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Thread: How much grunt?

  1. #1
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    How much grunt?

    Hi all.
    Quick question for you.
    I own an A4 2.0tfsi s-line special edition and was wondering how torquey it should feel, the problem is I used to have a Mk4 gt tdi 130 golf (my wife now drives it) and everytime I drive it now I'm shocked how much grunt it has. Its not that the a4 is slow it's alot faster than the golf but it just doesn't have the pull. I have changed the Dv to version D but that didn't make much difference.

    So my question is, how grunty should the a4 feel and how apparent is it when the turbo kicks in?

    Thanks
    Drew.

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    Low end torque is characteristic to turbo charged diesel engines...there are loads out there with over 300Bhp that can run low 13 sec 1/4 mile...
    FOR SALE:
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  4. #3
    AudiB7Jay's Avatar
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    the lower end torque on the any diesel is noticeably better than any petrol, that's why there so good for towing. its not all about horse power. if you have the torque to match or more than your horsepower you cant go wrong i don't think :D ive always thought its now how fast you can go its how fast you can get there
    V6 Quatt likes this.

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    I agree.
    So do you guys have the turbo petrol version? If so what does urs feel like on boost?

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    I have a 2.0TFSi FWD A4. My wife has a Jetta 2.0 TDI PD 140. The Jetta definitely has the low down grunt but the TFSi is much faster once wound up. I would say the TFSi felt sluggish in standard form. I recently had a Shark Stage 1 remap on the TFSi and the torque is much better. It's still not as low down as the diesel but it is much improved. I'd recommend it as a good upgrade. Cost me £399 for the remap plus an extra £25 in insurance premium but has been well worth it.

    I had the DV changed and a boost leak test done before the remap. There were no issues with my car in standard form. I'd say it took the remap for the car to feel how I expected it should feel for a 2.0TFSi.

    Hope that helps.

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    Hi i also have a 2.0 tdi sline . I've found the ,same low down it an feel a little sluggish but you can feel plenty of pull still in it . But once you've wound it up and the turbo kicks in it'll put your arse back into the seat for sure.

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    That's reassuring scotty,
    I think what's throwing me is that I've only been in one other 2.0 tfsi motor and that was an edition 30 golf gti that had been remapped. It was scary fast and you could really feel the power surge when it came on boost.
    Out of interest scotty, what kind of gains are to be had from a remap on these cars?

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    Power goes up to 240bhp but Shark don't quote the torque gain. http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/br....0TFSi 200bhp/

    When I was looking into this I managed to find some rolling road graphs with a bit of Googling. I don't have any links to hand I'm afraid but sure they'd be easy to find again.

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    Thanks again Scotty. Think I might go and chat to my local tuning shop (star performance) after work and see what they can do, although I don't know if it would be worth it for me as my A4's meant to be 220hp standard.
    Thanks again.
    Drew.

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    Torque up to 396 Nm with an AMD stage 1 remap.

    62 Nm gain.
    B7 A4 Avant S-line Special Edition v2 2.0 TFSi - AmD stage 1 - 263Bhp 396Nm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringster View Post
    Torque up to 396 Nm with an AMD stage 1 remap.

    62 Nm gain.
    Just out of interest how did u manage 396nm of torque with a stage 1?

    396 - 62 = 334 nm stock? Thats quite a bit thought they only make 298nm/200lb ft stock.

    Quite a strong motor you got there.

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    Was thinking the same myself.
    Well I got a quote from the tuners this afternoon, £350 Inc vat. They said it would give me 260hp and 50 more torques. Still undisided though.

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    Ooooh... go on, go on, go on.

    Surprised at the 260 though as thought that needed exhaust plus CAI?

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    The only thing that's putting me off is I didn't recognise the mapping company. The woman told me they used to use GIAC & O. CT maps but now they use this guy down south(can't even remember the name). I guess they must be ok as star performance have a great reputation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty76 View Post
    Ooooh... go on, go on, go on.

    Surprised at the 260 though as thought that needed exhaust plus CAI?
    CAI is recommend but not entirely necessary the stock box and airfilter is good for up around 300hp.

