Chris NottEM Tuning
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  1. #1
    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Question What to use and why on darker metallic finishes

    Compared to darker solid colours, darker metallic and pearlescent finishes are much more forgiving in terms of hiding minor defects such as marring and fine swirl marks. A further benefit of owning a car with metallic or pearlescent paint is that you end up with a car that looks different depending on the light. For example, in dull, cloudy conditions the flake in the paint will almost disappear, and the car will essentially take on the appearance of a solid finish, meaning you can enjoy great depth and wetness. However, as soon as the sun comes out and catches the flake, the look of the paint is often transformed, with depth and wetness giving way to a sparkling shine.

    Given the above characteristics, it is possible to magnify these effects somewhat, depending on product choice. Thus, this guide offers three recommended routes to go down if you have dark metallic or pearlescent paint. The first option offers an intensely reflective shine that maximises the appearance of metallic or pearlescent flakes at the expense of a little wetness and warmth. The second option offers a dripping wet finish whatever the weather is doing, whilst still allowing the flake to sparkle when the sun is out. The third option offers a combination of options one and two, giving a nice wet looking finish with good reflectivity and no ill effect on the flake; this may seem less attractive than the first two options, but in reality its the easiest system to apply, which counts for a lot when time is in short supply.

    At this stage there is one more thing worth mentioning; in our experience, lower quality carnauba waxes tend to mute metallic and pearlescent flakes, limiting the sparkle on sunny days, and for this reason they are best avoided. The last thing you want to do with a metallic or pearlescent finish is mute the flake, otherwise whats the point in having it?!

    Option 1 Maximum flake enhancement

    Jeffs Werkstatt Acrylic Kit

    For an intensely reflective, wet looking shine with massive flake pop when the sun comes out, we recommend the Jeffs Werkstatt Acrylic Kit. This kit comes with all of the products, applicator pads and buffing towels required to achieve the desired finish, and is straightforward to use. The Prime Acrylic basecoat is a deep paint cleanser that also lays down a tough initial coat of protection; you should use it once every six months after claying (it serves as a very light finishing polish to further cleanse the paint). Acrylic Jett Trigger is a pure spray sealant that should be used to add more gloss and durable protection every 4-12 weeks; the more layers you build up, the better the finish will get. The Acrylic Glos is a quick detailer, and can be used to help boost gloss and lubricate when drying off after washing, and to loosen the residues of Prime and Trigger if you find them hard to remove. Here are some examples of the finish this system gives on metallic and pearlescent finishes...











    Option 2 Maximum wetness and gloss

    Poorboys Black Hole Glaze topped with Raceglaze '55'

    For maximum wetness and gloss whatever the weather is doing, and absolutely no muting of the flake, Poorboys Black Hole Glaze topped with Raceglaze '55' is a killer combination. Poorboys Black Hole Glaze is a superb easy to use preparatory product that cleanses and glazes in a single step, using a blend of naturally derived oils and gloss enhancers. It has excellent filling power, meaning it effectively hides marring and fine swirls. Raceglaze Signature Series '55' contains 55% pure Brazilian No.1 white carnauba by volume, is easy to apply by hand or foam pad, and should be buffed off using a plush microfibre towel. Aimed at professional detailers and enthusiasts who want a spectacular finish that will last for in excess of four months at a time, this premium wax has already been very well received on the major UK car care and detailing forums. It is no mystery why this is so, as the finish it delivers is simply stunning, and we are sure it is destined to become a major rival to more established premium wax products costing significantly more.
    Here is an example of the finish this system gives on metallic and pearlescent finishes...











    Option 3 Good wetness, good flake pop, easiest to use

    Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish topped with Blackfire Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection

    (for even more wetness, top again with Blackfire Midnight Sun Paste Wax)

    For a nice wet looking finish with good reflectivity and no ill effect on the flake whatsoever then the Blackfire system is well worth looking at, particularly if you have little time for car care and want a very easy set of products to use. Gloss Enhancing Polish is a combined finishing polish and glaze, and does exactly what it says on the tin! It has just enough cut to remove marring and its glazing oils are able to effectively mask fine swirls. Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection is a synthetic sealant that utilises the latest crystal super-polymer developed by Wacker-Chemie of Germany. The unique crystal structure of this polymer refracts light in a similar way to a diamond, and leaves a finish with a level of liquidity very close to that given by a high quality carnauba wax. It wipes on and off very easily, is exceptionally water repellent, and offers a high level of UV protection. For an even wetter looking finish with a little less reflectivity, add a top coat of Midnight Sun Paste Wax; this unique wax features the same crystal super-polymer built directly into the wax matrix, meaning it bonds perfectly to Wet Diamond All Finish Paint Protection. Here is an example of the finish this system gives on metallic and pearlescent finishes...











