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Thread: AUDI A4 3.0 TDI CABRIOLET INJECTORS

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    AUDI A4 3.0 TDI CABRIOLET INJECTORS

    HI

    I HAVE A AUDI A4 3.0 TDI CABRIOLET ON A 06 PLATE IT HAS 70K ON THE CLOCK

    THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN AT IDLE FOR ABOUT 5-10 MINUTES IT STARTS TO SMOKE AND WHEN I GIVE IT HARD ACCELERATION IT SMOKES QUITE BAD. I THINK IT IS INJECTORS FAILING AS THE SMOKE IS WHITE AND SMELLS OF UNBURT FUEL

    I ALSO DONE A OIL CHANGE ON IT TODAY AND THE OIL THAT CAME OUT WAS THINNER THAN USUAL AND LOOKS LIKE THE UNBURNT FUEL HAS GONE INTO THE SUMP AS ABOUT 9.5 LITRES CAME OUT AND THE CAR TAKE ABOUT 8 LITRES.

    HAS ANY ONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM?

    JUST WANT TO NO THE NEXT STEP DO I NEED ALL NEW INJECTORS OR ISIT WORTH GETTING THEM RECONDITIONED? IF SO DOES ANY ONE NO THE PRICES

    THANKS

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    I would find out if there is a recall for injectorsfirst.

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    HI

    WHERE WOULD I FIND OUT? WOULD I RING AUDI ITS A BIT STRANGE THAT THERES A INJECTOR FAILURE AT 70K

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    The 3.0tdi was never part of the same injector recall as the 2.0tdi, but that doesn't mean its not specifically your objectors that are the problem, just that it isn't a known fault with Audi and common to the 3.0tdi engine.

    My mechanic said it took 10 litres in oil at the last service though so I wouldn't worry about the amount which came out of yours

    Car: 2007 A4 3.0TDI Quattro S-Line Cabriolet
    Mods: Pipercross Panel Filter, Smarttop, LED Plate Bulbs, LED Interior Bulbs, Blue LED Needles, Remap, EGR Delete, Custom Stainless Exhaust (4" Slash Tips), Cupra-R Splitter, Embossed Number Plates, 19" BBS CH Reps & Vredestein Ultra Sessanta's, 12mm TPI Spacers, -30m H&R Springs, MTEC Black Edition Brakes (Dimpled & Grooved), Mintex Pads, RS4 RARB, Vibe Square Subwoofer in Ski-pass & Alpine MRP-350 Amp

    VCDS - PM for details (East Midlands)

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    10 litres????? You have a problem there mate or your mechanic can't calculate properly.
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    Do a leak off test if you dont have a kit normally aroun £100 get four small pop bottles or how ever many injectors you have got get that amount of bottles and get some hose or fuel line or any type of tubing. connect this pipe to the injectors best you can you can buy leak off adapters for £2 each oh ebay, but if you cant get any just force the pipes over the leak off, and run the engine if they are over fueling they should leak off a different amount of fuel for each injector ie one bottle will have more or less fuel than the others, if this is the case i would get recon, but before this you would need to scan to see if you have any pump faults coming up as this can cause over fueling for recon pumps or injectors try Reconditioned and repair of diesel common rail injectors and diesel fuel pumps i purchased a set with 12 months warrant for my A3 1.9TDI and have had them in for three year so well passed there 12 months warranty and still working fine

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    seems the same issue as mine and mileage, any reports of the fix?

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    I have this issue with a 3.0 tdi quattro S Line Cab. Lots of smoke after idling for a few minutes. Oil level well above the maximum line a couple of days after changing. Its been diagnosed as injectors by an automotive diesel specialist. The engineers Ive used haven't seen this type of injector before or failure like this after only 90k miles. They had to speak to Bosch technical to get information on how to test them as the normal test they did didn't show any problem. Bosch sell reconditioned injectors for £230 each.

