Well i decided to purchase myself a DTUK crd-t box for my 2.0tdi 143. I was unsure whether to remap or go for this option and i'm so happy i did! The power is amazing!! It has transformed everything about the car, i did used to think that the power was sluggish from 1000 to 2000rpm as the engine was slow to pick up but all that has gone. The service at DTUK was absolutely fantastic and a big thanks to Andrew and his team for all his hard efforts!
I took the Plunge!!
- Thread starter Christian_a4
- Start date
Also the build quality of the box is second to none and the harness looks vag quality so doesnt stand out in the engine bay.
Anthony566
Registered User
I have been looking at tuning boxes ... I would like to understand what the difference really is between a box and a remap ( apart from the obvious one is a plug in box and the other isn't !!!! )
There seems to be two types of box which version did you go for and why ??
There seems to be two types of box which version did you go for and why ??
Anthony566
Registered User
I have been looking at tuning boxes ... I would like to understand what the difference really is between a box and a remap ( apart from the obvious one is a plug in box and the other isn't !!!! )
There seems to be two types of box which version did you go for and why ??
There seems to be two types of box which version did you go for and why ??
Basically the tuning box sits in the engine bay and plugs into the engine intercepting signals from the ECU and altering them before sending them onto the engine.
The cheaper ones usually just force more fuel into the engine to make more power, but the more advanced ones alter more than just fuel.
A remap reconfigures the mapping within the ECU itself, so more can be altered with better results.
The only advantage of a tuning box as I see it over a remap is that it can be removed quickly and the dealer wont even know it was there.
A remap is harder to remove, and the dealer can detect it was there.
The cheaper ones usually just force more fuel into the engine to make more power, but the more advanced ones alter more than just fuel.
A remap reconfigures the mapping within the ECU itself, so more can be altered with better results.
The only advantage of a tuning box as I see it over a remap is that it can be removed quickly and the dealer wont even know it was there.
A remap is harder to remove, and the dealer can detect it was there.
Liquidfusion-S3
I fall to peer pressure!
I heard with the remap that the Dealer can also overwrite the remap settings back to default or something like that?
Anthony566
Registered User
I asked my Audi dealer and they told me in very clear words they will invalidate my warranty if i do this ..... now i know this is a hot topic and there seems to be very mixed responces around this so this is why i was thinking of a Box rather than the remap as mu ecu has to be removed from the car to be mapped i have been told !!
Can we get some scientific responce on the box soloution V the remap ?? does anyone have access to that info as i cant seem to find any test of a box V an ECU remap ???
one of the things that confuses me is if these boxes just pump more fuel as Viceroy has stated how can they deliver fuel efficency while doing that ??
Even more confused
Dave The Jackal
Registered User
I'm keen to improve the performance of my (otherwise fantastic) B8 A4 Avant 143 and like the sound of the DTUK CRD-T box, but share the same concerns as some of the other posters in other threads on the remap / box subject...
I was booked in for the full DPF removal and remap last year, but fear of my insurance company not paying out if the worst happened (along with the accompanying loss of other useful stuff like legal cover) meant I started looking for specialist insurance quotes taking into account the modifications, but they proved prohibitively expensive in the end, so I didn't go ahead. I was contacting sponsors of this site and others, as none of the traditional insurers would touch it, but quotes were literally double what I currently pay, even though the factory 177 model would cost the same as my 143! Bonkers!
I'm well aware that insurers / main dealers can identify cars with remaps too, so I guess there's no real difference with a visible box in the engine bay at the end of the day and it's down to the individual to risk it or declare it and stump up for the extra insurance premium. I'm starting to lean towards 'risk it' again, but I'd love to know what others do / think...
If you've come clean your insurance company, how were they, how much did the premium increase and, if they're any good, who are they?!
I was booked in for the full DPF removal and remap last year, but fear of my insurance company not paying out if the worst happened (along with the accompanying loss of other useful stuff like legal cover) meant I started looking for specialist insurance quotes taking into account the modifications, but they proved prohibitively expensive in the end, so I didn't go ahead. I was contacting sponsors of this site and others, as none of the traditional insurers would touch it, but quotes were literally double what I currently pay, even though the factory 177 model would cost the same as my 143! Bonkers!
