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  1. #1
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    VW Challenges the S3 - Golf R revealed at Frankfurt Show

    270 BHP, Haldex 4WD and sports styling...looks like the S3 has some in-house competition as I bet the Golf is going to be cheaper.

    http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/v...f-r-2009-09-15
    S3 Sportback DSG in Sprint Blue with mag ride, interior lights, Bose, parking sensors.

    and...

    99 TT Roadster

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  3. #2
    KRL
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    Quote from the link you posted:

    Don't expect to see many on the road: VW says it expects to sell just 500 or so Golf Rs per year, with prices starting at around 28,500.
    Thats more than an S3!!!!!
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


  4. #3
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    All the more reason for an RS3!

    Meteor S3, APR Stage 3, APR HPFP, Milltek TBE, LOBA/Sach's Clutch, Bilstein PSS10's, H&R ARB, Gen4 Haldex PP, EVOM's DV & CAI, Forge TB with Pro-Alloy IC, BBS CK 19" My S3

  5. #4
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    Nice car, shame about the price.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  6. #5
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    In the present climate they will be lucky to sell 50.

  7. #6
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    It's basically an S3 in a different shell isn't it? 266BHP, not 270, not too sure if going away from V6 power like previous R32's is a good thing, maybe they should have dropped an R36 engine from the Passat R36, but emmisions would probably have been to high.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  8. #7
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    Talking

    I wonder what kind of person would buy one of them ?

  9. #8
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    I like it, smart looking car...I'm sure it'll be a nice drive to, would i have one over the equivalent Audi, same price...

    Doubtful...
    revo'd

  10. #9
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    what about their question ford rs or the golf ? The ford probally be a better fast drive.
    Its gone replaced with a mk2 golf gti 16v :D

  11. #10
    KRL
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    The Ford is also 2k cheaper. Really can't understand the asking price of 28.5k
    Ice Silver S3 + every single option + REVO + BSH Street Can + Forge Twintake + Autotech


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    I'd rather a Scirocco.

    2003 Audi S3 + Go faster bits

  13. #12
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    Mmm S3 or Golf, are they serious. Who in thier right mind would buy the golf.

    Mark
    07 S3 Sprint Blue Now Sold
    12 Range Rover Evoque Dynamic Now sold
    A3 20 TDI S-Line Sportback in Daytona Grey with Aluminium Roof Rails, Fine Nappa Leather, Sat Nav, Comfort pack,Audi Sound System, Folding Mirrors, Heated Seats, Privacy Glass, Interior Light Pack, Non Smoke Pack.

  14. #13
    jojo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwiggy View Post
    Mmm S3 or Golf, are they serious. Who in thier right mind would buy the golf.

    Mark
    The ones who think they are getting a 3.2 V6 lol



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  15. #14
    Ess_Three's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gos6 View Post
    In the present climate they will be lucky to sell 50.
    Are you taking the p*ss?
    Try buying a Mk6 GTI...they are all sold out until the new year...at an average price of 27-28000.
    You cannot get a new Golf GTI for love or money...that lowly, cheap, not-nearly-as-well-made relative of the A3.

    An extra 2000 or so for an R...the deposits are already mounting up at dealers.
    They'll sell every car they make.


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  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by leggy View Post
    I like it, smart looking car...I'm sure it'll be a nice drive to, would i have one over the equivalent Audi, same price...

    Doubtful...
    Why?
    Because all the Audi owners believe the A3 is a better car than a Mk6 Golf.
    Mk6 Golf GTI drives better than the A3, is better made in my opinion and - takes a deep breath - has a better interior! Shock horror.

    So a Golf R will be about the same price as an S3 with options...early 30,000s....for basically the same car underneath.
    What if the Golf R drives better?

    Maybe some owners prefer the bigger interior space of the Golf over the 3dr A3?
    Or maybe they prefer the shape of the Mk6 Golf 5 dr to the A3 Sportback?

    You pays your money and makes your choice...


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  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwiggy View Post
    Mmm S3 or Golf, are they serious. Who in thier right mind would buy the golf.

    Mark
    Me.