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    davidfox280585's Avatar
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    geebo could you relate to this further please on the method of testing

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    I picked it up yesterday & it has stopped the smoking after a period of ticking over.
    They are Piezoelectric Diesel Injectors on the 3.0 tdi. The difference in the test procedure as far as I was told is a lower pressure is used & not applying a charge to them under test. The method was as Bosch technical had advised the engineers to with this type of injector.
    I was wrong about them being reconditioned they were service exchange Piezoelectric Diesel Injectors from Bosch.
    These are the people I used GW Dale Diesel Engineers - Diesel injector and diesel fuel pump repair sales and servicing

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    rowdyboy's Avatar
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    How many of the injectors did they change??
    Could you give a rough idea of the price and would you recommend the garage?
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    Hi,
    I have been pricing these up as I have three duff ones, you can check them on VCDS, by monitoring MVB 72-77.
    Audi have updated the pt. no. of these injectors countless times, the latest no. is 059 130 2 77 BD, Bosch no. 0445115 078 (I think the last three digits are correct)
    Audi recommend to replace all six, if you replace only the faulty ones you would then have a mixture of two different pt. no.s of injectors, so I,m not sure what to do with mine as I have had a quote of just under "2k" to replace mine at a well thought of VAG specialist, £245+vat each injector, and £180+vat to fit. They also have to be coded to the car, so the fitting price includes this.
    I,m hoping to get the price per injector down a bit though £240 ea inc.vat seems to be the cheapest I have found.

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    Group buy??
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowdyboy View Post
    How many of the injectors did they change??
    Could you give a rough idea of the price and would you recommend the garage?
    I did indeed have all six changed the bill was £1950. The diesel engineers have been around since the early 1960's & were recommended to me by BVR Automotive my local independent VAG specialist. I didn't know that the injectors were coded to the car.
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    They have calibration data stamped on them. When this is entered into the ECU it uses it to correct the injection duration fractionally. This helps to reduce noise and vibration. The ECU actually applies correction factors for the wear of the injector as it ages, which is why a used injector wouldn't work as well as a new one becuse the injector flow will not be the same on a used injector as it was when new.
    Cars these days are getting over complicated.

    Karl.
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    Karls 312bhp A4 3.0 TDI build thread http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4...ld-thread.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy27168 View Post
    Hi,
    I have been pricing these up as I have three duff ones, you can check them on VCDS, by monitoring MVB 72-77.
    Audi have updated the pt. no. of these injectors countless times, the latest no. is 059 130 2 77 BD, Bosch no. 0445115 078 (I think the last three digits are correct)
    Audi recommend to replace all six, if you replace only the faulty ones you would then have a mixture of two different pt. no.s of injectors, so I,m not sure what to do with mine as I have had a quote of just under "2k" to replace mine at a well thought of VAG specialist, £245+vat each injector, and £180+vat to fit. They also have to be coded to the car, so the fitting price includes this.
    I,m hoping to get the price per injector down a bit though £240 ea inc.vat seems to be the cheapest I have found.
    Could you tell me what values I should be looking for on VCDS, or where I find that info.
    3.0 Tdi Q A4 Avant S-Line Dolphin Grey
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertstorm View Post
    They have calibration data stamped on them. When this is entered into the ECU it uses it to correct the injection duration fractionally. This helps to reduce noise and vibration. The ECU actually applies correction factors for the wear of the injector as it ages, which is why a used injector wouldn't work as well as a new one becuse the injector flow will not be the same on a used injector as it was when new.
    Cars these days are getting over complicated.

