Am taking the plunge tomorrow to get Turbochip to do the business. Claim 210hp. Will advise results.
2.5TDi V6 quattro Sport 180hp Turbochip
- Thread starter fjtwelve
- Start date
mikeA2B
Registered User
The installation was done by Trevor who is Turbochip's agent in Dumfries. Initially we hoped he could plug in to the Engine Management Unit via the trailing socket under the steering wheel but the laptop could not read the ID on the system. I left the car with him and he gave me his was 130 now 185hp Vectra TDi as a runabout for the day. He removed the chip from the car (real pain to get at one of the case retaining bolts at the back of the EMU case) and downloaded the files. These were emailed to Denmark (Turbochip HO) and new set of files sent back (this is Saturday aftrenoon by the way). Chip rewritten and reinstalled. Pain? £470.
I've only managed a couple of hundred miles since Saturday. Initially as I said to Trevor it doesn't feel much different to start with (was he disappointed?!). However it's bit like my Yamaha FJ1200, very smooth with no obvious surge in torque like it used to have. However it is more deceptive than it was ie you are thinking this isn't very quick, and then look at the speedo and find you're doing 80. Its better off the line than it was, there used to be a real hole from tickover to 1500 which has now effectively disappeared in the bottom 3 gears. It revs very fast in the bottom 3 gears. I inadvertently found out there seems to be a rev limiter (fuel cut off?) at around 5500. There's a noticeable power rush starting at around 2800-3000rpm which is noticeable in the top 3 gears, in the bottom 3 gears its revving so fast you don't notice the extra.
Top speed seems unimproved. I got an indicated 135 on the flat straight M74 near Lockerbie prior to the chip. Coming back off Beattock Summit on Saturday night it ran up to 125 easily enough but slowly got to maybe 131-132. The motorway there becomes quite twisty at this speed so maybe not a fair comparison. We'll have another go on the flat when the opportunity arises.
It will now dawdle along at 800rpm tickover in 5th and 1000rpm in 6th. If you feed the throttle in carefully it will actually pick up albeit slowly from 1000rpm in 5th and 6th.
Overall, "smooth" is the word.
The other issue I wanted to try and improve was fuel consumption, but it's too early to tell yet. I topped off the tank immediately after getting the chip, but the high speed 20 miles on Saturday night will have distorted the figures. My journey to work is a mixture of A and B roads and motorway and will give a real "extra urban" figure. Like the 2 comments I made about my FJ12, "have trouble keeping it below 70" and "fuel economy could be better" will probably be repeated and obviously one explains the other.
Driving cross country to work this morning was really enjoyable. I want to go out and drive it some more, which probably says more than all the detail above. The grin factor is probably worth half the cost.
I'll post more info as I get it. I am waiting for the power and torque curves supplied by Turbochip. If anyone knows where there's a rolling road that will take quattros within a reasonable distance i will consider taking the car along if the price is reasonable.
I've only managed a couple of hundred miles since Saturday. Initially as I said to Trevor it doesn't feel much different to start with (was he disappointed?!). However it's bit like my Yamaha FJ1200, very smooth with no obvious surge in torque like it used to have. However it is more deceptive than it was ie you are thinking this isn't very quick, and then look at the speedo and find you're doing 80. Its better off the line than it was, there used to be a real hole from tickover to 1500 which has now effectively disappeared in the bottom 3 gears. It revs very fast in the bottom 3 gears. I inadvertently found out there seems to be a rev limiter (fuel cut off?) at around 5500. There's a noticeable power rush starting at around 2800-3000rpm which is noticeable in the top 3 gears, in the bottom 3 gears its revving so fast you don't notice the extra.
Top speed seems unimproved. I got an indicated 135 on the flat straight M74 near Lockerbie prior to the chip. Coming back off Beattock Summit on Saturday night it ran up to 125 easily enough but slowly got to maybe 131-132. The motorway there becomes quite twisty at this speed so maybe not a fair comparison. We'll have another go on the flat when the opportunity arises.
It will now dawdle along at 800rpm tickover in 5th and 1000rpm in 6th. If you feed the throttle in carefully it will actually pick up albeit slowly from 1000rpm in 5th and 6th.
