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  1. #1
    Ballcrusher's Avatar
    NO CAT JUST 3" STRAIT THREW

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    HELP.....speeker upgrade

    as above im thinking of replacing the standard speekers in my sept 2000 S3 but would i gain anything im also useing a kenwood head unit thats got loads of fuctions. im looking for clearer sound so would it be worth it to change all for speekers in the doors and rear quarters plus the tweeters or aint the standard amp good enough to cope with a speeker upgrade....?

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  3. #2
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    You can bypass the Audi rear amp and run them off the Kenwood HU, which will give you more power to the rears (unless you have the Bose upgrade). Definately worth upgrading the front components, wouldn't bother with the rears, but for clearer sound you really need to replace the sub, either a stealth enclosure or a box in the boot. this will relieve the cabin speakers of any bass duties and thus gives a much better sound all round as well as decent bass.

  4. #3
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    the sub only plays a very limited frequency range so given the choice replace the speakers first then the sub
    rainbow or focal will run well of the standard head unit they will sound a lot better off an aftermarket amplifier
    if you buy a four channel amp bridge the rear two channels together to give you plenty of power for the sub
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  5. #4
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    The sub will allow you to reduce the bass going to the cabin speakers which will improve the clarity and reduce distortion. Replacing just the speakers will give you very little improvement - been there, done that, wasn't worth it.

  6. #5
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    andy how is changing the sub gonna reduce the bass going to the cabin speakers ???
    if you have any sense you will still be using around the same crossover point
    if you raise the crossover point of the sub you will pull the soundstage backwards and your ears will be able to detect the location of the sub
    true the fronts wont be working as hard
    but the sub will be working a lot harder at frequencies at which it does not like doing so and this causes distortion which is how your ears can locate the sub

    andy i didnt say just change the front speakers i said change the fronts first
    then change the sub
    the fronts will play 80hz to 20,000 hz (a massive range and loads of potential for improvement)
    the sub plays 20hz (if you are very very lucky) 80hz (a very limited frequency range with very little chance of improvemnt apart from perhaps making the bass notes more coherant)

    as with all things the equipment is nothing without carefull installation
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  7. #6
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    Well you try it and see how you get on. I'm only bas-ing (?) this on my experience with kitting out 30-40 A3/S3's in the past, so what do I know?
    From your previous comments about A3's it's obvious you haven't even had the door card off on an A3 so how you feel qualified to argue the toss is beyond me.
    No way will the fronts play 80Hz, no matter what speakers you fit unless you go with custom door builds.
    You still run the sub at 80-90Hz, but you set it up with the HU on -2 or -3 Bass setting, yes you will lose some small amount of range, 100-120Hz, but surely that's better than listening to 100-120Hz distorted.

  8. #7
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    its obvious were gonna have to agree to disagree andy
    as with all threads i dont want this to turn into a pissing match im simply here to give the benefit of my experiance not here to argue with anyone
    as regards experiance i only have twenty years experiance fitting car audio with 7 years of that at the top level of car audio competition both judging and competing all around the world

    i understand perfectly what your saying about the a3 door panels (the a6 is exactly the same )
    hence my comment about any equipment is only as good as the installation
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  9. #8
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    I don't really think ballcrusher is after spending £3k on a top line install though.

  10. #9
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    price obviously come into it somewhere
    but i wouldnt dream of spending any money on any car audio if its not installed correctly and to its full potential

    here is how i would personally do it
    i would keep the head unit hes is allready using
    i would first change the front speaker components which will still work wonderfully well off the standard amp but a lot better of an aftermarket amp which has a little more grunt and a tad more refinement

    heres my reccomendation
    http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/rain...927eadf5cd3067

    its possible to spend a lot lot more on speakers but if there installed well and correctly set up you dont really have to
    i recently did a lexus with speakers costing 230 which was directly competing against a car with 7000 speakers you would think that the car with 7000 speakers would win easilly but it didnt and installation is the reason why

    as andy has previously mentioned before the door panels on the a3 are not the best for audio applications but believe me there are worst cars out there...
    they are quite light
    the speaker fixes to the door panel and theres no inner door skin

