3.2 v6 noise on cold start

imotepify

imotepify

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Hi guys, have had the a4 for just over a week and noticed a new noise on Saturday morning after the car had been stood for 4 days. It wasn't a constant noise but I could hear it every so few seconds for around 1 min but it went away when the engine got upto temp and was fine all day (lots of stops and starts) but was there again on Sunday morning car drives fine and pulls like a train. Any ideas what the noise could be, I know it's hard to say without hearing it lol the car has just come back from Audi in Bury st edmunds where it's had new cam adjusters and a software update done.

Thanks for any help, Karl.
 
Maybe best to video the engine from cold and post onto youtube?
 
Will do, try and do it tonight after work as walk or bike to work most days.
 
Had same problem on my 3.2 V6 a few weeks ago.

Car was sat for a couple of days, cold start, cold weather. Lot's of "diesel" noise, sounded like an old cab. Then went away after a while. did this a couple of times.

Possible causes I found whilst trawling the web: cam chain tensioners which are oil pressured or blocked oil feeds to the said tensioners.

At the same time, I did also have an engine warning light on which had been on for a couple of months, and was in the process of diagnosing. Car ran fine, etc, apart from noise. I finally did do a scan and found that one of the Cam position sensors was giving a warning code.

Changed all four cam position sensors (around £30 each from Audi and 5 minutes work on the driveway for all of them to be swapped), and never had a problem since.

So conclusion I drew from this was that the inability to correclty measure the cam posiiton, somehow affected the tension in the chain causing the clatter/rattle that I heard. I believe the position sensors are also in line with cam actuators which push the cam from a low to high rise positon dependent on RPM.

Anyway, from what I gather, changing the tensioners may also be an idea, and I'd be intersted in hearing whether anyone else has done this on the 3.2 V6, cos Audi seem to be shying away from even quoting for the job. I do believe they can be done individually on both banks with engine in, but not sure. If so, I'd get those done too.
 
Yes mate, I've had both my top tensioners changed by a friend with the engine in place. Got them done as it was making a rough grating noise on start up. Had drivers side done first. Then passenger a month later. When my mate got the passenger one out it fell apart. The tensioners are around £150 each

Audi wanted to change all chains, guides, vanos units and tensioners. And said they'd normally just change the engine. Think it was almost £4.5k for just parts from them so that wasn't happening.

I also had an engine flush and the oil pump replaced along with the heads off and intakes decarboned at a later date as the engine was previously on long service intervals.

Also had a cam adjustment valve fail which caused very rough running occasionally but only cost £80ish to replace.

Probably still got most part numbers is anyone needs them.

Assume the noise imotepify is hearing is the noise you get while pressure is building (chain on sprocket sort of sound) and the injectors tapping

List of what's been done engine wise:
2005 3.2fsi 99k had 2.5 years:
Oil every 6 months
2 sets of spark plugs
Both top chain tensioners
Battery
Cam adjustment valve
Aux. belt
Electric fan
DMF and clutch
Clutch switch
Thermostat
Temp sensor
2 Coolant changes
2 gearbox pinion bearings
2 gearbox oil changes
MAP sensor
Coil packs
Oil pump
Intakes removed and valves decarboned (gaskets and seals replaced)
 
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Hi and thanks for the replys the noise sounds like its at the back of the engine on the right hand (passenger) side ive just been out and done a vid on my phone but was in the dark so you cant see much, will do another in day light when I get a chance I went for a quick spin and sounded fine when I got home (5 mins) no warning lights are on the dash and drives perfect but did have a lumpy tick over on Saturday morning. Will post a link soon.
 
While I think about it, another symptom I had was that the engine would take around 5-10 seconds of turning over before starting; now the start is on the turn of the key. Noticable difference from before and after.
 
There is a delay on the start from cold compared to a warm start sounds like it could be the same problem will put the link up in a moment its taking ages to upload from my phone lol
 
Thats defo not a good noise, you sure theres no heat shield rubbing somewhere? bearing in mind they will have had everything apart for the work they did.
 
Not sure fella, gonna give Audi and the dealer a call today as only had it a week. Might be a heat sheild, would that stop making a noise when hot tho?
 
rizzini7 said:
Hmm, interesting. I get the slow start on cold as well might look into the cam sensors next. You got the part numbers mate?
Click to expand...

I'll try and dig them out when I'm back at the ranch, might be a couple of days, but I think I've got the invoice in a folder somewhere.

The sensor is also commonly referred to by a reference number (begins with G, and I think mine was G163 or somehtoin like that).


But, I wouldn't want to dissuade the OP from checking out the tensioner etc, and that's what I plan to do over the medium term.

If you have a P/N for the top tensioners that would be useful - did it make a differennce (I guess even from peace of mind)?
 
Its going back 2 the dealers on Wednesday so they can start it on Thursday morning and have a listen. Hope its just a sensor but I have no warning lights on so not sure. If its a sensor would it stop making the noise when upto temp?
 
Damn, mine didn't make that noise. Defiantly worth asking Audi to check it out as they've only just worked on it.

When the cam adjustment valve went on mine I would get rough idle once warm, under powered, misfire and whole car judder. (But not all the time). Worse than that we changed the DMF and clutch before pinpointing it to the valve :(.

Yeah, changing the tensioners sorted the grating on start up. Sounded like running a push bike chain in reverse if you know what I mean (but rougher). A lot of the parts I've changed have been for peace of mind though.

I do get the slow starting when cold as well. But no dash lights. May be worth me plugging my vagcom in again to check it out if you pinned it down to the cam sensors.
I remember pricing up for the sensors now when it turned out to be the adjustment valve. Yeah you're right they are G something.

