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Thread: 3.0 TDi or S4?

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    Cool 3.0 TDi or S4?

    Hi all,

    Having just started a new job (on good money) I'm comencing saving for a 2005/2006 B7 Avant.

    I have wanted an Audi for ages. I'm looking to spend around £10,000-£12,000 in about 12 months. I know I've joined the site early but I want to do my research and build up my knowledge first.

    I was thinking of a 3.0 TDi. This gives me performance and economy. However having just seen that a similar age S4 is coming in at the same money. Now I'm thinking to hell with economy! My mind is split between the two.

    I'd appreciate pros, cons and things to note for both models please.

    Many thanks in advance.

    Kev

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    jojo's Avatar
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    The S4 will be a LOT more to Tax per year over a 3.0TDI.


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    Hi,

    I have just moved from a B7 S4 saloon to a 3.0 TDi Quattro Avant.

    Whilst I loved the S4 for the way it drove, acceleration handling, all the toys and the sweet sounding V8 lump, I just couldn't justify the £600 a month on fuel.

    So the problem I had was finding a replacement car, I loved the S4 as a car so it always was going to be another A4, preferably a 3.0TDi, one came up with the same level of spec as the S4, was bought the day after the S4 was sold, and I haven't looked back.

    Handling is just as good, ok the initial acceralation isn't there but its no slouch either, Will be getting it remapped soon so I can't even see the power difference being a problem.

    And the plus side is I am now not filling up every 3 days.

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    I've never owned an S4, so can only speak for the 3.0TDi, having owned one now for just over a year. Mine is an SE Quattro automatic, and it is just awesome. Of course, it is not sporty in character in the way an S4 would be, but the combination of performance and economy is pretty beguiling. I know others will have a different opinion, but I would heartily recommend that, if choosing a 3.0TDi, you get an automatic. The engine and gearbox complement each other just perfectly.
    A4 3.0TDi SE Quattro Auto. Factory-fit: RNS-E/bluetooth; F/R parking sensors; full leather/heated front seats; cruise. Retrofit: Remap; Eibach 30mm lowering springs, RS4 RARB; MTEC drilled/grooved discs; 18" RS4 alloys; VW fan washers; Kinetic Digitizor DAB; Blackvue DR380 camera; front armrest; ambient lighting; white LED lights; autodim mirror; Cupra splitter; S-Line door blades; tints; UK pressed plates; MFSW; SDS; TPMS; LED Taillights and DRLs.


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    Thanks for the comments.

    So I'm now leaning towards a 3.0TDi.

    As for auto or manual - durability? Having driven the odd auto, they seem to ride the clutch. Do they last as long as a manual box?

    Cheers,
    Kev

    EDIT:
    What does a remap do in terms of power, torque and performance to a 3.0 TDi?

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    3.0TDi +44 bhp gain +28 lbft torque gain
    that's a revo stage1 map claim.
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    [QUOTE=RAFkev;1408958]Thanks for the comments.

    So I'm now leaning towards a 3.0TDi.

    As for auto or manual - durability? Having driven the odd auto, they seem to ride the clutch. Do they last as long as a manual box?[QUOTE]

    I don't know what you mean when you talk about an auto box "riding the clutch". The autobox in the 3.0TDi Quattro is a traditional style auto with torque converter, made by ZF, and doesn't have a clutch. These boxes are pretty much bullet proof. Any scare stories you might have heard about fragile Audi auto boxes will have referred to the Multitronic CVT, which is not used in Quattros.
    A4 3.0TDi SE Quattro Auto. Factory-fit: RNS-E/bluetooth; F/R parking sensors; full leather/heated front seats; cruise. Retrofit: Remap; Eibach 30mm lowering springs, RS4 RARB; MTEC drilled/grooved discs; 18" RS4 alloys; VW fan washers; Kinetic Digitizor DAB; Blackvue DR380 camera; front armrest; ambient lighting; white LED lights; autodim mirror; Cupra splitter; S-Line door blades; tints; UK pressed plates; MFSW; SDS; TPMS; LED Taillights and DRLs.


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    Oh right.

    I'm a bit of a novice with auto's and have very little mechanical knowledge of them. I didn't know they didn't have a clutch. Obviously I know the don't have a clutch peddal but thought the clutch was built into the box. I don't really know what a torque converter is.

    Sorry for my "noob'ness"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cook View Post
    I just couldn't justify the £600 a month on fuel.
    No kidding...!
    Last edited by SebRogers; 7th November 2011 at 16:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAFkev View Post
    Oh right.

    I'm a bit of a novice with auto's and have very little mechanical knowledge of them. I didn't know they didn't have a clutch. Obviously I know the don't have a clutch peddal but thought the clutch was built into the box. I don't really know what a torque converter is.

    Sorry for my "noob'ness"!
    Fair dos. In layman's terms, a torque converter is a coupling device that sits between the engine and an automatic gearbox (where the clutch would be in a manual). It allows a variable amount of "slippage" to take place in the amount of drive that passes from the engine to the box. This enables the car to idle whilst stationary and in gear (without stalling), raises the revs within a given gear to increase the amount of torque (hence the name) for acceleration, and also creates that slurring effect during gearchanges to make them smoother. It's probably what you meant when you talked of riding the clutch, only, as you will have gathered from reading this, it's meant to happen.