I'm well aware that insurers / main dealers can identify cars with remaps too, so I guess there's no real difference with a visible box in the engine bay at the end of the day and it's down to the individual to risk it or declare it and stump up for the extra insurance premium. I'm starting to lean towards 'risk it' again, but I'd love to know what others do / think...
If you've come clean your insurance company, how were they, how much did the premium increase and, if they're any good, who are they?!
Hot topic as usual! Take the plunge you wont regret it and you can remove it when needs be, so no worry of warranty being invalidated. The mpg has risen from 45 mpg at 75 mph to 56 mpg at 75 on a run, massive gains!!
Well I have been with Admiral for over 13 years insurance was on an imported VW Passat 2.8 V6 4Motion, I changed to a S4 man tran - but with a Milltek exhaust (fitted by previous owner), and Admiral really hammered me, but as I wanted to make life easy when buying the car I just took it on the chin. I must remember to look elsewhere when it is time to change. Makes me think of how much else I could change without another hike in price.
I think that it is the old adage, loyalty does not exist nowadays, I had that trouble years ago, with Commercial Union - so walked! It could be that I need to move to Audi insurance services, they gave me a very tempting offer with a month's cover included with the car, which suited me as I had the old car to get rid of. I'd doubt if the Audi selling dealer really considered the effect of it having a "sport" exhaust, so after I would have disclosed that fact, the quote given would probably have changed, time will tell as I reckoned if I cancelled my old car insurance which was just one month into the next year, I would lose as much as I would have got skinned to top that old policy up for the S4.
My only grump about Admiral and probably all other insurers was, as I imported my car, the cover started two weeks before I reg'd the car as I was driving it back home on Dutch transit plates. So, if just allowing them to grab money at renewal time, they allow a month's cooling off period, this means that the insurance database is not updated until well after the road tax is due, so road tax needed to get bought at Post Office, which was okay as it gives them work, but not as handy as buying on-line! The obvious thing to do was to buy 6 months tax once to split things up - I only gave in to that after about 8 years as that is just throwing money away, but at the end of the day it depends on what price you put on convenience!
If staying with Admiral, I might try their multicar policy as I have two cars (mine and wife's) with Admiral cover, and have had for 11 years - reason originally was that Admiral claimed to be able to cover personal imports on their chassis number, this has been proved to be wrong, insurance industry in Europe protects all their own domestic markets and that means that while you might use an insurance company that operates in the country where you buy a car new, if it is not the country where you permanently live, then you can't get cover for initial and final use - think we might call it them using their powers to their advantage. It did make me feel a bit exposed while driving to the ferry with the second car covered only by the 3rd party Dutch transit plates, but life is an adventure and I had paid just a "proper" price and not VWUK's crazy price, currently VWUK are owned by VWAG, I don't know who owns AudiUK. I seem to remember that Audi or Porsche tried importing Seats into another UK country using the method I used - naughty them as that loophole was only intended for buying "means of personal transport" - they got hammered but have they ever paid up?
My only grump about Admiral and probably all other insurers was, as I imported my car, the cover started two weeks before I reg'd the car as I was driving it back home on Dutch transit plates. So, if just allowing them to grab money at renewal time, they allow a month's cooling off period, this means that the insurance database is not updated until well after the road tax is due, so road tax needed to get bought at Post Office, which was okay as it gives them work, but not as handy as buying on-line! The obvious thing to do was to buy 6 months tax once to split things up - I only gave in to that after about 8 years as that is just throwing money away, but at the end of the day it depends on what price you put on convenience!
If staying with Admiral, I might try their multicar policy as I have two cars (mine and wife's) with Admiral cover, and have had for 11 years - reason originally was that Admiral claimed to be able to cover personal imports on their chassis number, this has been proved to be wrong, insurance industry in Europe protects all their own domestic markets and that means that while you might use an insurance company that operates in the country where you buy a car new, if it is not the country where you permanently live, then you can't get cover for initial and final use - think we might call it them using their powers to their advantage. It did make me feel a bit exposed while driving to the ferry with the second car covered only by the 3rd party Dutch transit plates, but life is an adventure and I had paid just a "proper" price and not VWUK's crazy price, currently VWUK are owned by VWAG, I don't know who owns AudiUK. I seem to remember that Audi or Porsche tried importing Seats into another UK country using the method I used - naughty them as that loophole was only intended for buying "means of personal transport" - they got hammered but have they ever paid up?