    Karl.
    I've just checked with the diesel engineers who did the job & they did indeed code the calibration details of the injectors to the ECU.
    They didn't tell me at the time because it was just 'part of the job' & generally don't mention it to the customer unless asked. (old school)
    I must admit to being a little concerned when I first saw your post Karl.
    So 'all good' as they say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rowdyboy View Post
    Could you tell me what values I should be looking for on VCDS, or where I find that info.
    I have put up this info before somewhere, but I will update this thread on what you need to look at in VCDS to diagnose injector problems, and I will paste in what my measuring block said so you can see.
    If anyone is really serious in a group buy I would be up for it, though it would depend on how much extra we can get off as £240ea is a very good price and I,m seriously struggling to get anyone to beat it but it might be worth asking if they will do more off if buying more units.
    I was thinking about looking on German E-bay and searching the pt. no. or Polish e-bay (isnt that where the Bosch factory is) to see if there was anyone cheaper and prepared to ship to UK, but my internet skills are sadly lacking as I only seem to pick up UK auctions despite changing the setting to worldwide.
    Anyone fancy a challenge?
    Last edited by Andy27168; 15th January 2014 at 12:41.

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    rowdyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy27168 View Post
    I have put up this info before somewhere, but I will update this thread on what you need to look at in VCDS to diagnose injector problems, and I will paste in what my measuring block said so you can see.
    If anyone is really serious in a group buy I would be up for it, though it would depend on how much extra we can get off as £240ea is a very good price and I,m seriously struggling to get anyone to beat it but it might be worth asking if they will do more off if buying more units.
    I was thinking about looking on German E-bay and searching the pt. no. or Polish e-bay (isnt that where the Bosch factory is) to see if there was anyone cheaper and prepared to ship to UK, but my internet skills are sadly lacking as I only seem to pick up UK auctions despite changing the setting to worldwide.
    Anyone fancy a challenge?
    I just found a set of six on German ebay for €799 (I've not converted that to £ yet).
    They are new and the page mentions numerous part numbers, including the ones you quote.
    Theres no mention of Bosch though.
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    Prompted by this thread, I have just phoned up a company called M & B fuels in Eastleigh, Southampton which were recommended to me by a friend of mine in the trade.
    They have quoted me £195+vat each exchange, this is with discount, and a total bill of £1638 fitted and coded inc. VAT.
    This is by far the cheapest quote I have had so I have booked it in to be done on Friday, while I wait, they said it should take approx. two hours.
    I spoke to him regarding replacing just the three faulty injectors, he had no problem just replacing the three, and the car would run perfect but he did say that as it was three that were gone he would recommend all six, as he said the other three would,nt be far behind, in fact he seemed to imply that just replacing the three would accelarate the wear of the three left, this and the fact that Audi recommend to replace all six, was what I used to make my decision on replacing all six.

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    I think he is probably not far wrong. Some models of these injectors seem to be made of toffee and they are not very durable at all.
    If you were thinking of keeping the car any length of time then I think that you would probably be better off getting all of them done.
    If you were only going to keep the car for a short while or just repair it so you can sell it on then there is a decision to be made.
    The fact that the car had a new set of injectors would probably be a good selling point on these engines as it seems to be there biggest bug bear.
    Karl.
    Karls 312bhp A4 3.0 TDI build thread http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4...ld-thread.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy27168 View Post
    Prompted by this thread, I have just phoned up a company called M & B fuels in Eastleigh, Southampton which were recommended to me by a friend of mine in the trade.
    They have quoted me £195+vat each exchange, this is with discount, and a total bill of £1638 fitted and coded inc. VAT.
    This is by far the cheapest quote I have had so I have booked it in to be done on Friday, while I wait, they said it should take approx. two hours.
    I spoke to him regarding replacing just the three faulty injectors, he had no problem just replacing the three, and the car would run perfect but he did say that as it was three that were gone he would recommend all six, as he said the other three would,nt be far behind, in fact he seemed to imply that just replacing the three would accelarate the wear of the three left, this and the fact that Audi recommend to replace all six, was what I used to make my decision on replacing all six.
    This is what I don't understand, some people say these injectors are not able to be serviced, then your guy is doing that price on exchange. Does that mean he can service them, or he's selling on the 3 good ones??? It'd be good to find out.