Overall, "smooth" is the word.
The other issue I wanted to try and improve was fuel consumption, but it's too early to tell yet. I topped off the tank immediately after getting the chip, but the high speed 20 miles on Saturday night will have distorted the figures. My journey to work is a mixture of A and B roads and motorway and will give a real "extra urban" figure. Like the 2 comments I made about my FJ12, "have trouble keeping it below 70" and "fuel economy could be better" will probably be repeated and obviously one explains the other.
Driving cross country to work this morning was really enjoyable. I want to go out and drive it some more, which probably says more than all the detail above. The grin factor is probably worth half the cost.
I'll post more info as I get it. I am waiting for the power and torque curves supplied by Turbochip. If anyone knows where there's a rolling road that will take quattros within a reasonable distance i will consider taking the car along if the price is reasonable.
A couple of other notes.
To add to the thread title, the car is a June 2001 A6 Avant.
My ECU was described as "EDC15". If you use Turbochip their files for your system may actually be logged in as belonging to a different car but as with many items in modern cars the same kit is fitted in different cars.
Trevor mentioned that on several previous cars he had chipped, including his Vectra, the system seemed to bed in over 2-3000miles. Whether there is some "fuzzy logic" in there i'm not sure, but we'll see.
He has saved the original chip files so if I need to go back to the original settings for any reason then they are still available.
To add to the thread title, the car is a June 2001 A6 Avant.
My ECU was described as "EDC15". If you use Turbochip their files for your system may actually be logged in as belonging to a different car but as with many items in modern cars the same kit is fitted in different cars.
Trevor mentioned that on several previous cars he had chipped, including his Vectra, the system seemed to bed in over 2-3000miles. Whether there is some "fuzzy logic" in there i'm not sure, but we'll see.
He has saved the original chip files so if I need to go back to the original settings for any reason then they are still available.
mikeA2B
Registered User
When the power kicks in do you feel any vibration or clutch slip?
I put a tuning box on my A4 and it didnt take to it too well.
I put a tuning box on my A4 and it didnt take to it too well.
No. The engine is smoother than it was. I'm still exploring it at the moment, maybe if i give it more stick i can provoke clutch slip. Not sure how, it revs off the top of the redline in 1 2 and 3 and i haven't noticed a problem yet.
1000miles down the line. No clutch slip. mpg settled at 32mpg on commuting 20%m'way, 70%single track A road, 10% B road, DIS ave speed 50+. Still no charts from Turbochip yet.
mikeA2B
Registered User
Sounds good martin, I have taken the plunge with ODB tuning, booked in on the 7th Feb, just before I goes to germany in it!!
arthurfuxake
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Still waiting for a couple of graphs from Turbochip. I did not investigate ODB, what are they claiming they can do? Do ODB have a rolling road that takes quattros? If so where are they?
mikeA2B
Registered User
I read a few good threads on other forums about OBD tuning here's the website, check out the reviews here;
http://www.mini2tuning.co.uk/35445/35446.html
http://www.mini2tuning.co.uk/35445/35446.html
mikeA2B
Registered User
As far as I know, the max you can tune a 2.5 TDI V6 is to about 210ps, the pump wont give you any more than that.
210 is what Turbochip claim, which is why I want to see the graphs and then get it on a set of rollers at some point. I'm not convinced yet, as with an extra 30hp I would have expected more top end speed unless they have peaked it earlier than stock. Mind you it is -5 to -10c up here at the moment so I am not trying any flat out runs just at the moment
mikeA2B
Registered User
still good for 155+mph I reckon martin /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I had a link somewhere for a 2.5TDI V6 doing 261km/h, / off the clock, so its not all bad m8!
In that case there is somrthing definitely not right. I am going to go back to Turbochip and get it checked out.
arthurfuxake
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Hey Mike, how did it go yesterday? Did they have a 4wd rolling road? What are your initial thoughts?
mikeA2B
Registered User
Hi Lon,
Yup got it done, he does it at his house, he has a large garage and a large conservatory full of car magazines to wait in but no rolling road, but first impressions are good though!
