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Thread: FWD V Quattro in ze Winter!

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    FWD V Quattro in ze Winter!

    Coming up to this time of year...we get the hardy annual debate about why Quattros are so good in the winter. I have always been really pleased with the way my FWD 2.0t handles the snow and ice and this wee Auto Express experiment kind of proves it too. Mind you, I do have studs on my winter tyres. Check it out.....and I would still love a Quattro Winter Tyres or 4x4: which is best? - Auto Express - YouTube
    Whadya think?

    BR
    A
    Last edited by Molnboman; 8th November 2013 at 16:01.

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    Not really surprising if you put the wrong tyres on for the wrong conditions then it's never going to work very well. The other thing to note about the test is the ford will use a similar system to the A3, TT haldex system, not like the permanent four wheel drive on the A4 quattro which would have done better but still would have struggled with summer tyres on.

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    Well going by how many people i helped out over the winter a couple of years back in my land rover, i would say 4 wheel drive all the time every time.
    Its not just the confidence that you can always get home regardless of tyres fitted, its the traction, just think when you have spun up on ice/snow and you know if you just had a weeny bit of drive to the other two wheels you could get home.
    The people i towed were in all sorts/ages of cars, obviously no rear wheel drives as their owners had already walked home! the ones that fascinated me were the ones who said no when asked if they had a tow rope, i mean who sets out in the snow without some means of recovery, ****ing idiots!
    I owned a rwd merc for two winters, never again, loads of v8 power, but even the damp was enough to upset it.



    Lynall

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    Quote Originally Posted by lynallbel View Post
    Well going by how many people i helped out over the winter a couple of years back in my land rover, i would say 4 wheel drive all the time every time.
    Its not just the confidence that you can always get home regardless of tyres fitted, its the traction, just think when you have spun up on ice/snow and you know if you just had a weeny bit of drive to the other two wheels you could get home.
    The people i towed were in all sorts/ages of cars, obviously no rear wheel drives as their owners had already walked home! the ones that fascinated me were the ones who said no when asked if they had a tow rope, i mean who sets out in the snow without some means of recovery, ****ing idiots!
    I owned a rwd merc for two winters, never again, loads of v8 power, but even the damp was enough to upset it.



    Lynall
    Totally with you there...it mental how many motorists just never prepare for winter...with the attitude..."oh come on, The snow only last two weeks!"...As for RWD cars....well up here, the only ones you see driving in Sweden in the winter months are normally half way up a tree!

    BR
    A

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    Quote Originally Posted by Molnboman View Post
    Coming up to this time of year...we get the hardy annual debate about why Quattros are so good in the winter. I have always been really pleased with the way my FWD 2.0t handles the snow and ice and this wee Auto Express experiment kind of proves it too. Mind you, I do have studs on my winter tyres. Check it out.....and I would still love a Quattro Winter Tyres or 4x4: which is best? - Auto Express - YouTube
    Whadya think?

    BR
    A
    Quattro with winter tyres wins it for me! Awesome combination, driving in the heavy rain we have at the moment, the car feels very grippy still!
    Audi A4 B7 2004 red 2.0 TFSI Quattro Sport saloon, Servotronic steering, MFSW, CDIS, DRL with Coming Home, auto dual xenon lights/wipers/mirrors, split folding rear seats, 3rd headrest, centre armrest, Isofix mounts, RS4 rear ARB, pedals & carbon dash trims; Audi TTS 9Jx18alloys (2 sets), Yokohama AD08 summer, Conti TS830P winter 245/40/18 tyres, TPI 15/20 spacers/lockers, Pipercross filter, GFB DV+ turbo valve, NGK BKR7EIX plugs, Osram Silverstar Xenarc D1S bulbs. Build thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Molnboman View Post
    Totally with you there...it mental how many motorists just never prepare for winter...with the attitude..."oh come on, The snow only last two weeks!"...As for RWD cars....well up here, the only ones you see driving in Sweden in the winter months are normally half way up a tree!

    BR
    A
    I'm one of those summer year round motorists haha, all city here though so the majority of roads are gritted reducing the need for wheel changes.

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    this will be my first winter season with the quatrro so..
    I'm excited , can't wait for the first snow/ice to appear I'll let u know how it feels like comparing to my previous audis (all fwd's)

    Proud owner of a:
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    Interesting stuff. What's the deal with winter tyres? I seem to recall someone telling me they were best for temperatures of 8C or less. What happens on those wet days when it's more than that?

