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  1. #1
    DPF

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    DPF Problems on 170

    I had an A3 two litre turbo Diesel and it was the best car I ever had. When my wife had a baby in July, a three door car was no longer practical, and I part exchanged it for a red one-year old Audi A4 Avant two litre turbo Diesel (170 engine) with cream leather seats, walnut trim and gear knob, and electric sliding sun roof.

    The car cost slightly under 20,000, and the salesman at Poole Audi didn't mention potential problems with the DPF.

    Since then the DPF 'information light' (not 'warning light'!) has come on three times shortly after the car has done long runs on motorways and dual carriageways. I've been told that it can come on after multiple urban trips, and when I told the Audi technician about it coming on after long runs, he said that it can happen after those too.

    There are times when I may do 1,000 miles in a few days, and other times when we'll only do short urban journeys for a week. Regardless of the fact that the information light has come on after long journeys, if I'd known that the car isn't suitable for short urban journeys, I wouldn't have bought it. The Audi technicians have told me that my 'driving profile' is wrong for this particular car, which needs to be driven on fast journeys regularly for the DPF to regenerate itself. I find this un-acceptable, and think that I've been sold a car that is legally unfit for purpose.

    What concerns me is that after the warranty has expired, it'll be me who pays for the car to go into an Audi dealer to have the DPF regenerated. I've tried doing what they say in the leaflets, eg driving the car at 2,000 rpm for twenty minutes, but it didn't work. I think it's unacceptable that one should have to do this anyway.

    The Audi customer helpline tells me that Poole Audi should have informed me about the potential DPF problems, and say this is a matter between me and Poole Audi. I've asked Poole Audi for my money back, but they want to replace the car with another one. The trouble is that most Audis are what I consider boring shades of grey, and very few of them have sun roofs. I can't see why I should take a car that I wouldn't have chosen because they knowingly sold me a car that was likely to be faulty. If I'd wanted a car that was unreliable, I could have spent 2,000 on an old one, instead of 20,000!

    I've taken legal advice from a helpline at my insurance company, and was told that Poole Audi didn't break the law when they sold me the car. It was my responsibility to find out about the DPF issue. The advisor also said that if I took the case to court, they would consider it reasonable of Poole Audi to offer me another car of similar value, regardless of model, colour, leather seats, walnut trim, etc. He also thinks that it would be hard to prove the car is legally not fit for purpose as the DPF issue is intermittent.

    Ive been told by two Audi Roadside Assist technicians that the most common reason theyre called out is to regenerate DPFs. They have disabled the DPFs on their vans, because they have similar problems. Brighton Audi have bought cars with 170 engines and DPFs back off disgruntled customers.

    I feel highly unsatisfied with Audi UK's stance on this. Is anyone else in a similar situation, or does anyone have advice? Unless my legal advice was incorrect, the only hope I have of getting fair treatment is the threat of negative publicity. I dont like conflict or complaining, and I dont want to waste time and energy doing it. Id much rather be very happy with the car and telling everyone how brilliant it is.

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  3. #2
    VRStu's Avatar
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    It's not really going to help your case but in order to address your concerns over dealing with the DPF forced regeneration you can do it yourself if you have VAG-COM. If you didn't then it would be pretty much paid for after one or two visits to the dealer.

    The situation with the DPF is quite unacceptable and I do feel for you. I'm not sure about Audi but I have seen leaflets produced by both Skoda and VW which do explain that the DFP equipped car isn't suitable for certain driving profiles.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  4. #3
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    What exactly is the driving profile for DPF then?

    It's not like you have a choice these days as I thought all diesel Audis came with a DPF to meet the Euro 4 emissions standard

  5. #4
    DPF

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    Exactly! Audi say the driving profile required for a 170 engine with a DPF is NOT urban journeys, or short local ones. However, my DPF information light has come on three times after long runs on motorways and duel carriageways. I suppose I'm supposed to use taxis when I want to make local journeys, and save my 20,000 car for long journeys (hoping the DPF light doesn't come on).

  6. #5
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    I wouldn't say the car needs to be driven on 'fast journey's' but you need to attain a reasonable level of exhaust temperature in order to complete the regeneration process. I don't drive a DPF car but I am told by some that do, that it is a little obvious when the car is doing a regeneration. Again it's not the answer but if you could 'tune in' to these situations then perhaps you could limit your problems. Also driving in a lower gear/higher rpm during the regeneration would help to keep temps up.