He Vag-Commed my car first to clear any faults, the rest was done in secrecy so I suppose its easy to do if you know!
He usually tunes BMW Minis but he can tune almost any modern car with an ODB port, he adjust's fuel pump and other settings in the ECU but not to 'full on' like a tuning box does.
I had to travel from Manchester to his place in Birmingham, which was fine as I had a job to go to there and then off to leicester so most of yesterday was on motorways oh and the heavily scamera'd A628 (woodhead pass)
One thing I noticed straight away was the reduced turbo lag time, if your 2.5TDI (unchipped) is like mine I have a bit of a delay when setting off in 2nd at low speed, now no problem, accellerates straight away - and no smoke!
60-***mph time feels quicker.
There's only a slight rumble from the rear diff when I travelling uphill, 6th gear 40mph, (the tuning box made my diff rumble when hard accellerating at low speed)
I dont think the ODB tune gives the same power as a tuning box but the car feels better to drive than before, a lot smoother where you can travel in at low speeds in higher gears without having to wait for the turbo to kick in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
So up to now, all seems well!
Yup got it done, he does it at his house, he has a large garage and a large conservatory full of car magazines to wait in but no rolling road, but first impressions are good though!
He Vag-Commed my car first to clear any faults, the rest was done in secrecy so I suppose its easy to do if you know!
He usually tunes BMW Minis but he can tune almost any modern car with an ODB port, he adjust's fuel pump and other settings in the ECU but not to 'full on' like a tuning box does.
I had to travel from Manchester to his place in Birmingham, which was fine as I had a job to go to there and then off to leicester so most of yesterday was on motorways oh and the heavily scamera'd A628 (woodhead pass)
One thing I noticed straight away was the reduced turbo lag time, if your 2.5TDI (unchipped) is like mine I have a bit of a delay when setting off in 2nd at low speed, now no problem, accellerates straight away - and no smoke!
60-***mph time feels quicker.
There's only a slight rumble from the rear diff when I travelling uphill, 6th gear 40mph, (the tuning box made my diff rumble when hard accellerating at low speed)
I dont think the ODB tune gives the same power as a tuning box but the car feels better to drive than before, a lot smoother where you can travel in at low speeds in higher gears without having to wait for the turbo to kick in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
So up to now, all seems well!
No news from Turbochip. I have found a relatively local rolling road so after I get paid this month I shall book in and see what I've actually got for my money. Or not as the case may be....
So apart from getting charged £30 for a bottle of milk, how did you get on with your continental thrash tour with the extra 30hp?
I was chased into work by my mate in his Lexus IS200 last week, his Road Angel (well he has just got his licence back after being done for 128 oops)fell off it's mounting during the course of events and he was very complimentary about the performance. Says no black smoke at any point even when flooring it and my traction control works better than his (he got stranded by ignition cut out or whatever Lexus use at a junction while I disappeared up the road). I also convoyed the boys to rugby yesterday where my mate who works for VW tried to leave me behind in his Golf GTI and failed.
I was chased into work by my mate in his Lexus IS200 last week, his Road Angel (well he has just got his licence back after being done for 128 oops)fell off it's mounting during the course of events and he was very complimentary about the performance. Says no black smoke at any point even when flooring it and my traction control works better than his (he got stranded by ignition cut out or whatever Lexus use at a junction while I disappeared up the road). I also convoyed the boys to rugby yesterday where my mate who works for VW tried to leave me behind in his Golf GTI and failed.
mikeA2B
Registered User
Brill Martin, apart from a couple of blown bulbs no problems.
The car seems to have more power for longer up the rev range, the engine sound a little less refined but to be honest it was minus 5 most of the time and its not been too warm over here either but performance wise i'd say its better than before, accelleration from 60-100 is improved and I managed to get her up to 136mph with more to go (not in UK) before realising the car really does need an RS4 rear stabiliser kit! this was with 4 bodies, full tank and a boot packed to the brim.