    And yep, also recall the work car park being full of abandoned RWD cars when it snowed.

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    FWD V Quattro in ze Winter!

    Once you go Quattro you'll never go back :D

    On my fourth now..

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty76 View Post
    Interesting stuff. What's the deal with winter tyres? I seem to recall someone telling me they were best for temperatures of 8C or less. What happens on those wet days when it's more than that?

    And yep, also recall the work car park being full of abandoned RWD cars when it snowed.
    I run winter tyres from November to March, temperature makes no difference, the mythical 7/8 degree figure is internet BS, obviously they work better in the cold but still function well in warmer temps.

    Based on 10 years worth of experience.......
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    Thanks for that. That's why I asked, just coz mates/Google says so doesn't make it so.

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    Only thing I will say is cheap winter tyres are probably no better than a good quality all season tyre.

    I've used Dunlop Winter Sport 3D for a lot of years now in various sizes with good results.

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    the temperature thingy with winter tyres is that with temps climbing higher than the stated 5C to 7 ,8 ish they start to wear quickly ,brake distances increasing rapidly as they're made to perform in low temp conditions.

    Proud owner of a:
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOM.S View Post
    the temperature thingy with winter tyres is that with temps climbing higher than the stated 5C to 7 ,8 ish they start to wear quickly ,brake distances increasing rapidly as they're made to perform in low temp conditions.
    Must say i have noticed the wear difference in the snow with my old car, leon cupra r. Chewed through tyres for fun and was a nightmare to drive in the snow (although it never stopped me)
    As for the the quattro

    It just laughs at it....
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty76 View Post
    Interesting stuff. What's the deal with winter tyres? I seem to recall someone telling me they were best for temperatures of 8C or less. What happens on those wet days when it's more than that?

    And yep, also recall the work car park being full of abandoned RWD cars when it snowed.
    Mine are awesome in the wet. The weather is stormy 3-11deg C at the moment, these tyres give so much grip, if you tried them you'd never use summer tyres in wet/icy/snowy weather again! Buy some on Ebay if funds are tight, you'll need a spare set of alloys as I have (both 9" x 18s with 245/40/18) but each set will last much longer, it's much safer and more fun to drive overall and of course once snowy, you can basically pick a road and drive up it, whatever the condition! (I love rallying so this is lots of fun!).
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOM.S View Post
    the temperature thingy with winter tyres is that with temps climbing higher than the stated 5C to 7 ,8 ish they start to wear quickly ,brake distances increasing rapidly as they're made to perform in low temp conditions.
    That's not entirely true. My new set of winter tyres used from the rain in Oct '12 to snow in Apr '13 wore just 1mm in total! They felt more secure in the wet than my worn Pirelli summer tyres in the dry (which have just been binned).
    Audi A4 B7 2004 red 2.0 TFSI Quattro Sport saloon, Servotronic steering, MFSW, CDIS, DRL with Coming Home, auto dual xenon lights/wipers/mirrors, split folding rear seats, 3rd headrest, centre armrest, Isofix mounts, RS4 rear ARB, pedals & carbon dash trims; Audi TTS 9Jx18alloys (2 sets), Yokohama AD08 summer, Conti TS830P winter 245/40/18 tyres, TPI 15/20 spacers/lockers, Pipercross filter, GFB DV+ turbo valve, NGK BKR7EIX plugs, Osram Silverstar Xenarc D1S bulbs. Build thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty76 View Post
    Interesting stuff. What's the deal with winter tyres? I seem to recall someone telling me they were best for temperatures of 8C or less. What happens on those wet days when it's more than that?

    And yep, also recall the work car park being full of abandoned RWD cars when it snowed.
    Much improved these days. the type this sell in the UK are really quite good now and work well even around 7 - 8c. There use to be some info on the Audi UK site certainly last year there was. You have to bear in mind too that road surface temperatures can often be colder than the reading you have on your dashboard! It's law up here for obvious reasons but if I moved back to the old country I would still consider buying a cheap set of steels and putting some half decent brand of winter tyres on for the cold months anyway.