    Last edited by WX51TXR; 29th August 2008 at 11:43.

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  3. #2
    mwarrey's Avatar
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    Hi, I have an azure blue s4. I have been using Swissol Cleanses and wax for the past few years and I have been very happy with the results. I am just about to run out of the swissol products and am aware that they have changed the formulas from the ones I have now and the feedback I have had is that they are "not as good" as they used to be. (The cleaner is no way near as good)

    I am considering changing to the Zymol HD cleanse and Carbon wax but I am intersted in the menzerna ranges. I do have some light swirl that I would like to have a go at correcting but am holding back from buying a machine polisher until the UDM is available. So, finally, my question is where would the menzerna fit in. Obviously I would use the intensive one to start with but at which stage would the final finish ones be used ?

  4. #3
    jamiekip
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    Nice work rich - looking forward to the one for blue cars!!!

  5. #4
    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamiekip
    Nice work rich - looking forward to the one for blue cars!!!
    Next on my list, sometime next week with a little luck.

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mwarrey
    Hi, I have an azure blue s4. I have been using Swissol Cleanses and wax for the past few years and I have been very happy with the results. I am just about to run out of the swissol products and am aware that they have changed the formulas from the ones I have now and the feedback I have had is that they are "not as good" as they used to be. (The cleaner is no way near as good)

    I am considering changing to the Zymol HD cleanse and Carbon wax but I am intersted in the menzerna ranges. I do have some light swirl that I would like to have a go at correcting but am holding back from buying a machine polisher until the UDM is available. So, finally, my question is where would the menzerna fit in. Obviously I would use the intensive one to start with but at which stage would the final finish ones be used ?
    On your first machine session, chances are you'll need to use RD3.02 and a light cut pad to remove the defects, and then either 106FA or 85RD on a polishing pad to refine the finish. Either of the latter products will do for the final polishing step, but 106FA is what I would go for, as in 12 months time, when you have picked up a little light wash marring again, 106FA will be enough to nip it out, whereas 85RD might struggle. Thus, for dual action machine use, I reckon having RD3.02 and 106FA is the way to go. For the folks with rotaries, RD3.02 and 85RD is a better bet.

    With the two polishing stages done, then you move onto the HD-Cleanse step. Hope that helps, and yes, I think you'll find the Zymol products are a wee bit superior in terms of the finish they give.

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    madalex's Avatar
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    rich cooper asweum advice earlier , thanks for your time
    Kind regards
    alex

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Pleasure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WX51TXR
    Next on my list, sometime next week with a little luck.
    Rich, firstly, absolute class and awe inspiring.

    Guess you are very busy and all that but....

    Any update on a guide for blue metallic/pearlescent paints?

    ...thinking specifiically Audi Denim Blue!!!

    Cheers

    CM
    2003 A4 Avant 1.9TDi Quattro Sport

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Aye, my plan is to produce a full set of revised guides shortly, covering all of the major colours... plus techniques for polishing Audi paint. I have to take care of some things on the website first (at the moment the priority is the portfolio and the products section, both of which need a fair amount of work), but after that, I'll try to reserve a week in the diary purely to do the new guides. Bear with me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WX51TXR
    Aye, my plan is to produce a full set of revised guides shortly, covering all of the major colours... plus techniques for polishing Audi paint. I have to take care of some things on the website first (at the moment the priority is the portfolio and the products section, both of which need a fair amount of work), but after that, I'll try to reserve a week in the diary purely to do the new guides. Bear with me!
    Can't wait - well written and informative articles from yourself have given me the bug!