    If you want a more technical explanation, try reading this.

    .
    Last edited by jdp1962; 7th November 2011 at 21:13.
    A4 3.0TDi SE Quattro Auto. Factory-fit: RNS-E/bluetooth; F/R parking sensors; full leather/heated front seats; cruise. Retrofit: Remap; Eibach 30mm lowering springs, RS4 RARB; MTEC drilled/grooved discs; 18" RS4 alloys; VW fan washers; Kinetic Digitizor DAB; Blackvue DR380 camera; front armrest; ambient lighting; white LED lights; autodim mirror; Cupra splitter; S-Line door blades; tints; UK pressed plates; MFSW; SDS; TPMS; LED Taillights and DRLs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    The S4 will be a LOT more to Tax per year over a 3.0TDI.
    A pre march 2006 S4 is only £245 a year

    S4 is definitely the way to go, it may be a little costly on fuel but its worth every penny for the noise it makes. Get a tdi next time
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    Cheers. That makes sense about the auto box.

    But that relatively cheap ish tax has thrown a spanner in the works!

    I suppose the other thing to consider is insurance. Being only 27 I'm looking at approx £1000 for the S4 and approx £600 for the 3.0TDi.

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    TDi gets my vote (which might surprise some as an S3 owner). S4 sounds nice but I just found it a little flat performance wise. Of course it's quick, but somehow there seems to be a lot more noise than shove. Still a lovely car, but as someone who is used to turbo power it didn't deliver for me.

    3.0Tdi is a peach of an engine in something like an A4, when we eventually get an A5 it will be the engine I go for.
    Last edited by warren_S3; 8th November 2011 at 07:07.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warren_cox View Post
    TDi gets my vote (which might surprise some as an S3 owner). S4 sounds nice but I just found it a little flat performance wise. Of course it's quick, but somehow there seems to be a lot more noise than shove. Still a lovely car, but as someone who is used to turbo power it didn't deliver for me.

    3.0Tdi is a peach of an engine in something like an A4, when we eventually get an A5 it will be the engine I go for.
    I love petrol turbo'd cars and still miss my stage 2+ 8P S3 as that was an animal, but the diesels don't do it for me in the same way. I drove the 3.0tdi and the 335d and like your experience with the S4 was a bit underwhelmed (though think it could be a different story if they were remapped). Surpised you thought the S4 didn't feel as quick as a standard S3 though. I drove one again recently and thought the S4 felt quicker!
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3-N View Post
    Surprised you thought the S4 didn't feel as quick as a standard S3 though. I drove one again recently and thought the S4 felt quicker!
    My S3 is S2+! (well I say is, the old one was, this ones only done 350 miles so it's running in!).

    We tested an S4 cab 4.2 V8. Roof down it sounded immense, and it is a lovely car, but it didn't really give us any sense of urgency, and I can imagine the exhausts would be big money for little gain. The S3 offered the best blend of performance and precision (obviously with suspension mods) without excessive running costs.

    I looked at the newer S4 with 3.0V6T but don't like the externals of the car design, and the S5 3dr was still a 4.2. There are numerous threads about how the B7 RS4 doesn't make claimed outputs, so at least with another S3, high 300's were a possibility, just with a tepid engine soundtrack.

    I think in summary it just didn't offer enough thrills for the extra burden of tax, fuel, service costs and price of modifications, so a remapped 3.0 TDi will be the one when we go that route (new variant of this engine claimed to have 5.4s 0-60 is new A6!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3-N View Post
    A pre march 2006 S4 is only £245 a year

    S4 is definitely the way to go, it may be a little costly on fuel but its worth every penny for the noise it makes. Get a tdi next time
    Couldnt agree more! And that with me paying £460 a year on road tax (June 2007 model)
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    cheers for the comments guys.

    To be honest I'm leaning towards a remapped 3.0 TDI. Anyone have experience of one of these?

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    How many miles do you anticipate you will be driving each week/month? Maybe this will help with your decision as you can do a quick fuel cost calculation.
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    Around about 1200 a month I think. What sort of mpg do both cars average?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAFkev View Post
    Around about 1200 a month I think. What sort of mpg do both cars average?
    Ok when I had the S4 Tiptronic I regularly was getting 17-20 mpg, and I do drive 'enthusiatically'

    Now with the 3.0TDi same style of driving I am getting 32 - 38 mpg, expect this to improve once the car is mapped as well, also tiptronic and I believe that uses a tad more fuel, although happy to be corrected

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cook View Post
    Ok when I had the S4 Tiptronic I regularly was getting 17-20 mpg, and I do drive 'enthusiatically'

    Now with the 3.0TDi same style of driving I am getting 32 - 38 mpg, expect this to improve once the car is mapped as well, also tiptronic and I believe that uses a tad more fuel, although happy to be corrected
    We must have different styles of enthusiastic!!! Real world, expect around 30 mpg (I very rarely get above that) average. I take it with that amount of miles its mainly motorway, if you're lightfooted you might touch 38 on a long run.
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    yeah, approx 1000 miles of that will be motorway at around 70-80 (when not queing!).