    Cheers
    A
    ps: It's been really mild up here +10 to +15c and my bus is driving as normal and that's with feckin studs on them too, so am with the previous comments that they can take higher road temps....just that I think the wear will be greater, natch than in really cold conditions.
    Last edited by Molnboman; 8th November 2013 at 22:14.

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    We stuck winter tyres on wifes merc and she ran them all year round, wife reckoned they were brilliant
    Recently sold merc tyres had done approc 15 k still had life in them
    Merc was 3.2 petrol and she didnt hang around either

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    My approach to severe winter conditions - ice and snow - is pretty simple; I just drive ultra slowly; plan every manouevre well in advance, use the tiptronic for downshifts with engine braking, and treat every pedal as thought it were an unboiled egg.

    I haven't used winter tyres before now. I understand the argument that they provide a lot more grip (cornering and braking), but I do wonder whether there's a risk that drivers will drive faster (i.e. closer to the limits of the winter tyres), hence no safer overall. Another reason to drive ultra slowly on snow is to minimise the risk of pushing a wedge of impacted snow into the gap between the engine and undertray. I've read a lot of stories on here of broken undertrays (and worse) as a result of snow build up.

    That's not to say I never will use winter tyres. I'm just not convinced yet.

    As for the quattro, it's amazing. For me the biggest advantage is in just getting going in the first place. Where so many cars are spinning their front or rear wheels (usually because the driver is over-revving), I can put mine in drive, breathe no more than gently on the throttle, and the 4WD and the car will usually ease away.
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    Problem with you going ultra slow is you cause chaos behind you as they slow down, then cannot get restarted again
    The amount of poor sods i saw the other year as the front car was going so slow as they were obviously scared ****less, the rest slowed down, lost traction and then stopped so everyone else had to stop and thats it whole road screwed, as front guy was going so slow he then lost momentum, he then span to halt, they all see me and my land rover and think its rescue time, how wrong they were!
    Its all about momentum, not fast not slow just keep it moving all the time regardless, same as off road driving.
    I an all fairness i did tow out several cars, and the amount that came past me with engine flat out and wheels madly spinning at less than walking pace was unreal, still keeps the gearbox people in business!


    Lynall
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty76 View Post
    Interesting stuff. What's the deal with winter tyres? I seem to recall someone telling me they were best for temperatures of 8C or less. What happens on those wet days when it's more than that?

    Most manufacturer quote 7C or less.

    And yep, also recall the work car park being full of abandoned RWD cars when it snowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by tut_gareth View Post
    Once you go Quattro you'll never go back :D

    On my fourth now..
    Totally agree, my M3 was a death trap in the snow, Cclass 63AMg was even worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrix View Post
    I run winter tyres from November to March, temperature makes no difference, the mythical 7/8 degree figure is internet BS, obviously they work better in the cold but still function well in warmer temps.

    Based on 10 years worth of experience.......
    Most manufacturer quote 7C or less. Hancook and Goodyear both quote 7C or less only.

    Audi S4 quattro in Dolphin Grey Metallic, Silver leather, carbon inlays, RNS-E, 6 speed manual, electrically adjustable & heated seats, xenon headlights with power wash, cruise control, storage pack, 18" OEM RS4 wheels, RS4 ARB, LED lighting upgrade, FASH plus every bill since new.




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    My take.... I have an old Jeep that I use in the winter to "run about"

    Last year, I had my S4 on part worn 'summer' tyres... and it was fine in the snow.

    I also had to do longer trips (400+ miles) so bought winter wheels and tyres for the S8.... and I hated them... I didn't feel comfortable with the car at all....



    Don't think for a minute "winter" tyres solve everything... I was stranded for 3 days last year in Stockholm when a snow storm hit... all the cars were stuck - the magical tyres did nothing to help...

    It was quite bad mind you...


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    This thread increased my want for a dash cam, snow driving is fine but with all the hills around here someone will probably get stuck and roll back on me.

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    There is an Audi advert on the radio that says that Quattro improves grip in all conditions. This is dangerously misleading.

    Can anyone explain to me what use 4 wheel drive is when you are trying to stop on snow an ice?

    Yes, quattro will improve traction to get you going, but grip is dependant on the contact surface with the road i.e. the tyres. It is grip you need when you are trying to stop.

    My wife and I have both noticed that in mild and wet weather, winter tyres definitely do not grip as well. Though apparently some winter tyres work better in mild weather than others DYOR.

