3.0 TDI Intake Manifold Runner Problem

[hazey7]

INT MAN RUNNER B2 LOWER LIMIT NOT REACHED fault code.....

So, according to the Independent garage, to fix this tiny fault costs £1200 in parts plus one or two hours labour.

Searching the web finds lots of people ignoring the problem and continuing to drive around. Others say why can't you just replace the runner motor(s) rather than the whole manifold? Can't find anyone who has just replaced the motors and that definitely fixed it.

Anyone got any actual fixes for as least money as possible?

Any advice gratefully received!!

 

[hazey7]

If anyone is interested in following this thread, I posted on the A4 B7 forum and got some great replies.

 

[crispin]

what is up with these cars, they are great on so many levels but have problems that costs 1000's to fix, I feel for you mate, maybe try ebay for 2nd hand. I have just had to replace 6 x injectors that Audi charge £480 EACH for!!!!!!! excluding fitting, the car has only done 75,000 miles, I found them on ebay 2nd hand £500 all in but it took ages to find them and I was lucky. you fix one issue and then you may have another? I would say look on the internet for ages as you may find a fix, you never know?? good luck.

 

[hazey7]

Seems incredible that basically a tiny plastic rod on the end of a flap breaks or becomes slightly worn and brings up a fault that then requires the whole inlet manifold to be replaced.

What with this problem, the injectors and the probability that the turbo won't last either I am seriously considering getting shut of this car.
However, I do think that for this problem there is a 'workaround' .... to be continued.

 

[murran]

hang on, we had this at work last week, the motor itself has the position sensor in. motor 2 is the one on the n/s. if you pull the engine cover off, find the motor..... with the engine ticking over can you push the rod with your finger or does the motor resist you? try the o/s one too.....

what quite often happens with these is the motor works fine but the position sensor (integral to the motor itself) packs up giving this fault.
do you have the facility to do an actuator test on your diagnostics? you will find the motor moves between its range of movement but the actual value stays at 89%. if this is the case it wants the motor replacing!

if not..... swap the motors side to side. they might look sided but they arnt. one is upside down! clear the fault codes. run the basic setting and go for a test drive, if the fault comes back, see if it now says motor 1 if it does then it just wants the motor replacing. if it still says motor 2 then theres a mechanical problem with the flaps in the manifold itself. resisting the motors movement.

the one we had at work, we replaced the motor and it hasnt been back, so i think you could call it fixed.

 

[hazey7]

I wonder why Audi and (at least the garage I dealt with) want to replace the whole inlet manifold? Is it that the motors can't be purchased by themselves?

 

[elan2s]

I suspect it all comes down to economics (on their side not ours!!) It is simpler (and quicker for the garage) to simply swap the whole manifold rather than all of the individual parts that go into it. Doesn't rely on the mechanic remembering to order all of the right pieces or indeed (heaven forbid) actually doing something that takes a bit of skill and knowledge. Also reduces the number of individual line items each Audi dealer (or country) needs to keep in stock to support all of the current and previous model ranges. Sounds as if Murran above, is a mechanic of the old school where repair is better than replace. Probably find the motors have to be sourced from the manufacturer rather than Audi

 

[murran]

actually, and i could believe it myself given i had just been reading this thread..... a q7 came in today for confirmation on what gilders have told him.
same fault as you have on motor 2.
but its not the motor but the what the rod connects to on the manifold has quite obviously come adrift....... something tells me this is going to be causing problems on ALL 3.0l tdi's at some point.

also i changed probably my 15th throttle body on a bkd engined car today (a seat leon as it happens).

 

[Gavin0478]

is it not worth keeping all the broken ones and possibly makeing some good ones out of them?

 

[wjam]

I'd just prefer to fix the damn things open (there is even a handy lug to bolt them too) and plug in some form of emulator so that the ECU doesn't throw a MIL. Doe anyone know of successful emulation for Audi ?? Then i can chuck the motors in the bin.

I tried a fix using rod end bearing from RS. It sort of worked, but I noticed the lower joint flexing. and sometimes that triggered the MIL. I suspect I could get it right with a little time and effort, but I simply cannot be bothered any more.

Basically the whole assembly is p1ss poor plastic rubbish designed to fail and take your money. And the benefit is questionable. My car even idles smoother when it's not working :-|

But as I type I think a little more. If the end stops were adjustable - on the motor housing - then a slightly loose linkage wouldn't matter. Basically Audi engineer this as a "will fail" component by having a motor that has it's end stops defined by the distance the flaps travel via a linkage... And this encourages wear.. which is of course the plan.