    I find it hard to believe that just putting 3 in would wear the remaining 3 any quicker, that's a bit of a sales ploy I think. They are independent of each other (apart from the fuel lines obviously). It's not like a mechanical part, where putting something new on increases the strain on worn parts.
    ......having said that, I don't blame you for replacing all 6, in the long run it's cheaper and the others could have failed next week.
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  24. #23
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    Hi,
    I asked the same question, and his reply was that in time Bosch may offer recon ones and all the ones that are being returned on exchange basis now will be the base units for the exchange system. The £245 price was exchange as well, M&B fuels did say I could buy them out right but they were in the region of £300.
    I was cynical about the need to replace all six, but I thought about it this way all six have had the same quality of fuel, the same amount of fuel through them and they have all electrically operated the same amount of times, and they were all manufactured and tested to the same standard, so it would only be a matter of time before they failled.
    Audi do the injector as an exchange unit as well their part number is the same except the two letters at the end of the number are AX.
    Last edited by Andy27168; 15th January 2014 at 16:52.

  25. #24
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    Rowdyboy, here is the info regarding VCDS and how to diagnose faulty injectors.

    Technical product information
    Transaction No.: 2013969/11

    White smoke or juddering at idle speed - V6 2.7 l / 3.0 l TDI Release date: 11-Aug-2008

    Customer statement / workshop findings

    White smoke from the exhaust system and juddering when the engine runs at idle speed for some time - V6 TDI 2.7l / 3.0l TDI.

    Technical background

    Mechanical wear of the needle attachment of the injector leads to an increased fuel injection into the combustion chamber. The fuel is not completely burnt, which causes white smoke (unburnt fuel) or juddering when the engine runs at idle speed for some time.

    This complaint occurs only on vehicles with more than 50,000 km.

    Measure

    Read the measured value blocks 72 - 77.
    3 values per measured value block appear there (for 300 bar, 600 bar, 1000 bar).

    Should the values be higher than minus -45 ms (example - 60ms) or on digit 2 be higher than minus -15 ms (e.g. 20ms),
    the needle attachment is worn and the injector is incorrect.

    To avoid repeat repairs, replace all 6 injectors.

    Observe the algebraic sign (minus) in measured value block 72-77

    Here are the Mvb values taken from my car,

    Address 01: Engine (8H0 910 401 A)

    23:28:15 Group 072
    -34.0 ms Time Corr.
    -14.0 ms Time Corr.
    -6.0 ms Time Corr.

    23:28:15 Group 073
    -50.0 ms Time Corr.
    -16.0 ms Time Corr.
    -14.0 ms Time Corr.

    23:28:15 Group 074
    -62.0 ms Time Corr.
    -28.0 ms Time Corr.
    -16.0 ms Time Corr

    23:31:20 Group 075
    -24.0 ms Time Corr.
    0.0 ms Time Corr.
    -2.0 ms Time Corr.

    23:31:20 Group 076
    -54.0 ms Time Corr.
    -16.0 ms Time Corr.
    -16.0 ms Time Corr.

    23:31:20 Group 077
    -38.0 ms Time Corr.
    -8.0 ms Time Corr.
    -4.0 ms Time Corr.

    Looking at my values again I think I misinterpreted and it appears I have 5 injectors out of spec, I have put them in Bold the values I think are out of spec.


    Group 072 - Cylinder 1
    Group 073 - Cylinder 2
    Group 074 - Cylinder 3
    Group 075 - Cylinder 4
    Group 076 - Cylinder 5
    Group 077 - Cylinder 6
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  26. #25
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    Thanks for the info mate, it's much appreciated.

    Could you tell me where you found that info, part of it doesn't quite make sense.
    The first part says anything HIGHER than -45 eg -60 (which is a greater negative number)
    The second part says anything HIGHER than -15 eg +20 (which is a greater positive number)
    I'm not picking fault, I just want to get it clear before I check mine.
    The HIGHER seems to work both ways.
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    Hi,
    I found it on another forum, when searching Audi 3.0TDI Injector problems.
    I have also googled the tech issue number which gives links to some very useful info.
    Google "Audi TPI 2013969/11".
    I must admit the negative and positive values confused me a bit, I think that is why the examples after each value of which way to read it.

 

 

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