    Are you just updating the website or is there some other changes a-coming?!?!
    2003 A4 Avant 1.9TDi Quattro Sport

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Some pics up on DW now re Jeffs on metallic/pearlescent blue. The site is in need of some major updating in places; the portfolio is going to be completely new, with lots of animation and some other neat touches. The products bit is going to be overhauled in terms of the descriptions, images and new stuff for the spring. A later project for the year is a complete overhaul of the guides, to include new text, new piccies and hopeully video content too.

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    Option 2 Maximum wetness and gloss

    Zyml HD-Cleanse topped with Zyml Carbon

    dont you sell the above items anymore, if not whats replaced it??

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    Clark@Polishedbliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalil View Post
    Option 2 Maximum wetness and gloss

    Zyml HD-Cleanse topped with Zyml Carbon

    dont you sell the above items anymore, if not whats replaced it??

    We ended our assosiation with Zymol so unfortunately don't sell any of their products anymore.


    However, the Blackfire Midnight Sun wax will produce very similair results as the Carbon and if anything darkens the paint slightly more

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark@Polishedbliss View Post
    We ended our assosiation with Zymol so unfortunately don't sell any of their products anymore.


    However, the Blackfire Midnight Sun wax will produce very similair results as the Carbon and if anything darkens the paint slightly more
    so as you have discribed at the top in option 2 the the claener has "and has excellent filling power, meaning it effectively hides marring and fine swirls" which cleaner can i use since you dont deal with Zymol anymore??

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish works just as well in this repsect, and is a little bit easier to use as well. Other waxes worth considering are Raceglaze '42' and Raceglaze '55'. These are pure waxes, like Carbon, and also give a terrific wet look - although more expensive, '55' outperforms Carbon in this respect. In my eyes the polymer content in Midnight Sun gives a different look, combining reflectivity and gloss rather than giving outright wetness. I hope that helps - must rewrite all of these guides soon!

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    Rich.

    Received the Blackfire kit (and other goodies) today, many thanks! just a quick question on the Midnight Sun Ivory Carnauba Paste Wax. I had a look at the documentation that comes with the kit. it recommends applying a second layer for increased Depth, "Rich"ness and wetness of shine, however the wax needs to cure between layers for approx 8hrs (overnight) unfortunately i don't own a garage to park my car in over night and obviously contaminates from the air would start settling on the car over night.

    What's the best way to remove these without putting too much effort into "cleaning" the paintwork again. would a simple rise with a garden hose and dry the paint work off suffice?

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Hmm, that would still be risky, particularly if is was very windy or wet overnight and a lot of fresh fallout was deposited on the car. My advice would be to leave it a week, wash and dry again then rewax immediately after drying - this way you will ensure you are working on clean surfaces and the effect with regard to the wax layering will be the same.

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    cheers for the advice Rich. I'll give it a good wash again then. I was reading the Blackfires Brochure earlier. it says to give 8hrs between each layer recommending one layer of wet diamond all finish paint protection, 8hrs later Midnight sun wax, then another 8 hrs for a second coat.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackfireUSA
    We know you're anxious and want to perform three steps, one after another, but you will not get the same results. You must allow time between products for each coat to cure
    just for anyone wanting a great finish on dark metalics the advise above is quoted from the brochure...

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    I don't mean this in a nasty way but why does your site seem so limited with the LSP stage?

    I mean there are some good products there but your missing classic waxes made by companies like Collinite, Victoria etc.

    Is this because you think they aren't as good as what you have listed on your site or because you simply don't sell them?

    Thanks

    G

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    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    Good question! The simple answer is this; we are not a supermarket, and don't believe in stocking everything everyone else does just because. Rather, we carefully select brands that we are 100% happy to use ourselves when offering our detailing services. Every LSP system we offer has it's place, with relatively little overlap, i.e. Werkstat Acrylic is definitely best on light colours, Blackfire rocks on dark metallics, Raceglaze is better on dark solid colours, etc, etc. We simply sell what we are confident works best and, from our point of view, we don't feel the line up is limited - otherwise we'd be adding more lines asap! Hope that makes sense!

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    Bought Blackfire Gloss enhancing polish & Wet diamond from PB and love the finish, so easy to use and cant knock the end result




    Thanks again

    DTM
    04 Phantom Black S4 Avant, Milltek and some other bits and bobs topped off with loads o polish....