    I think if it really is causing you such an issue you are going to have to pursue them to either take it back or swap it out for another more suitable car, even if it costs them a little.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  7. #6
    Neutral

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    Quote Originally Posted by VRStu View Post
    I wouldn't say the car needs to be driven on 'fast journey's' but you need to attain a reasonable level of exhaust temperature in order to complete the regeneration process. I don't drive a DPF car but I am told by some that do, that it is a little obvious when the car is doing a regeneration. Again it's not the answer but if you could 'tune in' to these situations then perhaps you could limit your problems. Also driving in a lower gear/higher rpm during the regeneration would help to keep temps up.

    I think if it really is causing you such an issue you are going to have to pursue them to either take it back or swap it out for another more suitable car, even if it costs them a little.
    Well after this morning I'm on my 3rd RAC call out in 3 months. This one after a 280 mile journey from London to Ireland (ie- not a 'school run'). Basically I dont really know what to now. I cant rely on it at all and so I dont know whether its worth owing it anymore. I'm really sad about this as I think it looks awesome, drives awesome, has an awesome feel to it and I generally just love everything about it. Everything except the part where I cant drive it anywhere without it clogging up and requiring an RAC call.

    A real problem seems to be the conflicting advice given to me. The manual says go over 60kph and 2000rpm in 4th or 5th gears. The first RAC guy who came out said to drive at 60mph in 4th gear and get the revs near 3000rpm. He said driving at 70mph stops it regenerating. If that is true then its nice of the manual to not mention this.

    The next time it happened the RAC guy said 60mph was too fast and to do 40-50mph in 4th.

    Today the guy said that was rubbish and just drop it into 3rd, hit 4000rpm and ragg the engine for 10 mins until the exhaust gets hot enough to blast a cloud of smoke out the back.

    This is a terrible bit of new technology and does sod all for the environment seeing as you have to drive in a rubbish gear, burn loads of fuel and then get rescued by another van in the end anyway!

    My advice to anyone considering buying an Audi diesel with a DPF is simple- DONT!


    ps- I've posted this in the A3 forum as well, in case people dont see it here. Let me know if I should merge them/ delete one.
    Last edited by dmal; 21st December 2008 at 20:29.
    New: 08 S3, Bose surround sound, 6-CD Changer, RNS-E.

    Old: 07 A3 2.0 TDI Sport 170 DPF, full leather, 18" 20-spoke rims,

  8. #7
    4th Gear

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    Ive heard lots of problems with this and agree its unacceptable to buy a car and to be told "no short journeys" i mean 20k on a car, a joke.

    So is it just some kind of system which gives off less emmissions?

    What is regeneration? i guess its to do with clearing all the crap out?

    How can vag com to the regeneration then?

    Do audi sell without DPF? if so what would any theoretical benefit be to have it?

    just trying to learn a few things.

  9. #8
    VRStu's Avatar
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    Ben

    The cars had to be fitted with a DPF to meet EU4 regs.

    Broadly speaking the DPF works by stopping the particles in the filter, the in and out pressures of the filter are measured and the level of 'clogging' calculated from that. Once the threshold is met the regeneration process starts which is normally the ECU chucking a load of fuel in to make it burn hot and hence the requirement for higher engine revs to keep the temps up.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  10. #9
    VRStu's Avatar
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    This little video I turned up on google may help -

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhkkng_OoEk
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  11. #10
    4th Gear

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    i see thanks very much for the explanation and the video. much appreciated, always like to learn something new

    I love audi Diesels but this is quite disgraceful if you have to have this system which has flaws. How they can say you have to drive in this way or it wont work is beyond me.

  12. #11
    VRStu's Avatar
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    It's not only Audi, in fact it's not only the Volkswagen Group - it's the bloody meddling EU again.
    Stu.

    A4 3.0 TDi S-Line Quattro, 7 Speed S-Tronic, Quartz Grey, 19" Twin Spoke Alloys, Alcantara with Silver Stitching & Heating, Nav High, B & O, AMI, DAB, Parking Advanced & Rear View Camera, Advanced Keyless Entry, LED Interior Light Pack, Hill Hold Assist, Heated Electric Folding Mirrors, Through Load.