    30mpg seems quite low for a diesil. Would carefull driving on a long journey see over 40mpg?

    I used to have an ex police V70 T5 which was a 2.3T petrol that would see 30mpg on a long drive. And that was only a 5 speed box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAFkev View Post
    yeah, approx 1000 miles of that will be motorway at around 70-80 (when not queing!).

    30mpg seems quite low for a diesil. Would carefull driving on a long journey see over 40mpg?

    I used to have an ex police V70 T5 which was a 2.3T petrol that would see 30mpg on a long drive. And that was only a 5 speed box.
    My 3.0TDi will typically average 45mpg on a long motorway cruise. It's the more general every day mixed driving that sees it drop to the low 30s. But if you compare that with a 3.2 petrol V6 A4, with broadly similar performance, the 3.2 would probably return figures between the high teens and mid 30s.
    A4 3.0TDi SE Quattro Auto. Factory-fit: RNS-E/bluetooth; F/R parking sensors; full leather/heated front seats; cruise. Retrofit: Remap; Eibach 30mm lowering springs, RS4 RARB; MTEC drilled/grooved discs; 18" RS4 alloys; VW fan washers; Kinetic Digitizor DAB; Blackvue DR380 camera; front armrest; ambient lighting; white LED lights; autodim mirror; Cupra splitter; S-Line door blades; tints; UK pressed plates; MFSW; SDS; TPMS; LED Taillights and DRLs.


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    [QUOTE=jdp1962;1412621]My 3.0TDi will typically average 45mpg on a long motorway cruise. It's the more general every day mixed driving that sees it drop to the low 30s. But if you compare that with a 3.2 petrol V6 A4, with broadly similar performance, the 3.2 would probably return figures between the high teens and mid 30s.[/QUOTE

    45mpg, wow. I wish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3-N View Post
    A pre march 2006 S4 is only £245 a year

    S4 is definitely the way to go, it may be a little costly on fuel but its worth every penny for the noise it makes. Get a tdi next time
    I'd agree (not that I can afford either car!). A good friend of mine had essentially the same dilemma recently - S5 or A5 3.0TDI. He drove both and said he was very surprised by how quick the derv was (still 0-60 in 5.9s, IIRC), but as fuel and tax costs weren't really an issue then there was no contest - he went for the S.

    Have driven it a couple of times, and I still do a sex wee every time I hear that V8 sound.
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    I had the exact same decision to make a few ago - either the S4 avant circa 2001 with 4.2 V8 or the 2005/2006 3.0TDI. I test drove an S4 and I thought it was an excellent car - it felt poised, beautiful sound from the V8 definitely quick but not brutal, a nice linear power delivery but I thought a little flat. I decided to go for the 3.0TDI and found a 2005 auto which I have subsequently revo'd . The standard car is excellent, refined but felt a little too relaxed especially given the delay from the autobox. The remap makes this car more aggressive and lively and in sport mode its really good fun and responsive. Ofcourse in traffic you can just slap the auto back into Drive and enjoy and comfort and civility of the ride. typical mpg for me is 35-40

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    I question the 3.2 figures above. I get 30-35 if being miss daisy, otherwise mid to late 20's
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    Quote Originally Posted by razza1 View Post
    I question the 3.2 figures above. I get 30-35 if being miss daisy, otherwise mid to late 20's
    I thought you had a 2.0T, Razza?
    A4 3.0TDi SE Quattro Auto. Factory-fit: RNS-E/bluetooth; F/R parking sensors; full leather/heated front seats; cruise. Retrofit: Remap; Eibach 30mm lowering springs, RS4 RARB; MTEC drilled/grooved discs; 18" RS4 alloys; VW fan washers; Kinetic Digitizor DAB; Blackvue DR380 camera; front armrest; ambient lighting; white LED lights; autodim mirror; Cupra splitter; S-Line door blades; tints; UK pressed plates; MFSW; SDS; TPMS; LED Taillights and DRLs.


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    I have, and would have thought the 3.2 would be worse mpg...
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by razza1 View Post
    I have, and would have thought the 3.2 would be worse mpg...
    Ah, yes, I see what you mean. It may be that the 3.2 is even heavier on fuel tham I suggested, in which case the comparison works even more in favour of the 3.0TDi
    A4 3.0TDi SE Quattro Auto. Factory-fit: RNS-E/bluetooth; F/R parking sensors; full leather/heated front seats; cruise. Retrofit: Remap; Eibach 30mm lowering springs, RS4 RARB; MTEC drilled/grooved discs; 18" RS4 alloys; VW fan washers; Kinetic Digitizor DAB; Blackvue DR380 camera; front armrest; ambient lighting; white LED lights; autodim mirror; Cupra splitter; S-Line door blades; tints; UK pressed plates; MFSW; SDS; TPMS; LED Taillights and DRLs.


 

 

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