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Anthony566
Registered User
Sorry to bump and old thread, but im in this position myself now. Have a 2012 A4 Black Edition 143. Love the car, couldn't be happier but a little more power would be very nice. Just speaking to DTUk, they say a gain of 45bhp and 100nm of torque. Sounds too good to be true, and of course i have the usual concerns over warranty etc. My car is on PcP so i guess the plug and play option would be best suited.
What about the standard clutch? can it handle the extra figures?
What about the standard clutch? can it handle the extra figures?
There is already a lot of info here, all I can add is my own personal findings when I looked into this.
One of my previous Audi A4's was a 143bhp, I looked at a remap (Revo remaps, meant to be one of the leaders in this area?) over a plug in box for a couple of reasons.... I was advised the remap re-writes the brain basically, tells the engine what fuel, air and so on to mix to get the best output, as a result you get better performance and better mpg. I have a couple of friends that have gone down this route and love it! In addition, as already mentioned in this post, if for any reason it gets wiped the supplier will upload it again for you (usually free as an existing customer). I was told that the software was undetectable so in the event of an accident no-one would know it was there, which also means its up to you whether to declare it or not. I then approached Audi and asked the question, they advised its not that simple and if you start running 177bhp on a 143bhp car then it will break - reason being the radiator nor the turbo is built or big enough to do the job over a long period of time. I must admit their response made sense, but I cannot comment on how true?
The other option, a plug in box. My mate has an A4 177bhp, this now runs just over 200bhp, he loves it and it does the same job. Difference is, IF he ever had an accident he would need to rip the box out or insurance invalid (if not declared), if after an accident you dont have time to do this
then clearly no claim!
I never had it done in the end, I'm tempted even now, but to be honest I don't think I ever will.
One of my previous Audi A4's was a 143bhp, I looked at a remap (Revo remaps, meant to be one of the leaders in this area?) over a plug in box for a couple of reasons.... I was advised the remap re-writes the brain basically, tells the engine what fuel, air and so on to mix to get the best output, as a result you get better performance and better mpg. I have a couple of friends that have gone down this route and love it! In addition, as already mentioned in this post, if for any reason it gets wiped the supplier will upload it again for you (usually free as an existing customer). I was told that the software was undetectable so in the event of an accident no-one would know it was there, which also means its up to you whether to declare it or not. I then approached Audi and asked the question, they advised its not that simple and if you start running 177bhp on a 143bhp car then it will break - reason being the radiator nor the turbo is built or big enough to do the job over a long period of time. I must admit their response made sense, but I cannot comment on how true?
The other option, a plug in box. My mate has an A4 177bhp, this now runs just over 200bhp, he loves it and it does the same job. Difference is, IF he ever had an accident he would need to rip the box out or insurance invalid (if not declared), if after an accident you dont have time to do this
then clearly no claim!I never had it done in the end, I'm tempted even now, but to be honest I don't think I ever will.
Have a look at Shark Performance | Tuning Redefined
It's a myth that the insurance company won't find out you have a remap if you crash. You're kidding yourself if you think that. Have a google. When I had my remap done the extra insurance was £26 for the year so no point not declaring it. I waited until the point where the insurance was reasonable and then did the remap.
Extra wear and tear is inevitable. The turbo and the clutch are the main culprits. The later versions of my car (B7) were 220bhp anyway so there was some extra built in. At the end of the day I don't thrash it so I'm probably only using the extra power 5% of the time.
It's a myth that the insurance company won't find out you have a remap if you crash. You're kidding yourself if you think that. Have a google. When I had my remap done the extra insurance was £26 for the year so no point not declaring it. I waited until the point where the insurance was reasonable and then did the remap.
Extra wear and tear is inevitable. The turbo and the clutch are the main culprits. The later versions of my car (B7) were 220bhp anyway so there was some extra built in. At the end of the day I don't thrash it so I'm probably only using the extra power 5% of the time.
Audi Dynamik
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There is already a lot of info here, all I can add is my own personal findings when I looked into this.