Ecomony wise it cost me about £150 (in euros and a bit of uk fuel) to do a 1600 mile round trip travelling at 80+
The car seems to have more power for longer up the rev range, the engine sound a little less refined but to be honest it was minus 5 most of the time and its not been too warm over here either but performance wise i'd say its better than before, accelleration from 60-100 is improved and I managed to get her up to 136mph with more to go (not in UK) before realising the car really does need an RS4 rear stabiliser kit! this was with 4 bodies, full tank and a boot packed to the brim.
Ecomony wise it cost me about £150 (in euros and a bit of uk fuel) to do a 1600 mile round trip travelling at 80+
Aaargghhhh billhooks just suffered the dreaded "sudden loss of power" yesterday. Very erratic running, but by the time i got to work Nissan Micras were giving me the eat my dust treatment, just great. Thought i wasn't going to get home in the evening at one point then 100mph with a rush, lots of smoke. Looking for the obvious problems at home (10pm, - 8C, dark, luvverly) discovered the air filter was unbelieveably knackered, so much for the " oh yes sir we gave a service before we sold it to you" in December. Maybe thats why it was struggling at the top end. Was reluctant to start this morning, took 8 miles to get up to 70 but slowly continued to improve after that. Replaced the air filter at lunchtime with a Hengst for an unbelievable £9.55. Did I do wrong or just get lucky? Disconnected the battery for 5 mins and reconnected to see if any electronics would reset themselves, no change. Spoke to my garage, they think it might be a blocked fuel filter. I should be so lucky. How many sensors are there on a V6 Tdi? Booked in for Wednesday, we shall see.
mikeA2B
Registered User
Could it be the MAF sensor, a common fault apparently, or maybe the ECU in limp mode, anyone near you with VAGCOM to give the car a quick scan?
After 3 years and 125000 miles with my Passat 1.9tdi and another 50000 miles with my wife's A4 tdi i know lots of stories about MAFs etc but now i need to find out where all the widgets are on the V6. I thought I'd start with the cheap and easy stuff first. I'll make a few posts for a Vagcom tho' , thought about that at the weekend. It's the way the power is coming and going at the moment that's throwing me, i haven't had this before. I was wondering if there's faulty throttle/accelerator connection because sometimes it'll run ok on cruise control but not using the right foot. I'll keep you posted.
mikeA2B
Registered User
Mike you are on the case the garage reckon it's the MAF too so theres one coming on Friday. Symptoms are completely unlike my Passat MAF failure, we learn something every day. Lets hope its sorted as we are heading south for a 500mile round trip this weekend, and I'm going to the rolling road session at Star the following weekend.
Just to put the lid on it my wifes A4 has just gone down with the same problem, it's going in Friday and having driven it to work today I'm fairly sure thats the MAF too.
Just to put the lid on it my wifes A4 has just gone down with the same problem, it's going in Friday and having driven it to work today I'm fairly sure thats the MAF too.
And it's not the MAF. One sparkly new exchange MAF fitted on Friday night has made no difference. I had all the covers off the engine, checked all the obvious connections vacumn pipes and the like and can't find anything obviously wrong.
Still did the 500 odd mile mostly motorway trip this weekend. It'll sit at 80 on the cruise no problem, but slow for the 50 limit for the roadworks and try to accelerate away afterwards and 4 times out of 5 nothing happens for a mile or two. I apologise to anyone who was stuck behind me at the time wondering / cursing why i was going so slowly. When it will accelerate it'll run up to , er, officer, 3 figure speeds shall we say, no problem. Interestingly if I put my foot flat on the floor when the problem is occurring, and watch the instant fuel economy read out, there is no change in the reading. I therefore suspect the throttle is not talking to the EMU properly. I forsee an evening upside down in the drivers footwell looking for bad connections coming up once i can get the car into the drive (slight problem with snow at the moment).
The only good thing coming out of this at the moment is the fuel economy has improved because i am going so much slower.
Still did the 500 odd mile mostly motorway trip this weekend. It'll sit at 80 on the cruise no problem, but slow for the 50 limit for the roadworks and try to accelerate away afterwards and 4 times out of 5 nothing happens for a mile or two. I apologise to anyone who was stuck behind me at the time wondering / cursing why i was going so slowly. When it will accelerate it'll run up to , er, officer, 3 figure speeds shall we say, no problem. Interestingly if I put my foot flat on the floor when the problem is occurring, and watch the instant fuel economy read out, there is no change in the reading. I therefore suspect the throttle is not talking to the EMU properly. I forsee an evening upside down in the drivers footwell looking for bad connections coming up once i can get the car into the drive (slight problem with snow at the moment).
