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Thread: avant sub

  1. #1
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    avant sub

    I have an s4 b5 avant with synphony system non bose.
    I am constructing a sub enclosure for the pass side where the standard crappy audi sub is,
    What do i need to do to get the rear speakers back on once the standard sub is removed?
    am i better getting an amp to run the rear speakers and an amp to run my sub, an amp for both sub and speakers or can the standard amp be taken out of the audi sub box?
    which is best and what would i need
    Also I take it i would just need to run it on a line level converter?
    Not sure what size sub im gonna run yet, just gonna see what volume i can sensibly get without ruining boot space.

    Standard specification is unacceptable

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    You'll need a 4channel amp, 2 channels for the rears and 2 channels bridged for the sub. You can pick up all the connections you need from the red plug that used to connect to the sub. This has the rear speaker connections on it, as well as rear pre-outs and remote on feed. The only additional wiring you need to run is power for the amp.
    You can't use the feeble Audi amp to power anything. I put together an MDF enclosure for Wellhouse last week for his B5 Avant and you can get quite a large enclosure in the passenger side quarter. Certainly big enough for a good 8 inch sub. The red connector looked suspiciously like the one in the A3 although we didn't get a chance to test it out. Here are the pin outs on the A3:
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

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    Thanks AndyMac, I knew i could rely on you, very helpfull
    I take it with the red plug already having pre outs i can use those and connect rca type plugs on the end to plug into the amp so i dont need a line level converter?

    Standard specification is unacceptable

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    Yes absolutely. If you don't want to cut any wires then I can sell you an adapter which plugs into the red connector, or you can make your own. PM me if interested.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

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    as Andy says, you can make a sub box to take an 8 inch sub in this space, thanks to Andy, i now have yet another great Mac-stealth box fitted there although not quite running yet. I've spent the weekend running all the cables and removed the Audi sound deadening on the rear inner wing and after cleaning off the wax, fitted two layers of dynamat extreme then replaced the Audi sound deadening to make it look genuine Audi. The box is now painted satin black and i've fabricated some brackets to pick up the original mounting points of the Audi sub. So all fitted, just need to connect up the power supply tommorow evening then my JL 8W3v3 should be singing. Once i've worked out how to post pictures i'll put them up so you can see what's possible. You'll probably find you have to cut out a small piece of metal that doesn't appear to do anyhing, to get enough depth in the box.

    I can't thank Andy enough for all his help, it was beyond my capabilities left to my own devices. I'll pop round Andy, once the powers connected, so you can see the results of your hard work. Thanks again.

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    Nice one, look forward to it, should sound awesome. Have you had a chance to compare the sub connector to the A3 one above?
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

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    avant sub box

    pictures as promised.













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    Hi Andy - i've just been out and checked plug - same shape and red colour however can't see any pin numbers on plug but i have aligned it so the fat brown is at the top right as per your picture and the colours are as follows,

    4 fat brown
    3 thin brown
    2 blue/green
    1 red/blue

    8 purple
    7 yellow
    6 white
    5 white

    10 brown/black
    9 red/green

    looks like Audi are trying to confuse people?

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    that looks fantastic! Bet you can't wait to get it wired up.
    Yes I didn't expect the wires to be consistant colours (they never are with Audi).
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

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    Can you make out what does what? I suspect Disley will have the same problem. If not, i'll try to chase the wires to see what goes where. Cheers

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    You'll never be able to chase them. What I did was first figure out which are perm live and remote on with a 12v testing screwdriver. Then check which ones are the rear speakers. Just wire up an AA battery and try each in turn until you get a slight pop from a speaker, then move on to the other speaker. To work out which is +ve & -ve you really need to remove the door card to see if the speaker moves out or in with the battery connected, but hopefully they've at least used the same format/positioning as the A3 one.
    With those figured out you're only then left with the left & right pre-outs and screen. Screen should be earthed so easy to find with a multimeter, it should also be 2 wires paired together (left & right screens) rather than a single wire. Then you're left with 2 wires and just need to figure out which ones left and right. Either do this with the amp when you wire everything up or you can check it by connecting a small speaker and use the balance control on the HU. Even though they're only pre-outs you'll be able to hear faint music from them with the volume jacked up.
    Either that or some bright soul on here may have the wiring diagrams on Ekta, but that would be too easy!
    Here's the colour scheme to the B6 rear speakers, which is actually no help at all.
    B6 non Bose rear amp
    Left Rear Positive = Brown with Yellow stripe
    Left Rear Negative = Red with Yellow stripe
    Right Rear Positive = Brown with Black stripe
    Right Rear Negative = Red with Green stripe

    Good Luck
    Last edited by AndyMac; 20th July 2008 at 22:28.
    "How to tear apart the ties that bind, perhaps fcuk off might be too kind"
    Alex Turner

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    how large is the enclosure ?
    and what is the internal volume ?
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