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    Mr.G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WX51TXR View Post
    Good question! The simple answer is this; we are not a supermarket, and don't believe in stocking everything everyone else does just because. Rather, we carefully select brands that we are 100% happy to use ourselves when offering our detailing services. Every LSP system we offer has it's place, with relatively little overlap, i.e. Werkstat Acrylic is definitely best on light colours, Blackfire rocks on dark metallics, Raceglaze is better on dark solid colours, etc, etc. We simply sell what we are confident works best and, from our point of view, we don't feel the line up is limited - otherwise we'd be adding more lines asap! Hope that makes sense!

    What i'm saying here is why do you seem to be a little narrow minded on products. You claim not to be a supermarket, i've never said anything to imply you are or that you have been, so i don't see the point in what you've said. However is it not nice to be given a wide range and choice of products?

    So from your point of view being a reputable detailing company which also sells products you think that Werkstat, Blackfire & Raceglaze are the best on the market. Hence ending your Zymol franchise? Yet i see you still use Zymol.

    Don't get me wrong i've looked at your site in great detail, although never bought anything. Very comprehensive work done on many cars which i might add look truely stunning. It might seem like i'm having a go, that is not my intention, i'll clearly state that here and now.

    I'm just not into educating people into just a few products when there are so many out there. Some a very very good at what they do and some are really inexpensive. Take collinite for example. Both 476S and 915 are extremely good at what they do and having used the i can say from personal experience they make any paint surface type gleam with ease.

    Then theres the bombardment of CG, PB, ClearKote, DoDo, just to name a minute part of the market all at similar prices.

    Why spend 81.51 on a blackfire kit when you can get the same result from a 20 tub of collinite, Vics, CG, not to mention the infamous Zaino.

    The kit has protectant, wax and a sealant, towels and applicator pads. Good little kit, never used it so can't comment on it. I'm sure it's very good. But at 80 all you are really getting is LSP products from what i'm reading off the site - something which collinite and various other cheaper products already do & they do it very well too. Cloths and applicator pads most people already have if they've cleaned their cars at all.

    I'm seeming like i'm knocking the products i know, but it again is not my intention.

    G

  24. #23
    WX51TXR's Avatar
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    We have tested a great deal of the products out there (either by choice or by being sent samples by the manufacturers), and each year we take on one or two new lines that are genuinely new and innovative (i.e. Gloss It last year). We are a specialist car care company, and most specialists (in whatever field) do not sell everything going (like a supermarket style store), rather they sell and specialise in what they believe in. I would still be selling Zymol products if Zymol had not been quite frankly the worst company ever to do business with (read all about it on DW if you want the gossip), and we do continue to offer Zymol Vintage as our premium LSP for our detailing services, as it is amazing in every way (and actually highly cost effective from a business perspective).

    When it comes to education, we do not try to educate people into a limited view of car care, and the unbiased nature of the guides on our site reflects this (the FAQ is there to bridge the gap between the guides and the store, so does carry our own product recommendations). No other UK business has made any serious effort to do this in an unbiased way, and we have always encouraged people no matter what products they use. I also know that lots of people use our advice and never purchase from us, for various reasons. I say fine by us, the information is a free resource for one and all, and later in the year everything is going to be taken to the next level in terms of the way in which the information is presented. Advice will always be one of the three cornerstones of our business.

    Moving on to product prices, we offer products at all price points, so the fact that one kit is 80+ makes no odds as we offer very good waxes at the ~12 too! In truth, there is a definite difference in performance between our value products and our premium offerings that we believe reflects the difference in price, and everyone is free to make up their own mind and spend what they want to. Me personally, I think 80+ for an LSP system is perfectly fine, and actually quite good value for money when you think that it gives you around two dozen applications. Also, do bear in mind size differences - if you added up a Zaino kit that offers the same volume of products I think you would be shocked at the final price.

    No offence taken at your comments, all feedback is warmly received, I just feel you're not getting what we are all about, but that is bound to happen from time to time, as we all see things differently.
    Last edited by WX51TXR; 1st March 2009 at 09:21.

 

 

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