OR if you could reprogram the ECU to look for 10% tolerance then it would last for years and years. Someone on the forums must know how to do that???

cheers

WJAM

 

[hazey7]

Someone answered this 3.0 Inlet manifold thread on the A4 B7 forum and stated there is a 2% tolerance for wear on these little rods before the MIL is set off.

Really poor design.

 

[gary911]

Agreed this a very poor design my first a4 had both these replaced within warranty and I believe this was also a recall done free of charge .
My current B7 3ltr has only covered 35,000 miles and same problem although it only puts the management light on intermittently .

There is no detrimental effect to the running the car and not noticeable in performance but this will affect the low down torque slightly . I have seen these manifolds for sale in Germany an claim to be with reinforced linkage and carry a long warranty and about £200 each,
The suggestion of resetting the ECU software with more tolerance would be a brilliant method if only someone could do it!.

 

[desertstorm]

It's possible to map this out of the car and then just remove all the hardware. Quite often the problem can be resolved by a simple replacement of the rod that links the motor and the actual flaps.That's what I did on my car when It popped on the EML a few times intermittently. Not seen it since. The problem is with older cars there is more wear in the whole mechanism including the flaps and the shaft itself which add to the issues.
On the newer cars 245bhp on they redesigned the inlet manifold so essentially the incoming air is divided into 2 separate paths and these engines won't suffer from these issues.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Audi-2...-A4-A5-A6-A8-Q7-TOUAREG-PHAETON-/331642618262

 

[Paul @ Unit 9 Remaps]

we should be able to do this, heres a simular post

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/a8-4-0-v8-tdi-manifold-flaps-removed.257593/

 

[Clyde Brenton]

INT MAN RUNNER B2 LOWER LIMIT NOT REACHED fault code.....

So, according to the Independent garage, to fix this tiny fault costs £1200 in parts plus one or two hours labour.

Searching the web finds lots of people ignoring the problem and continuing to drive around. Others say why can't you just replace the runner motor(s) rather than the whole manifold? Can't find anyone who has just replaced the motors and that definitely fixed it.

Anyone got any actual fixes for as least money as possible?

Any advice gratefully received!!

H

 

[Clyde Brenton]

INT MAN RUNNER B2 LOWER LIMIT NOT REACHED fault code.....

So, according to the Independent garage, to fix this tiny fault costs £1200 in parts plus one or two hours labour.

Searching the web finds lots of people ignoring the problem and continuing to drive around. Others say why can't you just replace the runner motor(s) rather than the whole manifold? Can't find anyone who has just replaced the motors and that definitely fixed it.

Anyone got any actual fixes for as least money as possible?

Any advice gratefully received!!

Hi guys I had the same problem with my TDI 3.0 quattro audi quoted me 1400, job included to replace the manifold. But I found this on the internet, bought it and it worked perfectly. Saved me tons of money.

INT MAN RUNNER B2 LOWER LIMIT NOT REACHED fault code.....

So, according to the Independent garage, to fix this tiny fault costs £1200 in parts plus one or two hours labour.

Searching the web finds lots of people ignoring the problem and continuing to drive around. Others say why can't you just replace the runner motor(s) rather than the whole manifold? Can't find anyone who has just replaced the motors and that definitely fixed it.

Anyone got any actual fixes for as least money as possible?

Any advice gratefully received!!

Hi guys I myself had the same dreaded problem until I bought a simple fix from Dieselgeek and it worked. Audi quoted me 1400 for a for a complete replacement of both manifold for my TDI 3.0 quattro. Now my audi is driving smooth again. Look up this site "V6 TDI CR P2015 and 8213 fix"
also look up this site "Audi 3.0TDI intake manifold replacement"

 

[BrendanM]

Bringing this thread alive again folks!

I'm having the same problem on a 2007 3.0 TDI engine. Fault code is showing up on bank 2. Took the car to a recommended Audi specialist and he replaced the control motor but after 60 miles the warning light came on again and the following codes are showing:

OBD2 - confirmed:
P2011 - Intake Manifold Runner Control Circuit/Open Bank 2

OBD2 - pending:
P2011 - Intake Manifold Runner Control
Circuit/Open Bank 2

Engine:
P1018 - Intake manifold runner bank 2, lower limit not reached

Same faults as before the control motor was replaced and I'm £400 worse off. The mechanic has said the new control motor must be faulty and has directed me to Audi to do a claim under warranty - pretty certain he knows that it's unlikely to be faulty but he doesn't want to investigate any further.

I'm 99% certain the problem isn't with the new control motor so there's no point taking the car to Audi. They told me there will be £99 diagnostic fee if they find the control motor not to be faulty. I'm pretty certain it has to be the swirl flaps or the arms?

How difficult are these to replace?

Thanks in advance for any help guys. I need to get this resolved now after having already spent 400 big ones unnecessarily.