    As for exhaust as much as everyone jumps to the conclusion like a miltek will be better or it is needed when remapping. Reality is it wont really make much of a difference. You can push quite high power figures with stock equipment. And for the sake of what £700-800. Take 15 mins of your time or anyone else with the intention of getting a aftermarket system like miltek for example and go measure your exhaust piping. You will notice the pipes are exactly the same diameter so you not really gaining anything. Some say aftermarket exhausts is a must, well what is it going to do that the stock wont? its going through the same diameter piping yes the boxes might "flow" better but its all a mental thing because its new and it "must" perform better and because it makes a new noise, reality is you could stick a set of new OEM boxes will be near enough the same result just a different noise. Unless for example you go for a non resonated system which just deletes the middle box and gives you some more noise. Just some food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by drew306 View Post
    The only thing that's putting me off is I didn't recognise the mapping company. The woman told me they used to use GIAC & O. CT maps but now they use this guy down south(can't even remember the name). I guess they must be ok as star performance have a great reputation.
    With regards to the map it is a bit of a tricky one. Reality is 80% of the country use the same maps. They just alter figures dont believe that they have spent hours testing it and all that bull the main source is the one that has done the testing. Most maps are developed by a company which I wont mention. Who supply maps to the likes of superchips, shark, revo etc. They all the same its branding and they just make some adjustment to the map to make higher figures than another competitor brand. Just out of interest drew306 were are you based?

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    Hi mate, I'm based in Fife Scotland. I agree with the exhaust statement though as I've put loads of systems on cars and never noticed any difference apart from noise. I've done the same with induction kits and the only one the gave me anything was the AEM one I put on my ep3 type-r, and I wouldn't say it was worth the money.
    I think I'll go back to star performance and speak to Jim the owner on Monday as it was the service receptionist I spoke to yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giosabcsl View Post

    As for exhaust as much as everyone jumps to the conclusion like a miltek will be better or it is needed when remapping. Reality is it wont really make much of a difference. You can push quite high power figures with stock equipment. And for the sake of what £700-800. Take 15 mins of your time or anyone else with the intention of getting a aftermarket system like miltek for example and go measure your exhaust piping. You will notice the pipes are exactly the same diameter so you not really gaining anything. Some say aftermarket exhausts is a must, well what is it going to do that the stock wont? its going through the same diameter piping yes the boxes might "flow" better but its all a mental thing because its new and it "must" perform better and because it makes a new noise, reality is you could stick a set of new OEM boxes will be near enough the same result just a different noise. Unless for example you go for a non resonated system which just deletes the middle box and gives you some more noise. Just some food for thought.
    Your way off here, the reason for the exhaust change is because of the two cats in the standard system, as the flow increases (more boost, fuelling, air) the stock cats are to high restriction and EGT's will rise to dangerous levels, so by fitting a free flowing system the tuner can push for more power/run a higher level of tune safely
    Audi S3 : revo stage 2+

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    Quote Originally Posted by R34nel View Post
    Your way off here, the reason for the exhaust change is because of the two cats in the standard system, as the flow increases (more boost, fuelling, air) the stock cats are to high restriction and EGT's will rise to dangerous levels, so by fitting a free flowing system the tuner can push for more power/run a higher level of tune safely
    Way off you say?? Right well lets put it way back into perspective here. It was never mentioned about having a cat delete at all. As the standard system does not offer a cat delete. In order to get the 2 cats out of our cars you have to go for a decat and a downpipe. Which again is not a option with the miltek cat back system as to which I was referring to as this is the general consensus when changing exhaust systems. The only thing miltek will do is either you buy a hi flow cat or with some of the miltek systems come with a downpipe for our cars but again the diameter is exactly the same as stock and the cat is still partially in there as far as im aware.

    But yes the general idea is to get restrictions out of the exhaust as theory goes faster it gets in the faster you want it to be removed. So I fully agree with the fact that the EGT will get hotter but in reality everything will get hotter.

    Reality speaks for itself sadly some believe it some dont. Ive run a a4 b6 1.8t 20v with over 350 hp on stock exhaust and was never an issue anyway in fairness I did have a decat and downpipe. But still brings it back to the point of no need to splash out on a new shiny system when the one our cars are
    supplied with by default is already a good benchmark.

    Quote Originally Posted by drew306 View Post
    Hi mate, I'm based in Fife Scotland. I agree with the exhaust statement though as I've put loads of systems on cars and never noticed any difference apart from noise. I've done the same with induction kits and the only one the gave me anything was the AEM one I put on my ep3 type-r, and I wouldn't say it was worth the money.
    Quote Originally Posted by drew306 View Post
    I think I'll go back to star performance and speak to Jim the owner on Monday as it was the service receptionist I spoke to yesterday.