    Previous MY11 S3 Sportback Black Edition, S-Tronic, Ibis White.

  13. #12
    rickquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
    Ive been told by two Audi Roadside Assist technicians that the most common reason theyre called out is to regenerate DPFs. They have disabled the DPFs on their vans, because they have similar problems.
    So, anyone an Audi Tech, how did they do that then? Very interested as I have a VW T5 174 with a dpf..
    Coming back to Audi with an A3 Tdi Sportback Quattro... but the 220bhp T5 was epic....

  14. #13
    Thomas

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    You R not only one - got solution :)

    The car cost slightly under 20,000, and the salesman at Poole Audi didn't mention potential problems with the DPF.

    Since then the DPF 'information light' (not 'warning light'!) has come on three times shortly after the car has done long runs on motorways and dual carriageways. I've been told that it can come on after multiple urban trips, and when I told the Audi technician about it coming on after long runs, he said that it can happen after those too.

    There are times when I may do 1,000 miles in a few days, and other times when we'll only do short urban journeys for a week. Regardless of the fact that the information light has come on after long journeys, if I'd known that the car isn't suitable for short urban journeys, I wouldn't have bought it. The Audi technicians have told me that my 'driving profile' is wrong for this particular car, which needs to be driven on fast journeys regularly for the DPF to regenerate itself. I find this un-acceptable, and think that I've been sold a car that is legally unfit for purpose.

    What concerns me is that after the warranty has expired, it'll be me who pays for the car to go into an Audi dealer to have the DPF regenerated. I've tried doing what they say in the leaflets, eg driving the car at 2,000 rpm for twenty minutes, but it didn't work. I think it's unacceptable that one should have to do this anyway.

    The Audi customer helpline tells me that Poole Audi should have informed me about the potential DPF problems, and say this is a matter between me and Poole Audi. I've asked Poole Audi for my money back, but they want to replace the car with another one. The trouble is that most Audis are what I consider boring shades of grey, and very few of them have sun roofs. I can't see why I should take a car that I wouldn't have chosen because they knowingly sold me a car that was likely to be faulty. If I'd wanted a car that was unreliable, I could have spent 2,000 on an old one, instead of 20,000!

    Hi

    I would like to inform You , that I had the same problem with Audi Dealer
    in London. Everything was briliant at the time of buying my A3 2.0 170 Tdi with DSG gearbox.
    After few days ( not even a week ) of using my new car light came up on dash.Went to dealer to ask what is this , had been told that this engine got something like DPF, and is not under WARRANTY. Also been told about a fact of not driving it in urban traffic , unless over2500 on revcounter ! and they can help me with it . So I had to help myself

    I REMOVED PARTICULATE FILTER , and shut down ERG ( to prevent excesive smoking )
    I spend a few months to find a solution - was not easy DPF got five sensors , and car itself is very clever.
    Since that time car runs as a dream , can drive everywhere everytime , got much better performance, better fuel cons. Basically no problems.

    Any question Guys , fell free to ask me

    Regards Streetracer

    Sorry for gramar mistakes - I'm not British

  15. #14
    rickquattro's Avatar
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    Thomas, the $64,000 question is, how did you crack it?
    Coming back to Audi with an A3 Tdi Sportback Quattro... but the 220bhp T5 was epic....

  16. #15
    Thomas

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    Hi Ricky Boy

    What i did as a first step , I took Dpf out cut it on 3/4 way round and using drill I removed charcol ( filter ) and then I weld it together and put back. Car had been running perfectlly...
    As a next step I ordered milltek cut down pipe for 2.0 Tdi 140Bhp , drill three holes ( one for Lambda Sensor , and two for temp.sensors (before and after DPF) , and replaced "Dpf can" with it.
    I didin't put pressures pipes back - is not nessesary - leave this sensor without connecting pipes into it - car will notice that is no different in pressure , so DPF is clean ! It does work - I have done 10000miles now driving like this.
    Dyno Shown 15Bhp more after this mode done - U can hear turbocharger spin quicker, whisling louder , and U get better throtle respond.
    I have also put bigger vacum silicon hose from N75 valve (boost pressure sensor) to Actuator ( was 3mm originally , and i got 5mm now )

    At the moment I'm working on MAF sensor (mas air flow) and on APS (absolute pressure sensor) - Why ??
    I ordered racing N75K valve from US ( Seat used it in Leon 2.0tdi WWRC Edition )
    to lift boost up to 21-22psi - and those sensors are bringing a foult on as overboost.
    I need few more days to get it solved , and I getting closer to the end.