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  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    Why?
    Because all the Audi owners believe the A3 is a better car than a Mk6 Golf.
    Mk6 Golf GTI drives better than the A3, is better made in my opinion and - takes a deep breath - has a better interior! Shock horror.

    So a Golf R will be about the same price as an S3 with options...early 30,000s....for basically the same car underneath.
    What if the Golf R drives better?

    Maybe some owners prefer the bigger interior space of the Golf over the 3dr A3?
    Or maybe they prefer the shape of the Mk6 Golf 5 dr to the A3 Sportback?

    You pays your money and makes your choice...


    Because I'd rather have an S3, simple as that really...
    revo'd

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by leggy View Post
    Because I'd rather have an S3, simple as that really...
    Quite so.
    And the bottom line will be people will buy whichever they prefer, as there won't be any form of actual class distinction between them nor build quality difference, nor performance difference.

    Although there will be a perceived one, no doubt.

    I seriously doubt anyone will be disapointed with either...


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  20. #19
    Essflee's Avatar
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    I totally agree, given the chance to drive both cars I may change my mind for one reason or another, I suppose I'm biased because I've always liked the S3 hence the 8L I presently own, however I suppose if I had the money in reality I'd be driving both cars and making my mind up from there...

    It would no doubt be a close call...
    revo'd

  21. #20
    unkle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwiggy View Post
    Mmm S3 or Golf, are they serious. Who in thier right mind would buy the golf.

    Mark
    I'd have to test drive both but I wouldnt write off the Golf straight away just because its a Golf.

    I love the VW Monza II alloys, they looked pretty good on the mk5 but on the mk6 they look perfectly matched. Ive owned both A3's and Golfs, they isnt much in it between them, the Audi has a bit more badge kudos and the interior has a few more nicer touches but the Golf is cheaper and handles better/nicer to drive. (in my opinion)
    Volvo V50 D5 R-Design

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    I'd have to test drive both but I wouldnt write off the Golf straight away just because its a Golf.

    I love the VW Monza II alloys, they looked pretty good on the mk5 but on the mk6 they look perfectly matched. Ive owned both A3's and Golfs, they isnt much in it between them, the Audi has a bit more badge kudos and the interior has a few more nicer touches but the Golf is cheaper and handles better/nicer to drive. (in my opinion)
    I would have agreed on the interior until the Mk6 came along...it, in my view, has a better interior in terms of materials, build and ergonomics, compared to the A3.
    However, let's not forget that the A3 is an 'old' design now, more in line with the Mk5 Golf...so it's not really surprising that the Mk6 Golf is a step on again.

    The Golf does drive better...no doubt in my mind either...if the R will or not, we'll have to wait and see.

    But if you want a 30k+ VAG 4WD hatch, then the decision is no longer a one sided one!


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  23. #22
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    Its all getting rather stupid if you ask me !! 30k for a Golf !! Lets face it you can get a std one if you look hard for 13.5k......and they want another 16.5k to put an old Audi lump in it.
    Ibis white Revo S3 and now matching Vivaro LWB HR 2900 :-)

    Many people are alive because its illegal to shoot them.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    Its all getting rather stupid if you ask me !! 30k for a Golf !! Lets face it you can get a std one if you look hard for 13.5k......and they want another 16.5k to put an old Audi lump in it.
    But selling an A3 1.6 for 14.5k and then selling S3s at 30k+ with options is OK is it?
    Isn't that a difference of about the same?

    And don't give me the old crap about the S3 being a different car to the A3...it's about as different as a Golf R is over a basic Golf.

    Since when does sticking 4 rings on the grill make it OK, but not with a VW badge on the grille?


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  25. #24
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    This a good thing for the VAG range IMO.

    Was saying something similar in another thread, the Golf deserves a `proper` hot model in the line up, 211bhp in a modern day hot hatch is nothing short of puny.
    I cringed when I read VW were sticking the same 20T lump with a WHOLE extra 11bhp in the MK6.
    This has put some credability back in the mix.
    And if it means AUDI have to up their game with the S3 and maybe give us a hotter run out S3 before the new platform arrives, then that good thing.