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    3 winters ago my wife was running a Renault Clio auto with 175/65/14 tyres, fair enough it had snow mode(wow) that made it pull away in 2nd gear but this little car drove past every 4X4 that was in its way in the snow .Personally I think car tyres have gotten far too wide/large for their own good in wintery muddy wet conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daz Auto View Post
    There is an Audi advert on the radio that says that Quattro improves grip in all conditions. This is dangerously misleading.

    Can anyone explain to me what use 4 wheel drive is when you are trying to stop on snow an ice?

    Yes, quattro will improve traction to get you going, but grip is dependant on the contact surface with the road i.e. the tyres. It is grip you need when you are trying to stop.

    My wife and I have both noticed that in mild and wet weather, winter tyres definitely do not grip as well. Though apparently some winter tyres work better in mild weather than others DYOR.
    Engine braking to all four wheels...........Quattro isn't able to defy the laws of physics but certainly makes it much easier to control.
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    Why would you want engine breaking, It kind of f**ks the engine over time and like all brake setups you want more breaking at the front of the car than the rear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B5NUT View Post
    Why would you want engine breaking, It kind of f**ks the engine over time and like all brake setups you want more breaking at the front of the car than the rear.
    Never heard that before, how does it f**k an engine?
    From my land rover off roading days using engine breaking was much preferred as all the wheels equally slow down the vehicle until control can be regained rather than clutch in and braking then locking the wheels causing loss of traction..
    Have used engine braking in all road driving conditions with all my vehicles and most have had over 150k miles without issue and one quattro had over 240k on its original clutch and no engine work at all..

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    Quote Originally Posted by B5NUT View Post
    Why would you want engine breaking, It kind of f**ks the engine over time and like all brake setups you want more breaking at the front of the car than the rear.
    Engine braking is an invaluable tool of good car control but like anything, it needs to be used judiciously.
    Last edited by jdp1962; 21st November 2013 at 21:04.
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    I just fitted 4 Zeta winter tyres on my Audi a4 2.5 tdi quattro and looking forward for the snow.The tyres cost me about 7o pounds each and I can wait for the snow now
    i wonder how the fuel consumption is going to be but will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B5NUT View Post
    Why would you want engine breaking, It kind of f**ks the engine over time and like all brake setups you want more breaking at the front of the car than the rear.
    Thats news to me, i use engine braking all the time, engine still works it turned 20 yrs old couple of months ago.
    I think you will find every brake set up on every car/van/truck has its braking biased towards the front, even my 53yr old land rover does this with different sized wheel cylinders
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    Hehe good old C4 A6. the one I had was the best in the snow :-)

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    Every winter i buy a cheap b5 quattro, fit winter tyres and pull the ABS fuse off the car. That's the best combination as the b5 on good winter tyres (bought vredestain winters) with the ABS disabled is the best car i ever driven. As above, being aware of the situation in front , using engine brake and keeping the momentum- will get you out of any situations ! I had over 50 quattros, to this date my allroad on 17" tyres is the best, heavy, low gearing and air suspension and i did not get stuck once. Here's me "trying" to do donuts- i could not, the car had too much grip !

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    Click the images for video...in first clip you will notice another 1.9tdi quattro b5 speeding away....
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    Quote Originally Posted by tut_gareth View Post
    Never heard that before, how does it f**k an engine?
    From my land rover off roading days using engine breaking was much preferred as all the wheels equally slow down the vehicle until control can be regained rather than clutch in and braking then locking the wheels causing loss of traction..
    Have used engine braking in all road driving conditions with all my vehicles and most have had over 150k miles without issue and one quattro had over 240k on its original clutch and no engine work at all..
    +1

    I've been engine breaking since day one, on cars, bikes, on road, off road, track everywhere and never had any issues or caused damage...

    odd....
    tut_gareth likes this.

  39. #38
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    +2

    Engine braking helps to lessen the workload on the braking system and also allows engine temperatures to settle less aggressively. Obviously it should be used in moderation and effectively to work properly.
    jdp1962 and tut_gareth like this.

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    lorry use jakebrakes, retarders...this blokes talking utter ****e

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    Quote Originally Posted by micky2 not 1 View Post
    lorry use jakebrakes, retarders...this blokes talking utter ****e
    Just to point out a retarder actually works on the transmission and not on the engine at all.

 

 
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