One of my previous Audi A4's was a 143bhp, I looked at a remap (Revo remaps, meant to be one of the leaders in this area?) over a plug in box for a couple of reasons.... I was advised the remap re-writes the brain basically, tells the engine what fuel, air and so on to mix to get the best output, as a result you get better performance and better mpg. I have a couple of friends that have gone down this route and love it! In addition, as already mentioned in this post, if for any reason it gets wiped the supplier will upload it again for you (usually free as an existing customer). I was told that the software was undetectable so in the event of an accident no-one would know it was there, which also means its up to you whether to declare it or not. I then approached Audi and asked the question, they advised its not that simple and if you start running 177bhp on a 143bhp car then it will break - reason being the radiator nor the turbo is built or big enough to do the job over a long period of time. I must admit their response made sense, but I cannot comment on how true?
The other option, a plug in box. My mate has an A4 177bhp, this now runs just over 200bhp, he loves it and it does the same job. Difference is, IF he ever had an accident he would need to rip the box out or insurance invalid (if not declared), if after an accident you dont have time to do this
I never had it done in the end, I'm tempted even now, but to be honest I don't think I ever will.
Sorry to go slightly off topic.
Revo said the same thing to me in 2011 when i got my Dynamik done. "The software is undetectable", however the clutch went on mine at 27000 and it went into Audi and they could tell on there Diagnosis machine it had been remapped so i asked Revo about this because when i got it done in 2011 Revo told me it was undetectable and they denied that and told me that they do not tell people that the software is undetectable.
Since then they have edited there Faqs and added this in "weâve never claimed software is undetectable"
Under the section "Can the dealer see that my car is modified?"
Revo Technik FAQ's
As per my message, this is just my personal findings - I'm not saying any of it is fact just trying to help/advise what I was told when I made my own inquiries.
There are still companies that state they are undetectable, for example: ECU remapping frequently asked questions
I quote "Will ECU remapping invalidate my vehicle warranty? Answer - NO. The way the Engine ECU Remapping files are flashed to a vehicle is completely undetectable."
To be honest, as you've pointed out - for those interested then a £26 uplift in premium is not worth hiding from the insurance company.
Firecracker, I wasn't having a pop at you. Please accept my apologies. I just think there's a lot of BS on forums and people should not delude themselves.
Firecracker, I wasn't having a pop at you. Please accept my apologies. I just think there's a lot of BS on forums and people should not delude themselves.
Sorry mate, must have just been the way I read it.... sounded like the part "you must be kidding yourself" was aimed at me lol. In all honesty as mentioned for the small price uplift I would declare also, but then I'd always worry about any mods invalidating the warranty, thats just me!
If only we could all afford RS4's, wouldn't have to worry
Liquidfusion-S3
I fall to peer pressure!
Sorry mate, must have just been the way I read it.... sounded like the part "you must be kidding yourself" was aimed at me lol. In all honesty as mentioned for the small price uplift I would declare also, but then I'd always worry about any mods invalidating the warranty, thats just me!
If only we could all afford RS4's, wouldn't have to worry
If we all had RS4's we'd all still be wanting to tune the car lol
moar powaaaaa!!!
Anthony566
Registered User
I have a DTUK Box and to be clear right now the only way to program my car is to remove the ECU and it means drilling out the bolts ... and like you my car is new and under warranty and as such I did not want to put myself in any position were Audi could claim any issue I was having is down to an ECU map so have gone with the DTUK box that takes 2 minutes to fit or remove. My personal feedback is they are very good and DTUK do offer a money back guarantee ..... I have seen a very noticeable increase in acceleration across the power range and an increase in mpg. As for the clutch only time will tell but I am not expecting to have any issues and I not driving everywhere at full pelt either
Anthony566
Registered User
I had a TDUK on my 2.0 TDI and to be honest was not that impressed. I would splutter a few times and i could not really get a map i liked.
When I changed my car to a 3.0 Tdi Quattro i went down the route of a Revo remap and it is so much better. So much smoother and sharper than the tuning box. I know its a different car but if you drove both you would know what i mean.
I paid an extra £25 with Admiral multi car and I'm glad I did. I was involved in an accident about 6 weeks ago and when the insurance assessor rang me he dropped into the conversation "Nice remap". Who did it?
I told him it was declared and he said "is It". I am so glad it was declared !!!
Anyone fitting a tuning box or remap and not declaring it is nuts. If you have a heavy front end impact you will not be able to remove the tuning box.
