour should be dealt with appropriately. I don't remember saying I carry any sort of gadgets, just pointed out that there are ways and means of protecting your licence. I said we all break the speed limit so that's you, me and everyone else. Anyone claiming they never do is lying or just totally oblivious to their behaviour on the road, something that seems to be worse than ever on UK roads.
    Read what you typed...
    Realy read it.

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    "Yes we all go over the speed limit, probably everytime we get behind the wheel if we're honest, but speed camera's are all clearly marked, and speed traps are easily defeated with a laser jammer plus you do have 3 chances before you face a possible ban"

    Thought it, typed it, read it and re-read it. Please help me out here where exactly do I say I "break the law plenty" and have "gadgets" to prevent me from being banned again?
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  39. #38
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    Ah... so now you are only backing away from PART of what you said you didnt post?
    You In as many words said the rest.
    I realy dont get the "burn them all" kind of angle to this,

    Remember here that this is away of punishing the LEGAL drivers. Giving points... fining drivers who pay to be on the road...
    People who realy dont give two s..ts about the law of the land will go on buying crap cars... not registering them in their names and driving around until they get it crushed. I was hit by an uninsured driver... what happened to him?? not a lot , he didnt turn up at court. I had a 3.5k worth of repairs to deal with.
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

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  40. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3 Paul View Post
    Remember here that this is away of punishing the LEGAL drivers. Giving points... fining drivers who pay to be on the road...
    I'm not sure I follow..... Even if a driver is 'legal' they can still break the law and thus leave themselves open for 'punishment'. If a driver was 100% innocent then they would have nothing to fear.
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  41. #40
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    Sorry, I may not have explained very well there,
    What i ment was that in my eyes there is a problem with people who drive but have no intention of ever passing the driving test or actualy taking out insurance. To me the scary side of braking the motoring laws is that i maynot be able to drive to work or be able to afford the increased insurance ... If an uninsured driver looses their licence chances are they will carry on driving... what will stop them?
    Anyway, thats my personal feeling but probably not one shared by the masses.
    I agree there are offences that do deserve having the car taken from the driver... the fine to get it back should be much higher rather than what it is and reflect the offence that landed the car where it is. Driving a car with a loud stereo or exhaust that upsets people should be viewed diffrently to say somebody found street racing?? I do know of people who received the "automotive ASBO" for one or the other.
    Noggy Blue 2001 S3

    I ask questions because i change my mind so much. If i ask questions you have already covered... just leave it be?

 

 

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