Can you remember if they were all the same? Assume they're the ones that a two pin connector goes into and screwed down with two screws.
 
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to answer your question, I can only say from my car and what I heard, and of course the source of the prob could be different.

But, prior to changing sensors, the noise was present at cold start, a bit at first, then more so, and then diminished and stopped after a couple of minutes of idle. The last time it was like that, it took a longer time to go away and was louder. I was ******** myself when it did that... But having followed up the earlier warning light I changed the sensors and the noise never came back. In other words, I changed the sensors because I already had a warning light oin the dash.

I reckon that over time the sensor made the car more difficult to start, then it drove OK as the engine found it's timing. As the sensor got progressively worse (over a week) then this became more difficult to do and the timing drifted a little. I beleive there is some in built adjustment of timing to account for chain tension varying over the lifetime of the engine. This is why I reckon that bad sensor -> incorrect timing which is slightly out-> chain clatter as the slack does not get taken up as it should. I do have close to 200,000km.

If on the other hand the tensioner is dodgy then the logic goes that as the oil is thick at cold start, pressure is not always up to the mark and only builds up once the engine has warmed, hence again the noise should diminish as the tensioner does it's job.

When I looked up the fault code I found out that the sensor fault could be linked to faulty tensioner, i.e. it;s poss to have an engine warnig light as the sensor can't make head or tail fo the input as the chain is out.
 
to answer your question, I can only say from my car and what I heard, and of course the source of the prob could be different.

But, prior to changing sensors, the noise was present at cold start, a bit at first, then more so, and then diminished and stopped after a couple of minutes of idle. The last time it was like that, it took a longer time to go away and was louder. I was ******** myself when it did that... But having followed up the earlier warning light I changed the sensors and the noise never came back. In other words, I changed the sensors because I already had a warning light oin the dash.

I reckon that over time the sensor made the car more difficult to start, then it drove OK as the engine found it's timing. As the sensor got progressively worse (over a week) then this became more difficult to do and the timing drifted a little. I beleive there is some in built adjustment of timing to account for chain tension varying over the lifetime of the engine. This is why I reckon that bad sensor -> incorrect timing which is slightly out-> chain clatter as the slack does not get taken up as it should. I do have close to 200,000km.

If on the other hand the tensioner is dodgy then the logic goes that as the oil is thick at cold start, pressure is not always up to the mark and only builds up once the engine has warmed, hence again the noise should diminish as the tensioner does it's job.

When I looked up the fault code I found out that the sensor fault could be linked to faulty tensioner, i.e. it;s poss to have an engine warnig light as the sensor can't make head or tail fo the input as the chain is out.
 
Hopefully Audi come up with the answer. Assume they're doing as a good will gesture (free for you at least).
I would of hoped if they've recently changed the vanos units they would of checked that everything timing related was 100%.

What oil you using? Running mine on 5w40 now so a bit thicker anyway but does dampen the chain chatter down.

If you're looking at changing the top tensioners you may want to consider checking for carbon build up while the intakes are off. (Unless it's been previously done) the replacement gaskets weren't to much. Although apparently mine wasn't to bad
 
Wow lots of horror stories on that other youtube link with the 3.2 v6 :( What oil do you guys use in this engines im gonna get me some 5w30 castrol edge or mob 1 soon, unless you can recommend another oil?
 
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Running 5w40 in mine as it's thicker and dampens the chain noise a little. Recommended is 5w30 though. Bare in mine it's always the bad stories you hear. And also a lot of the YouTube ones appear to be the newer engine. Hope you get some good news from Audi
 
imotepify said:
Wow lots of horror stories on that other youtube link with the 3.2 v6 :( What oil do you guys use in this engines im gonna get me some 5w30 castrol edge or mob 1 soon, unless you can recommend another oil?
Click to expand...

Using 5w30 Castrol edge on a long life service regime
 
rizzini7 said:
I have dropped the long life service on mine. Usually do mine every 6k
Click to expand...

I want to get the A4 on a 4-6000 mile service for oil n filter just not sure if I should go 5w30 or 5w40 in my last V6 I used 0w40 mob1
 
rizzini7 said:
Hmm, interesting. I get the slow start on cold as well might look into the cam sensors next. You got the part numbers mate?
Click to expand...

OK found the Part number. There's four of these to replace. 3 are piece of p***; the fourth's a bit hidden, but no real hassle,

06E905163.
 
Well I took it back 2 the dealer who has taken it back 2 Audi so just waiting 2 see what they think.
 
Mines still at Audi, gonna call them at lunch n see whats happening
 
They say its the adjusters on the other bank now, we thought they had done both sides the first time so looks like another 1500 sobs for the dealer as still in warranty.
 
You'd think they would of done both in the first place. Bit of a result if you'll end up with all four changed. Personally I'd then consider the top two chain tensioners at some point.
 
I reckon that dealer will make it his mission in life to never sell another audi!
 
Lol, we got 4 new tyres and the front bumper resprayed and a new battery a full service and he had just put the price down in the car.
 
Was a very good deal even with the cam adjuster probs, lets just hope thats the end of the problems and we can start enjoying the car lol
 
audi upgrades
The quattro is still at Audi in Bury, They are now looking at the fuel pump as that was showing as a fault so they are gonna cold start it in the morning and get back 2 me, they did say that they removed/cleaned some black sludge from old oil ect but not sure how that was effecting the cam adjuster, fingers crossed it will all be ok and we can have our car back :(
 
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