    You can also get better fuel pump , and bigger injectors (also from Seat Lim.Edition).
    But be prepare that UR car will smoke much more .
    Any questions ask

    Regards

  17. #16
    rickquattro's Avatar
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    Thanks for this, will be looking into this mod on my van...
    Coming back to Audi with an A3 Tdi Sportback Quattro... but the 220bhp T5 was epic....

  18. #17
    Reverse Gear

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    gooday thomas just reading your artickle on how you modified your dpf I have suzuki grand vitara 1.9 renault deisel it runs that hot it melts the grease in the front uni on the front tailshaft so I was thinking about doing what you have already done succesfully but just a couple of questions if I take the guts out of the dpf completly and put it together again leave the hoses the way they are I should get the same result as you have done this thing stinks to high hell as well but apart from this problem I have no complaints I have been on the net looking for a solution to this problem for months reading your blog was like a breath of fresh air no one seems to give a toss over here sometimes I wish it was only a busride home (kent ) just to keep up with all the goss many thanks mate for your time talk to you soon Peter

  19. #18
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    Hey guys, i know this is an old post but i would like for you to hear me out. I have copied and pasted this of which i posted on other forums:


    Hey all,

    Firstly i just want you all to know that i own a Mazda 6 2.0tdi 2008+, my reason for signing up on this forum aswell as many other manufacturer forums is that i want to address the whole DPF issues to governing agencies.

    I too have suffered problems with the DPF system fitted in my Mazda 6 Diesel, to cut the post short otherwise i could write on this topic for a long time my engine over-ran (speeding up on its own accord) which was a result of the DPF failing to regenerate but in my case no warnings were displayed and Mazda are making hundreds of us Mazda drivers pay for their poor design.

    I purchased the car from new and only had the car 10 months until this happened, every step of the way even if the car is under warranty Mazda are refusing to accept any liability. From August 2009 my car has been sitting on my drive, me and my family are refusing to drive it and i cannot reject the car even under the sales of good act because they claim that there is not an inherant problem. When i purchased the car i did not sign any papers nor was there any warnings in the brochure to explain how the DPF system works but all they have is 2 small parts in the handbook explaining what you should do if the light comes on.

    They said i need a service to fix the problem but i refused because of how dangerous the situation i was in, the result i found out was because the oil levels dramatically increased and this was due to a diesel contamination, tests showed a 62% diesel/oil mix in the engine oil which is WRONG! again to reflect, no warning lights showed.

    The DPF operates by using a small amount of fuel mixed into the oil to burn the soot off, every successful regeneration should mean all is clear and the diesel would have gone through the oil and there would be no need to check the oil every time you want to use the car. In my case, my oil rose so much that my engine is damaged and now i have no option but to fight Mazda which i am doing so and have been with my solicitor for 1 year now because Mazda consistently refuse to accept they are in the wrong even though after 1 year of the Mazda 6 2.0d new design they introduced the same shape mazda but a 2.2d engine with an improved DPF system.

    To cut this where it is, i have setup a campaign site located at: www.mazda-campaign.co.uk, if you have had similar problems with your DPF which it looks like you have i have just this minute setup www.dpfcampaign.co.uk which should be up and running in a day or two with a forum, until then even though you are not Mazda drivers any support would be GREAT! as watchdog have taken notice of my campaign and the more supporters i have whether it be to change the DPF systems or just supporting what i am doing the more notice media and governing agencies take notice.

    Any support would be greatly appreciated and if i can help you guys in any way possible, please do let me know!

    Thank You,

    Mehdi - www.mazda-campaign.co.uk / www.dpfcampaign.co.uk



    Last edited by dpfcampaign; 20th July 2010 at 22:15.

 

 

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