Not that anyone would do this
When I changed my car to a 3.0 Tdi Quattro i went down the route of a Revo remap and it is so much better. So much smoother and sharper than the tuning box. I know its a different car but if you drove both you would know what i mean.
I paid an extra £25 with Admiral multi car and I'm glad I did. I was involved in an accident about 6 weeks ago and when the insurance assessor rang me he dropped into the conversation "Nice remap". Who did it?
I told him it was declared and he said "is It". I am so glad it was declared !!!
Anyone fitting a tuning box or remap and not declaring it is nuts. If you have a heavy front end impact you will not be able to remove the tuning box.
Not that anyone would do this
I poped in to see Andrew at DTUK today and true to his word new maps loaded FOC ... happy bunny
was nice to see you again Anthony, and it'll be interesting to see how those tweaks affect things
Dave The Jackal
Registered User
Fitted the CRD-T box to my 143 Tdi last night on setting 2+1 and, after a quick run down or local bypass and back, I can tell that it revs more quickly and smoothly from just under 2k and I'd guess it gets to around 80 a couple of seconds more quickly.
Was a dodder to fit and now I just need to play around with the maps to find one that boosts pick up from low revs / standstill, as the car is still as sluggish as it was below around 1800rpm.
Looking at the graphs I think map 3 seems to be the one that kicks in lower down, but I've read other threads that complain of it being more aggressive in nature, so we'll see!
I'm with Admiral and gave them a call really focussing on the fuel gains so they didn't think I was a 'modder' as I don't consider myself such and spoke to a really helpful guy called Mike Phillips who was familiar with the DTUK system and understood what it was all about. They categorise it as a remap on their system,but understand that it isn't and charged me £67 for the 10 moths remaining on my cover. I know this is more that some others have paid,but it seemed reasonable to me and you never know what other peoples' circumstances are so it's never a straightforward comparison when it comes to insurance!
Was a dodder to fit and now I just need to play around with the maps to find one that boosts pick up from low revs / standstill, as the car is still as sluggish as it was below around 1800rpm.
Looking at the graphs I think map 3 seems to be the one that kicks in lower down, but I've read other threads that complain of it being more aggressive in nature, so we'll see!
I'm with Admiral and gave them a call really focussing on the fuel gains so they didn't think I was a 'modder' as I don't consider myself such and spoke to a really helpful guy called Mike Phillips who was familiar with the DTUK system and understood what it was all about. They categorise it as a remap on their system,but understand that it isn't and charged me £67 for the 10 moths remaining on my cover. I know this is more that some others have paid,but it seemed reasonable to me and you never know what other peoples' circumstances are so it's never a straightforward comparison when it comes to insurance!
Fitted just now on standard map, went for a spin an did notice an improvement in power delivery. Hoping for more though son will pay around with different maps. Dave, would be interested in seeing which one you settle for.
Anthony566
Registered User
I am running a new map at the moment it has a more constant pull than the previous map and it doesn't feel as aggressive
Had a good play with the unit this morning going through all the maps, decided to stick with 4+1 :busted_cop:
Very easy to fit and very high quality, the loom itself looks like standard Audi Kit. Next stop, insurance....
Very easy to fit and very high quality, the loom itself looks like standard Audi Kit. Next stop, insurance....
Going to run it on Map 4+1 all week and see how that works out. Feel a lot more aggressive at 1900rpm, It was the only area that i felt the car was lacking in, now it's complete.
Dave The Jackal
Registered User
Map 2+1 is certainly a vast improvement over standard - if it ever stops raining I'll branch out and try the other maps, particularly4+1 if it beefs it up lower down the rev range like you say p17fld.
The one question I have (not really being that technically minded when it comes to the finer points of engines and their brains), is which map(s) will realise the claimed gains of 185PS and 420Nm? I can tell from the graphs when the extra fuel and boost come in, but presumably the +1, +2 etc turn up the wick incrementally, so is it a case of 4+3 is the highest setting (if you don't get an engine management light)?
Apologies if that's a numpty question!
The one question I have (not really being that technically minded when it comes to the finer points of engines and their brains), is which map(s) will realise the claimed gains of 185PS and 420Nm? I can tell from the graphs when the extra fuel and boost come in, but presumably the +1, +2 etc turn up the wick incrementally, so is it a case of 4+3 is the highest setting (if you don't get an engine management light)?
Apologies if that's a numpty question!