    If the Mk6 is as good as the MK5 then it will be a very good car so the MK6 R should be fantastic.
    I found the MK5 interior very good too, although not as good as an S3 but the S3 is a lot more money so you would expect that. Cant comment on the MK6 cabin however.

    Price wise I think its too expensive but hot Golfs always were, and people will still buy them, crazy or not.

    And it wont matter if its 2K more than the Focus, the majority of people mooching around VW showrooms looking at the Golf R will probably drive straight past the FORD showroom anyway IMO.
    I paid 17K for a 2yr old MK5GTi not that long ago when 13K would have got me a FOCUS ST at the time.
    Why the 17K Golf?, I just wanted one, it was more desirable to me.

    The desirability of car is a strong influence when you are buying a car and many will forego superior out and out driving dynamics for other factors such as the badge etc.

    So, if the Golf was MUCH better than the current S3 and as well built I would consider one over the S3.
    (Although as much as I like the way the MK6 looks, I still prefer the `old` pre facelift 8P S3 looks.)

    But if it just had an `edge`, then ******** to that, I will have the S3, for the same reason I pay over the odds for a T shirt that has the right badge on it and not a perfectly good ASDA George equivelent ....because Im a badge snob, there I just said it......and I bet Im not the only one!

    my 3p anyway.

    cheers
    Paul
    Last edited by PaulAr; 19th September 2009 at 08:29.
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulAr View Post
    This a good thing for the VAG range IMO.
    I agree Paul.
    How can it be anything other than a good thing for the likes of us?

    Was saying something similar in another thread, the Golf deserves a `proper` hot model in the line up, 211bhp in a modern day hot hatch is nothing short of puny.
    I cringed when I read VW were sticking the same 20T lump with a WHOLE extra 11bhp in the MK6.

    If the Mk6 is as good as the MK5 then it will be a very good car so the MK6 R should be fantastic.
    I found the MK5 interior very good too, although not as good as an S3 but the S3 is a lot more money so you would expect that. Cant comment on the MK6 cabin however.
    The GTI chassis has always been a belter...so much better than the engine output. It could use another 100 BHP and not break sweat.
    The Mk6 is just like a Mk5...just a bit 'better'. The XDS just works and makes it oh so easy.

    If the R can keep the chassis dynamics of the GTI, but add better traction, and more power...it's win-win.

    I believe the Mk6 cabin to be a small step up on current A3/S3..but then again, it's a revision later...so it should be.
    No doubt the next Gen A3/S3 will restore the balance.

    Mk6 = the good Mk5 with all the bad points sorted out.



    Price wise I think its too expensive but hot Golfs always were, and people will still buy them, crazy or not.
    I suspect more will be interested in the Golf R than the Mk5 R32 as the running costs are a level down.


    And it wont matter if its 2K more than the Focus, the majority of people mooching around VW showrooms looking at the Golf R will probably drive straight past the FORD showroom anyway IMO.
    Yup, I would bet so.


    So, if the Golf was MUCH better than the current S3 and as well built I would consider one over the S3.
    Same here...I can't see either being a bad car. It would come down to whichever floated your boat more when looking.
    It's certainly not fair to say that a 30k Golf isn't a clever buy, when you compare it to the S3.


    because Im a badge snob, there I just said it......and I bet Im not the only one!
    Don't you feel better for saying that?
    Like a weight lifted?

    Recognition is the first step to cure, Paul. Remember that!


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  27. #26
    mitch78's Avatar
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    I couldn't disagree more. A Mk6 is a Mk5 built on a smaller budget. The only "improvements" from an engineering perspective are to reduce the production costs, not to improve the dynamics of the car. They simply tried to build it cheaper without making it worse.

    Having said that, I have no problem with the R, and it is about time they used that engine in a Golf.
    Ex 8L S3 driver

    also A3, 320, Golf, Clio, Astra, Focus, Mondeo, Laguna, Escort, Calibra, 220, others and now back to a Focus...

  28. #27
    PaulAr's Avatar
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    I think its fair to say the Golf is almost a brand within a brand.
    Its been around for 30+yr without a name change and become an Icon, and in GTi guise even more so...

    IMO this why the Golf is a more close consideration to its posh cousin than say, the Passat would be to the A4.