The only good thing coming out of this at the moment is the fuel economy has improved because i am going so much slower.
mikeA2B
Registered User
You could do with getting the car checked with vag-com Martin, sounds like a sensor somewhere if it isn't the MAF.
auroan
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I suspect your re-map may have gone dodgey or the ecu is now possibly damaged and showing intermittent signs of failure ?
Had the car checked at Autovolks in Carlisle this morning. They have a Bosch checking system not VAGCOM. This threw a fault code saying manifold boost pressure was low and erratic. They think it may be a sensor on or near the intercooler. Any offers anyone?
We also found that oil is weeping from the middle and front injector where it goes into the cam cover on the offside of the engine. Is this likely to be just the seal or something worse? Please can someone explain what the pipes are that run from one injector to the next ?
This explains why i didn't go to the rolling road session at Star Performance. Am I grumpy? Oh yes. I came out of the house this morning to set off for Carlisle and had to change a flat on my wife's A4 and then found a bottle of water had leaked into nmy passenger footwell.
We also found that oil is weeping from the middle and front injector where it goes into the cam cover on the offside of the engine. Is this likely to be just the seal or something worse? Please can someone explain what the pipes are that run from one injector to the next ?
This explains why i didn't go to the rolling road session at Star Performance. Am I grumpy? Oh yes. I came out of the house this morning to set off for Carlisle and had to change a flat on my wife's A4 and then found a bottle of water had leaked into nmy passenger footwell.
mikeA2B
Registered User
'Please can someone explain what the pipes are that run from one injector to the next '
Think these pipes keep all injectors primed up Martin, you find they weep a little on the older engines, however, if they are drawing in air this could be a problem but I think you got a clogged / faulty sensor or valve somwhere m8.
Think these pipes keep all injectors primed up Martin, you find they weep a little on the older engines, however, if they are drawing in air this could be a problem but I think you got a clogged / faulty sensor or valve somwhere m8.
Thanks. If that is the case then its oil getting past the seal around the injector I think, as the oil has no hint of a diesel smell in it.
The exact fault code description was "023F Intake manifold pressure below limits". I've had all the air box out, crawled all over the top of the engine, can't find any leaks anywhere. Suppose the next thing is to get to the underside and check all the air pipework where it runs under the engine. Also tried to remove the EGR for check and clean because there is a sooty mark on the maniflod next to it, but one of the bolts is seized. Happy days.
The exact fault code description was "023F Intake manifold pressure below limits". I've had all the air box out, crawled all over the top of the engine, can't find any leaks anywhere. Suppose the next thing is to get to the underside and check all the air pipework where it runs under the engine. Also tried to remove the EGR for check and clean because there is a sooty mark on the maniflod next to it, but one of the bolts is seized. Happy days.
mikeA2B
Registered User
This EGR valve keeps popping up everywhere! although it causes a smoke problem it can affect turbo boost and emissions etc and could be the reason for -Intake manifold pressure below limits, for the sake of it it might be worth taking the EGR out for a clean at least, theres a thread somewhere on modding it to stop it playing up.
Hope u sort it
Hope u sort it
Yeah, I have the t-shirt for EGR valve works from my previous Passat. Unfortunately as the bolt is seized I can't get the bleedin thing out at the moment. I'll try again after soaking it in penetrating oil every night this week.
Next "exciting" instalment is that on Monday I'm taking the car back to the people I bought it from so they can get their "never failed to sort a problem" mechanic to look at it. So on Monday I drive to Edinburgh, then to London, then to Slough, on Tuesday all day on a course, back to London, and back to Edinburgh.
Next "exciting" instalment is that on Monday I'm taking the car back to the people I bought it from so they can get their "never failed to sort a problem" mechanic to look at it. So on Monday I drive to Edinburgh, then to London, then to Slough, on Tuesday all day on a course, back to London, and back to Edinburgh.