    Well im glad you agree at least we on the same page. I was in the same boat as you when I had my ep3 its all noise really.
    Have you tried looking at the revo chips they are more aggressive by nature and more pricey but they are great maps. Unless you want something that comes in more low down sort of in the 2600-2800 rpm area were as the revo peak boost is around 3000 -3200 rpm. Just remember after around 5500 rpm our cars really drop down in power as the ko3 turbos on our cars run out of steam hence why a lot go for the ko4 as a replacement. Just some extra info
    Last edited by Giosabcsl; 1st September 2013 at 02:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giosabcsl View Post
    Way off you say?? Right well lets put it way back into perspective here. It was never mentioned about having a cat delete at all. As the standard system does not offer a cat delete. In order to get the 2 cats out of our cars you have to go for a decat and a downpipe. Which again is not a option with the miltek cat back system as to which I was referring to as this is the general consensus when changing exhaust systems. The only thing miltek will do is either you buy a hi flow cat or with some of the miltek systems come with a downpipe for our cars but again the diameter is exactly the same as stock and the cat is still partially in there as far as im aware.

    But yes the general idea is to get restrictions out of the exhaust as theory goes faster it gets in the faster you want it to be removed. So I fully agree with the fact that the EGT will get hotter but in reality everything will get hotter.

    Reality speaks for itself sadly some believe it some dont. Ive run a a4 b6 1.8t 20v with over 350 hp on stock exhaust and was never an issue anyway in fairness I did have a decat and downpipe. But still brings it back to the point of no need to splash out on a new shiny system when the one our cars are
    supplied with by default is already a good benchmark.
    no one would suggest needing a catback exhaust for power unless they were trying to con you, as if there are any gains from the cat back then it's minimal, I've never seen lets say a stage 2 map require a catback? the requirement is a turbo back system with at very least a sportscat, usually has no precat either.

    On most cars there's a lot to gain by removing that pre-cat, if you've ever taken one off and looked down the pipe you will see why is poses such a restriction.

    It's not all just hot air with exhausts, (excuse the pun) but I don't believe there's much to gain with the back section alone
    Audi S3 : revo stage 2+

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giosabcsl View Post
    CAI is recommend but not entirely necessary the stock box and airfilter is good for up around 300hp.

    As for exhaust as much as everyone jumps to the conclusion like a miltek will be better or it is needed when remapping. Reality is it wont really make much of a difference. You can push quite high power figures with stock equipment. And for the sake of what £700-800. Take 15 mins of your time or anyone else with the intention of getting a aftermarket system like miltek for example and go measure your exhaust piping. You will notice the pipes are exactly the same diameter so you not really gaining anything. Some say aftermarket exhausts is a must, well what is it going to do that the stock wont? its going through the same diameter piping yes the boxes might "flow" better but its all a mental thing because its new and it "must" perform better and because it makes a new noise, reality is you could stick a set of new OEM boxes will be near enough the same result just a different noise. Unless for example you go for a non resonated system which just deletes the middle box and gives you some more noise. Just some food for thought.



    With regards to the map it is a bit of a tricky one. Reality is 80% of the country use the same maps. They just alter figures dont believe that they have spent hours testing it and all that bull the main source is the one that has done the testing. Most maps are developed by a company which I wont mention. Who supply maps to the likes of superchips, shark, revo etc. They all the same its branding and they just make some adjustment to the map to make higher figures than another competitor brand. Just out of interest drew306 were are you based?
    Revo software is all developed in house by our very experienced team. We were the first to offer OBD software and continue to be at the top of the game.
    Our development and testing process is a long rigorous one and very cost intensive.

    The development team will never release software until we are completely happy with it, however long that may take, hence we are rarely first to market, Revo customers will wait for good things.

    I will also add that after all this time and development cost, keeping the Revo brand as strong as it is, there is no way that we'd share or let any competitor have access to our files.


    There is a lot more information on our development/testing in the links below -

    Performance

    Exhaustive Testing


    Drew, drop Falkland a call - | Falkland Performance

  22. #21
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    I remapped mcdubbers B7 A4 2.0TFSi before he sold it. He's on here. This car was the test bench for Forge for the FMIC on this particular model and he had Forge DV and interccoler, standard airbox and exhaust and came to me for Shark stage 1 remap. Now about 4 months after remapping Simon was happy as withthe power so took it to a rolling road. This particualar car made 303bhp and was a beautiful car to drive with endless power. PM him for details
    Angelwax/BBS/BCS/Bilstein/Cobra/CTS Turbo/DTUK/H&R/K-Sport/KW/Loba/Milltek/Shark Performance/Oz Racing/TPI/VCDS/V-Maxx/Vossen/Wagner

 

 

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