    The Passat/Vento/Polo are VWs, the Golf is a Golf.
    Hence why it commands such a premium and people like me are daft enough to pay through the nose to have one instead of a cheaper equally as capable `car X` on the drive.

    The Golf R will be the 1st car in a long time to tick nearly as many boxes as the S3 for me.
    It will be a while before I have that dilemna though as the plan is to keep this car for 3yr (never done that before)

    Although the latent badge snob in me will still struggle with the price though.....


    cheers
    Paul
    Now:
    -MK2 Golf Gti 16V/VR6, Oak Green, Shrick, Intake, Decat, Kish Retrim, Lenso BSX..
    -BMW 335d Xdrive, Estoril Blue, fully loaded.

    Before:
    S3 (8P), Ibis, DSG, Milltek, SHARK

    BMW 320d M Sport
    S3 (8P), Sprint, REVO, H&R Springs, BBS CHs,

    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - REVO Stage1, Red.
    Golf MK5 GTi 20TFSI - Std, Shadow Blue
    Civic Type `R`
    Golf MK4 GTi 18T - 200bhp, MTM ECU, Forge DV
    Golf MK3 VR6 - Cat Back
    Corrado VR6 - JAMEX
    Corrado G60 - JAMEX, BRM Charger rebuild
    etc....

  29. #28
    paddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    But selling an A3 1.6 for 14.5k and then selling S3s at 30k+ with options is OK is it?
    Isn't that a difference of about the same?

    And don't give me the old crap about the S3 being a different car to the A3...it's about as different as a Golf R is over a basic Golf.

    Since when does sticking 4 rings on the grill make it OK, but not with a VW badge on the grille?
    Eh.....No mate. Its exactly the same. Now pick your toys up and listen...I priced up an S3 on the website the other day and it cam to 32k....What i am saying is that VAG are ripping people off. I am quite sure it dosnt cost 13k more to make a S3 golf than a Civic R for instance.
    Ibis white Revo S3 and now matching Vivaro LWB HR 2900 :-)

    Many people are alive because its illegal to shoot them.

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    Now pick your toys up and listen
    Is that really necessary?
    8P2 S3

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  31. #30
    paddy's Avatar
    Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Did you read his post i quoted.....He came at me all guns blazing ! I just fired a shot a shot back
    Ibis white Revo S3 and now matching Vivaro LWB HR 2900 :-)

    Many people are alive because its illegal to shoot them.

  32. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    Did you read his post i quoted.....He came at me all guns blazing ! I just fired a shot a shot back
    His didn't contain a personal attack though bud. You might disagree on things but there's no need for those sorts of comments Paddy.
    8P2 S3

    For advice on Air Con problems please read my FAQs.
    To find ASN members with VCDS check out the MAP.

  33. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch78 View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. A Mk6 is a Mk5 built on a smaller budget. The only "improvements" from an engineering perspective are to reduce the production costs, not to improve the dynamics of the car. They simply tried to build it cheaper without making it worse.
    Ahh..so taking current models then: GTI, giving it a far 'better' interior, adding XDS to give better traction and allowing ACC to be fitted, isn't/doesn't improve the dynamics?

    Driven one have you?
    Because I'd say the dynamics are a step above the Mk5.

    The fact that they claimed to have built it cheaper, and incidentally appegedly lighter, is surely a good achivement?. No?


    Having said that, I have no problem with the R, and it is about time they used that engine in a Golf.
    Absolutely...and dropped that boat anchor of a V6 they clung onto for too long.


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  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    Eh.....No mate. Its exactly the same. Now pick your toys up and listen...I priced up an S3 on the website the other day and it cam to 32k....What i am saying is that VAG are ripping people off. I am quite sure it dosnt cost 13k more to make a S3 golf than a Civic R for instance.
    Thanks for your reply...
    But it's no different to what happens now, is it? (with an Audi badge on the car) and people are happy to spend theit hard earned on it, because they've earned it and can do as they wish.

    It may not be right, but it's a fact of life.

    VAG are no different to any other marque.


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  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    Did you read his post i quoted.....He came at me all guns blazing ! I just fired a shot a shot back
    All guns blazing eh?
    If I had, you'd know about it.