Just to put the lid on it I now have a small but distinct knocking noise from the front nearside which a pound to a pinch of /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/swear.gif is the CV joint. Audis, who'd have one??
Normal service has been resumed. It was the boost control valve (sits on the turbo just to the offside of the EGR). The Audidiesel.com mechanic diagnosed and fixed this inside 2 hours. He has replaced the valve and also repositioned the twisted oil seal around the injectors that was causing the oil leak. Apparently the EGR is fine, the small sooty mark next to it is usual.
It's worth mentioning at this point that, although I have done just under 10,000 miles since I bought the car, Audidiesel.com who sold me the car have paid for this to be fixed, as well as previously paying for a wheel bearing that failed. No quibbles at any point. It would appear that they have a specialist mechanic who does know his stuff. They offer servicing as well as sales. I recommend them and him to you.
So after a never ending plod down the A1 on Monday (36mpg the only benefit) we had a sprightly trip back last night up the M6 where I nearly got the speedo officially calibrated at 1.30am where 2 miles from home I caught up with Captain Plod doing 60 and I was allegedly doing er140. Sorry officer but 700 miles at 80 on the cruise control had done my head in. It still won't go past 140 so I stilll need to find out where the Turbochip has boosted the power (see above about a month ago). Now where did I put Star Performance's number?
The CV joint noise is getting worse, but as this has only just appeared (rather than the power problem that has been going for a while) I will be dealing with this myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
It's worth mentioning at this point that, although I have done just under 10,000 miles since I bought the car, Audidiesel.com who sold me the car have paid for this to be fixed, as well as previously paying for a wheel bearing that failed. No quibbles at any point. It would appear that they have a specialist mechanic who does know his stuff. They offer servicing as well as sales. I recommend them and him to you.
So after a never ending plod down the A1 on Monday (36mpg the only benefit) we had a sprightly trip back last night up the M6 where I nearly got the speedo officially calibrated at 1.30am where 2 miles from home I caught up with Captain Plod doing 60 and I was allegedly doing er140. Sorry officer but 700 miles at 80 on the cruise control had done my head in. It still won't go past 140 so I stilll need to find out where the Turbochip has boosted the power (see above about a month ago). Now where did I put Star Performance's number?
The CV joint noise is getting worse, but as this has only just appeared (rather than the power problem that has been going for a while) I will be dealing with this myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
New front tyres and alignment tomorrow, getting the CV joint done on Friday. Apart from emptying the overdraft this should sort the wobbly handling and rumbling turns.
Had the same prob as fjtwelve..... sudden loss of power as I was steaming away from some chav in his liitle corsa or something.... bit embarrasing, gots loads of distance on him as he was up my ar*e and then suddenly loads of black smoke and no power... got home by disconnecting the maf so it ran in limp mode, made it alot smoother and no smokey....
Turn out that I had popped off an intercooler hose..... bit distressing.... you know the really awkeward one to get to under the front bumper.... well, after cutting my hands to bits, car back on track and boost restored....
Turn out that I had popped off an intercooler hose..... bit distressing.... you know the really awkeward one to get to under the front bumper.... well, after cutting my hands to bits, car back on track and boost restored....
You have my sympathies getting to that hose, I can't even see half of mine, let alone work on it.
CV joint fixed for £149 fitted, but Kwikfit balance weight fell off the nearside front, and I am sure that they did not do the tracking properly as I am stilll getting vibes and a nasty judder under braking.
Have found that the car runs quicker now the temperature is a bit warmer. Anything around 14C outside makes a difference especially at the top end. Fuel economy seems to be creeping up too, have averaged 33.2 since I got it, but cruising to Brum and back last week at about 90 returned just under 35.
CV joint fixed for £149 fitted, but Kwikfit balance weight fell off the nearside front, and I am sure that they did not do the tracking properly as I am stilll getting vibes and a nasty judder under braking.
Have found that the car runs quicker now the temperature is a bit warmer. Anything around 14C outside makes a difference especially at the top end. Fuel economy seems to be creeping up too, have averaged 33.2 since I got it, but cruising to Brum and back last week at about 90 returned just under 35.
mikeA2B
Registered User