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    size is about 16'' x 9.5'' x 6'' (average). As you can see its quite a complicated triple wedge shape, Andy spent hours getting the biggest box he could in there (the guy's got the patience of a saint). The bottom is narrower to get into the lower inner wing and is narrower on one side than the other. It then gets wider towards the top to take advantage of the full depth of the top inner wing and again is wider on one side than the other. Approx internal volume, taking away the internal speaker volume, is about just over 0.3 cu/ft which is just in the spec range for the JL sub. The way i see it is you've only got the space you've got in this area if you want a stealth install, you have to live with that space and find a sub that works with that volume. i used three Jl 8W6 in my old Supra, so know that the JL's work well in small boxes. I can tell you that this box is a really tight fit. The only way it could have been bigger is maybe a couple of inches to the right at the top, the bottom is maxed out. The only other way would have involved removing more of the metal on the inner/inner wing or extending out of the cubby hole opening or cutting the trim card, which was not on the agenda. In that case you might have squeezed in a 10'' if you could find one that works with about 0.5-0.6 cu/ft.

    Thanks Andy for the advice on checking the wiring, sounds like a job for next weekend !!! I'll list the results when i've done it if no-one comes up with the answer in the meantime. Cheers.

  15. #14
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    exellent job on the stealth sub andymac and wellhouse0, should sound the ********, keep us posted

    Standard specification is unacceptable

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    [quote=wellhouse0;583069]size is about 16'' x 9.5'' x 6'' (average). As you can see its quite a complicated triple wedge shape, Andy spent hours getting the biggest box he could in there (the guy's got the patience of a saint). The bottom is narrower to get into the lower inner wing and is narrower on one side than the other. It then gets wider towards the top to take advantage of the full depth of the top inner wing and again is wider on one side than the other. Approx internal volume, taking away the internal speaker volume, is about just over 0.3 cu/ft which is just in the spec range for the JL sub. The way i see it is you've only got the space you've got in this area if you want a stealth install, you have to live with that space and find a sub that works with that volume. i used three Jl 8W6 in my old Supra, so know that the JL's work well in small boxes. I can tell you that this box is a really tight fit. The only way it could have been bigger is maybe a couple of inches to the right at the top, the bottom is maxed out. The only other way would have involved removing more of the metal on the inner/inner wing or extending out of the cubby hole opening or cutting the trim card, which was not on the agenda. In that case you might have squeezed in a 10'' if you could find one that works with about 0.5-0.6 cu/ft.

    yes i dont think you would be able to squeeze much more out from an mdf box
    the only other option of getting a bigger enclosure without damaging the trim would have been moulding a fibreglass back piece to get the maximum amount of airspace and then adding a mdf baffle to the front of it.
    there is one other thing which may give you the impression of a slightly larger box and thats to add a material called "dakron" to the enclosure
    this actually slows the airspeed down of the woofer internally and tricks the woofer into thinking its in a bigger enclosure
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

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    the dakron sounds interesting, where can you get it? i did look at the option of a fibreglass box with mdf front similiar to the auto acoustics design, looked like a lot of work/expensive and the general feeling seemed to be that unless you could really stiffen it up, it wouldn't necessarily sound better although the box volume might have allowed a 10''. I've got to say the mdf box is a massive improvement over stock, really pleased with it, be interesting to measure how low it goes. I was amazed how much bass you can get out of a small box, maybe bigger isn't necessarily better!? its certainly made me rethink my own misconceptions about sub boxes.

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    I have a B6 avant, non-bose amplified rears. Is there one of these adaptor plug/looms available for it?. I have 2 amps gathering dust in my garage and would love to get one of them up and running again.

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    the auto acoustics box is utter rubbish and not fit for purpose
    like anything something is only as good as its construction i have a fibrglass enclosure which fits in my wheel well (it cost me about 50 for materials)
    which took me about a day to build but there is no way i could have gotten the correct sized enclosure from mdf (my sub requires 1.75 cu ft at the absoloubt minimum ) fibreglass isnt hard to use its just like painting all you use is strips of glass fibre weave and then a resin to bond them together in between each layer you use a material which has a very very high absorbancy which soaks up a lot lot more resin this builds the layers up very quickly its simply a case of getting the required thickness (roughly half that of mdf) and then adding a suitable baffle to the top of the enclsoure and sealing it to the top
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

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    I have aligned the red sub plug it so that the fat brown is at the top right as per Andy's picture and the colours are as follows,

    4 fat brown Earth
    3 thin brown left rear
    2 blue/green left rear
    1 red/blue permanent 12v

    8 purple common pre-out
    7 yellow left rear pre-out
    6 white right rear pre-out
    5 white switched live

    10 brown/black right rear
    9 red/green right rear

    I haven't checked positive and negative on the rear speakers yet but the rest confirm as being the same as in Andy's picture, just different colours which i suppose shouldn't be a surprise. will confirm when i take off rear door cards. Hope this helps

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    wellhouse0 is there any chance you have the exact measurements or could take them of the sub box? i've recently acquired a b5 rs4 and was horrified to find that Andymac is no longer around (RIP) as I was interested in purchasing one

 

 

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