    heres how to get the best from the door panel
    you will need to make a baffle which will fit to the audi door panel (do not use the pre formed plastic ones from the likes of autoleads they dont fit very well and they resonate like buggery)
    ideally the baffle needs to be as thick as possible (but remember i cant be so thick as it holds the door card off )
    before you mount the baffle to the door card use a sheet of dynamatt material on the backside of the doorcard itself
    heres some sound proofing applications
    http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/acce...927eadf5cd3067
    not expensive but well worth the effort
    put a layer of dynamatt between the baffle and the doorcard

    to do the job and get the best possible you would paint the major surfaces of the doorcard with a product similar to this stuff BEFORE
    APPLYING DYNAMATT( i have found a similar product on ebay for use on kit cars for 7 )
    http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/seco...927eadf5cd3067
    once cured the product goes like rubber and adds a layer a couple of mm thick if you add weight and mass to the doorcard you change its resonant frequency helping to eliminate rattles
    you would then apply dynamatt over the top of this
    when finished the doorcard should not rattle or resonate

    before you apply the dynamatt gently rub the back of the panel with metholated spirits to make sure you get the best possible contact with the panel
    use a heat gun to warm up the dynamatt before hand and if possible use a roller to apply it as this puts even pressure on the material

    now using the same method apply dynamatt to the inside of the door itself
    competition cars will use a couple of layers but a single layer is fine for normal use

    if you really want the best performance possible heres a couple of things you can do to the baffle itself before you fix it to the door card

    when you install the speaker into the baffle dont just screw it to the baffle route out the thickess of the speaker and make sure its perfectly flush when its fitted with the baffle itself like this
    http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/attac...1&d=1173727374 (this aids midrange dispersion charecteristics and avoids the driver breaking up prematurely )

    on the reverse side of the baffle you can either chamfer or put a radius on
    the inside of the hole (this can help with phase cancellation and again helps the midrange frequency response )

    i appreciate not everyone wants to go to this extreme to fit a pair of speakers in there car by using sound proofing material and making there own baffles
    but this just shows it is possible to achieve very very good sound without spending a fortune whether or not this person wants to go to these extremes on installation or not is upto them
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  11. #10
    Ballcrusher's Avatar
    NO CAT JUST 3" STRAIT THREW

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    well im not in to spending loads but would be interested in who could do the job im a fan of focal stuff and herd good things

  12. #11
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    focal speakers are great i use them myself
    but at the bottom end of the price run there simply not as good as the rainbows
    to get something thats slightly better try these at around 230
    http://www.genesiscaraudio.net/main/
    again will work ok off head unit better of standard amp and even better still off an aftermarket amp

    or the next step up from that
    http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/pro...s_id/2791.html
    dont really like working off a standard unit work ok off a standard amp
    but really excell of an aftermarket amp


    whichever speakers you decide on please factor in the cost of the sound deadening as this is as important a piece of equipment as the speakers themselves
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  13. #12
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    And when you've done all that and found that you can't actually fit those 6.5" Rainbows in the doors of an A3 as they're too wide and too deep you'll need to get a panel beater to reshape the doorskins for you & a trimmer to redesign the bottom of the door cards.
    Sorry Nath but you what you're recommending cannot be achieved without complete custom door builds. there is absolutely no room behind the doorcard. Even fitting 5.25" slim Rainbow 230slx's is very tricky.

  14. #13
    Ballcrusher's Avatar
    NO CAT JUST 3" STRAIT THREW

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    well im looking to replace with the same size speeker or what ever will fit without modding and i would ad an amp to to run the upgraded speekers.but not keen on running a sub box in the boot so may have to look at one of andymacs jobys

  15. #14
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    sorry andy but they do its all to do with the design of the baffle
    theres even a couple of comp cars which have focal 6w2 and k2p drivers installed which are even deeper than the rainbows by a couple of mm
    neither of these has custom door builds but they have had a lot of work put into the back of the door cards
    the width isnt an issue providing you leave a couple of mm for the suspension so as it can xmax properly
    what is imperative is you seal around the speaker to stop the front wave and the backwave interacting and promoting cancellation

    im at a competition in a few weeks time andy if you like ill ask one of the guys if he wouldnt mind removing the door panel so as i can photo it to show you exactly how its done
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  16. #15
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    Would that be Paul McKenna by any chance?
    The width is a big issue as the cubbyhole in the door panel fouls anything bigger than 5.25". You only have 55mm depth, from the door card to the window.
    If you recess the baffle to avoid the cubbyhole then the window won't wind down. These are the facts not my opinion. If you have evidence that disproves the laws of physics then I'd be more than happy to see it.

