Im reading from this the car put out 250hp-ish & 280lb Torque. So where are you getting that your car is putting out 280 standard?
Or am I totally missing somthing? :wacko:
Awesome cannot measure flywheel figures in 4wd and the 8P's wouldn't run in 2wd (the 8L's will)
As a comparison my 3.2 ran 200bhp ish atw
Thats at the wheels mate, the only true way of testing the power of the car on a dyno, flywheel or clutch power are estimated readings.
TBH i'v hit a brick wall in converting it to flywheel power , as i don't know if transmission losses have been taken into account, and if they haven't how much are they on a Haldex/Quattro which is mostly 2wd , but still has 4wd running gear!
Phantom that pic of yours is my new background. Great looking motor!
If mines running spot on, which I've no reason to doubt looking at previous 3.2 plots at awesome, then I've got roughly 50bhp in losses as an A3 3.2 is booked at 247 fhp. The only difference between my running gear and an S3 is the dsg box.
What was surprising on the day was the difference in standard and remapped S3's. Peak bhp wasn't anywhere near as big as suggested over a standard car. This doesn't mean the car doesn't perform much better than standard as it's the change in area under the curve that makes the difference. But when you are paying for a map under the impression that you're going to get almost a 50/70bhp increase when you're actually only getting 15/20 it would make a lot of people think twice.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I was like :huh:
So for pub talk reasons what is the flywheel BHP on mine and mitch78 cars?
But then you've got the debate about the accuracy of the rollers etc. RR days are only any good for comparing different cars on the same day, same rollers, especially when the figures are repeatable between identical cars.
Before I had my S3 MTM remapped, I had dyno's done and my car was running standard at 282bhp, well over the standard figures Audi had given..
I had before and after plots, I dont know if they were estimated or not, but remember Kim at QSTuning saying that the stock bhp was higher than it should be.
So if the pub talk guess is 280+bhp how does that affect the torque? does that get rounded down too?
If you measurements were taken at the wheels then the readings at the flywheel would be higher or vice versa.
You can use vagcom to take readings from the onboard sensors, this may give you a better idea of the flywheel to wheel losses. When I did some plots on my standard car I had 268 HP and 272 lbft or torque.
My torque comment was aimed at comparing maps, but my fingers didn't get around to typing it!
So the torque on my plot upto 288lbft is right?
As I understand it there are many variables when using rolling roads
Stationary temps (my cooper s needed a big fan blowing into the front to keep the intercooler temps down or the ecu would retard the ignition)
Wheel weight/size/tyre pressures
Actual drivetrain loss (will vary between the same type of cars)
I suggest that Phantom takes his engine out ,put it on a rig and gets clutch bhp output,then puts it back in the car and dyno it again,difference will be drivetrain loss :thumbsup:
The data logging done with vag com before my remap showed 275bhp standard. Seems like they are definitely more than the quoted stock 262bhp
I'm not hung up on flywheel figure , it's just i couldn't even TRY to explain it too the wife or friends who are asking what the car ran!
So what did the GIAC Hammer map produce???
Looks like the Audi marketing department have been "playing" again giving the S3 lower figures on paper to what it really has.
Anyone remember back when the first TT came out it had more than the S3 (8L) even with the same engine then all of a sudden they had the same power after a while....
Any 2.0T's run their cars?
No mate only 4 S3's and 1 3.2 in the 8P's
The revo map on my car produced slightly higher BHP than the "Hammer" map but slightly lower Torque figures.
The real difference is the way the car drives though after a remap, it certainly feels much much more than the indicated 15-20bhp difference.
^^^^^^Hiya mate, spin took me out for a drive ( he offerd me the wheel , but i said no " it's not my car " )
It did feel faster , and more eager when he floored it, but to be honest it wasn't night and day compared to my car when i floor it.
Me and spin were talking about trying another rolling road , to make sure these figures are correct , if they are i don't think i'll bother with a remap untill my warrety runs out!
leon - aka Phantom
Some interesting results there. Like has been said even though the figure arent overly different - +20BHP +40ft lb - Its the driveability that makes all the difference.
And on the subject of RR's, they all seem to produce different figures, so actual figures can be taken with a pich of salt - but comparing mapped to stock is very important - are there any actual prinouts/ploting graphs comparing this?
I did some testing myself on the drive back (turning Revo on and off with the Revo select device) and this IMO confirmed it was worth every penny paid for it.
To be honest I was expecting a little more from the GIAC map in terms of numbers on the rollers. I would be happy to attend a different RR with you guys to compare :icon_thumright:
Good to meet you all
Are you gonna scan your plot up Lee?
Do you know the results of the other S3 , the red one? Louay? i had gone by that point.
Agreed. A mapped S3 should feel night and day. A mapped 225bhp TT feels night and day so should a new S3...
^^^^^^^I hear what your saying spin , and thats why i said i would/will like to go on another rolling road with you to get a second opinion on these figures.
I was all set to get the GIAC remap put on my car after you blew us all away, but it didn't turn out like that , so if the runs were correct ( still willing to go somewhere else with you ) then i have to way up the options.
Really interested to see what another set of rollers say guys. As I am changing my mind day to day on whether to go GIAC Hammer or go with Revo again when I get my Ed30..
Aren't the most accurate rolling roads the ones where they machine goes straight to the hub?
Figures aside, i'd urge you to actually drive a car with switchable settings to get a feel for it yourself. (You're welcome for a go in mine)
Infact who cares about figures - anyone up for a 1/4 Mile session at Santa Pod?