    Now stop wrapping yourself up in cotton wool.

    Out of interest, why do you drive a 3.2 DSG when a 1.6 would have been so much cheaper?


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  36. #35
    paddy's Avatar
    Audi=No fault code, no idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ess_Three View Post
    All guns blazing eh?
    If I had, you'd know about it.

    Now stop wrapping yourself up in cotton wool.

    Out of interest, why do you drive a 3.2 DSG when a 1.6 would have been so much cheaper?
    What i your problem mate ?
    You put a silly disclaimer on the bottom of your posts and you think you don't have to behave like a moderator anymore. You come at me with lines like
    "And don't give me the old crap about the S3 being a different car to the A3" and you expect me to roll over and play dead...lol

    I paid less than the price of a new 1.6 for my 3.2 and its a better car for the money IMHO.
    Staz
    Sorry mate, this is my first excursion outside the 8p thread and i dont likethe welcoming committee
    I will stick to the friendly threads in future.
    Ibis white Revo S3 and now matching Vivaro LWB HR 2900 :-)

    Many people are alive because its illegal to shoot them.

  37. #36
    Ess_Three's Avatar
    Moderator

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    Quote Originally Posted by paddy View Post
    What i your problem mate ?
    I don't have one.
    From what I'm reading, you are the one with a problem.


    You put a silly disclaimer on the bottom of your posts and you think you don't have to behave like a moderator anymore.

    How should a Moderator behave in your little bubble?
    Are we not entitled to an opinion because we choose to help out around here?
    Give your head a shake.

    I tire of people like you and the usual comments when Moderators holding an opinion that just happens to differ to yours.


    You come at me with lines like
    "And don't give me the old crap about the S3 being a different car to the A3" and you expect me to roll over and play dead...lol
    It's a valid point, isn't it?
    People like to think that the S3 is some mythical beast...it's not. It s an A3.
    In the same way a Golf R will be a Golf. Albeit an expensive one.
    The parallels are the same.
    Why should you 'play dead' over me pointing that out?...or even get all upset about it?

    Did you get out of bed the wrong side this morning?


    I paid less than the price of a new 1.6 for my 3.2 and its a better car for the money IMHO.
    So why should it surprise you that other people may take the view that they will pay more for a car that they view as a better car, regardless of the money. If they can afford it, good for them. They obviously don't consider it rather stupid, as you did in your first post.


    Staz
    Sorry mate, this is my first excursion outside the 8p thread and i dont likethe welcoming committee
    I will stick to the friendly threads in future.
    You chose to post your comments on the subject in a public Forum...maybe you should consider not doing next time if you don't like someone holdinmg a different view?

    Now, would you like us to help you pick up your toys?


    Please note:
    The views expressed on Audi-Sport.net are the personal views of its contributors (including me), and not that of the Website or the Moderator/Administration team.

  38. #37
    jojo's Avatar
    S3 Drift King!

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    Just like a Golf!



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



  39. #38
    unkle's Avatar
    Beer God

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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Just like a Golf!
    Jessica Alba in an S3 vs Holly Wallaby in a Golf R....

    I dare you to poll that jojo, I double dare you...
    Volvo V50 D5 R-Design

  40. #39
    TDI-line's Avatar
    Uber Post Whore

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    Quote Originally Posted by markwiggy View Post
    Mmm S3 or Golf, are they serious. Who in thier right mind would buy the golf.

    Mark
    I certainly would.

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    2013 AUDI A3 SB S-LINE : 2.0 TDIQ 184 : GLACIER WHITE :
    : S-TRONIC : COMFORT PACK : SD SAT NAV : FOLDING MIRRORS : HEATED SEATS: RIGID BOOT LINER :

  41. #40
    jojo's Avatar
    S3 Drift King!

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    Quote Originally Posted by unkle View Post
    Jessica Alba in an S3 vs Holly Wallaby in a Golf R....

    I dare you to poll that jojo, I double dare you...
    No point lol, Alba will walk that one.



    99' Audi S3(APY) - Brilliant Black Click>>>Going Sideways vid!
    You've got to have a laugh! For Sale:LCR Brakes - £400



 

 
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