  17. #16
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    andy ive just been told something by one of the guys who has the modification done that puts things in a slightly differant light
    apperently to do what ive suggested is a major job

    apparently the one with focal 6w2 drivers has had all his window mechanism modified and moved to allow for the bigger drivers
    in his words "it was a nightmare job but worth it"

    i am sorry i didnt know this had been done as when ive spoke to him before he never mentioned this bit

    apparently the other car with k2p drivers has had a tiny alteration to the window mech BUT HIS WINDOWS NO LONGER GO FULLY DOWN
    again i apologise i did not know this was the case as its not exactly something that came up in conversation

    so yes the job can be done but its not as simple as i first thought and involves major modification to inside the doors to get things done
    so not something i would reccomend unless you are thinking about top flight competition
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyMac
    Well you try it and see how you get on. I'm only bas-ing (?) this on my experience with kitting out 30-40 A3/S3's in the past, so what do I know?
    From your previous comments about A3's it's obvious you haven't even had the door card off on an A3 so how you feel qualified to argue the toss is beyond me.
    No way will the fronts play 80Hz, no matter what speakers you fit unless you go with custom door builds.
    You still run the sub at 80-90Hz, but you set it up with the HU on -2 or -3 Bass setting, yes you will lose some small amount of range, 100-120Hz, but surely that's better than listening to 100-120Hz distorted.
    I run focal 6W2 midbass in my A3 and I have them crossed at 63Hz. I have an RTA and they hit that no problem. The only thing is you must have as much sound deadening as possible
    A3 2.0 TDI Sport
    Pioneer DEX-P90RS - DEQ-P90
    Focal Audiom TLR - Genesis Dual Mono
    Focal Utopia 6W2 Be - Genesis Dual Mono
    JL Audio 10W7 - Genesis Dual Mono Extreme

  19. #18
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    We're talking about the 8L A3 here not the current model = very different.

  20. #19
    easytease's Avatar
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    helix rs6.2's ftw :D
    1999 1.8 SE A4 100% standard tank, all green.
    Alpine old skool
    Helix RS6 - PHD PRO 4070
    Coral 10" passive setup - PHD 2200

  21. #20
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    Yeah can we list all the speakers that fit all cars other than the S3 in question. Really useful.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by stone_88
    I run focal 6W2 midbass in my A3 and I have them crossed at 63Hz. I have an RTA and they hit that no problem. The only thing is you must have as much sound deadening as possible
    same drivers differant car a lot harder to fit them in the earlier version

    dont be late on sunday !!!
    2003 pearlescent black s4 avant tiptronic - milltek exhaust - pre cats removed - remapped ...
    koni adjustable suspension front and rear
    alpine f1 dvi9990 -pxah990 headunit and processor - alpine d511r
    4 x focal 5ws midbass drivers - focal audiom 6w midrange - focal tce tweeters - velodyne df 12 sc servo controlled subwoofer
    3 x phoenix gold zpa 0.5 amplifiers

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dualmono21
    same drivers differant car a lot harder to fit them in the earlier version

    dont be late on sunday !!!
    I won't I'll be there for 9 so looking forward to it now, 1 driver is doing my head in already!
    A3 2.0 TDI Sport
    Pioneer DEX-P90RS - DEQ-P90
    Focal Audiom TLR - Genesis Dual Mono
    Focal Utopia 6W2 Be - Genesis Dual Mono
    JL Audio 10W7 - Genesis Dual Mono Extreme

  24. #23
    foolish3uk's Avatar
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    here is my opinion, upgrade to bang and olufson lol about three grand and it sounds the dogs ********!!

 

 

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