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  1. #1
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    B6 S4 V8 into a B5 Q 2.8

    Hello Gents. This ones more of a "can I without too much ballache" than a "Can I", because obviously (what with the previous conversions) it can be done. Would it be the same as the other V8 into a B5 conversions I have read about? I ask this because I am planning on putting one from a B6 S4 in. I've just sold some shares and its freed up a bit of money. I was going to get rid of the 2.8 and buy a B5 RS4, but I think this would be more interesting and fun. So, what would be involved, what do I need for it (Obviously the donor engine!doh!) and how well/badly would the B5 chassis cope with it? I havn't got the time to do it myself now as work commitments have surpassed my free time, so the actual swap would be done by either someone on here or a good garage, but I would like to have all the parts ready so it would be a matter of 1) Take old engine out 2) Put everything in place mounts etc for the V8 to go in and 3) drop in the V8.
    I can't see any reason why the transition shouldn't be as smooth as that if everything is good to go and the chassis is primed. Any expertese/knowledge/advice/know how on this would be tremendousely appreciated.

    Many Thanks in advance.........

    Ollie
    Last edited by phoenixv6quattro; 12th June 2010 at 22:06.
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  3. #2
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    In some ways the B6 S4 engine might be an easier conversion, as the C5 A6 uses the same engine, and the front subframe mountings etc will swap over, so you shouldnt even need to make your own engine mounts.

    You need a custom flywheel to take the RS4 clutch (although the B6 engine might already be manual??), then tweaking for the PAS/coolant/AC hoses.

    Problem is that its not all guaranteed to work out the box, things will need tweaked, adjusted etc, so while its a relatively streight forward transplant, i wouldnt think its quite a case of bolt it in and drive off.

    Also, with an RS4, you're going to be losing about 40hp? Stock RS makes 380hp, and can easily be mapped to 450ish. The V8 makes 340 iirc, and its not going to make any more very easily, unless your planning a turbo conversion or something?

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  4. #3
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Aragorn. I am planning on dropping in something like this..........

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audi-S4-BBK-4-...item1c12ce5782

    But first I need to find out exactly what I need to make it as ballache free as possible.

    Ref the 40+bhp I think a 340bhp B5 will suffice. As we all know as soon as you start increasing the power on anything, thats when the probs start and things start to get broken/fail. After having some very very fast turbo'd cars (My old Supra was 480bhp @the wheels!!) I'm sticking with normally aspirated for now as there are less things to think/worry about and less things that can fail. Although thats coming from my head not my heart because NOTHING is as much fun as a forced induced motor......
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  5. #4
    Soupie69uk's Avatar
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    Would be nice to have a V8 in a b5 but I think I would choose the RS4 over one as it has the wide arches etc and looks amazing plus is a lot less hassle.

    Or I would just get a b6 S4 as they are getting good value now!
    A4 1.8T Quattro

  6. #5
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    B5 V8 FTW, one day i will do it ( with Aragorns Knowledge) prob soon by the sounds of my car when warm...

  7. #6
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Ok well issues i can see:

    Exhausts will be bespoke items, or at the very least bespoke downpipes into an S4/RS4 system. Siena found the 2.6 v6 system connected streight up to his engine, but that was a 32v unit.
    Immo will need messed around with, probably easier doing that than trying to make the B6 clocks work in a B5 though.
    Coolant pipework and radiator etc will need messed with. B6 parts MIGHT fit a B5, but i doubt you'll know for sure until you try it.
    PAS and AC pipework will require some thaught. Siena used a 1.8T pump in the v8 mount, but again this might not apply to the 40v engine.
    Throttle on the B6 motor will be electronic. If your lucky the electronic pedal from the B5 S4/2.8/etc will work, if not you'll have to try grafting the B6 pedal into the B5.

    Theres probably more.

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  8. #7
    CraigG's Avatar
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    id just go for a b6 S4 personally a much nicer car than a B5 imo
    Imola S4 - Bilstein B6 + Eibach Prokit, Anthracite BBS Pescara 18x7.5"

  9. #8
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I dunno. I think the B6 saloon is bloody horrible compared with a B5. The avant is better, but i dont like the nose. B7 OTOH is a proper step forward.

    If i was buying a different car, it'd be a C5 A6 4.2 or S6, would need to transplant a manual box into it though.

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  10. #9
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    There is a guy on audizine that put a v8 from an A6 in his B5 and that was flyby wire and worked with his cars flyby wire http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...p-into-2001-A4

    The AC compressor and PAS pump are built in on the b6 s4 is all run off the timing chains at the rear of the engine. The BBK engine is alot shorter than the engine siena used so should fit in easier with not much chopping I should think but then I am no expert.

    If you do it with the bbk put the webbers on it like on one of those installs on the ebay link
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  11. #10
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Webbers? Blech its not 1975 man!

    The ebay link shows ITB's, ie its fuel injected, not carbed.

    Didnt realise the B6 S4 engine was rear anciliary drive, thaught that was limited to the later 32V FSI engines. No idea how that would affect the conversion though. I guess it would depend if the bellhousing was normal, but as long as it is then it shouldnt make tooo much of a difference. Might mean the engine mounts need to be custom again though, unless the B6 mounts fit the B5 subframe.

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  12. #11
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies gents. I just don't want an RS4 now after I found out all the premiums they command, and am more of a fan of the b5 than the B6 or 7. I'm on the search now for a specialist conversion mechanic/establishment that know the ins and outs of these things. Keep you all posted.
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  13. #12
    dsmclark40v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    Webbers? Blech its not 1975 man!

    The ebay link shows ITB's, ie its fuel injected, not carbed.

    Didnt realise the B6 S4 engine was rear anciliary drive, thaught that was limited to the later 32V FSI engines. No idea how that would affect the conversion though. I guess it would depend if the bellhousing was normal, but as long as it is then it shouldnt make tooo much of a difference. Might mean the engine mounts need to be custom again though, unless the B6 mounts fit the B5 subframe.
    Ah right, the last time I looked into anything like that was when I had my old mini. and just saw the ebay picture quickly. feel a bit silly now.
    not sure about the rear ancillary drive either, can't remember where I read that now but I saw it somewhere when mine was having timing chain issues, so could have been about the b7 rs4. well easier then if mine goes wrong as it won't be an engine out job! again

    Edit: aragorn just found where I read it, it was on audizine where justincredible (I think he's a member on here) stripped down a bbk Click click on post 94
    Last edited by dsmclark40v; 14th June 2010 at 22:19.
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  14. #13
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Yep that sure is rear anciliary drive! All part of audis attempts to reduce the defecit from having the entire engine mounted infront of the axle!! I just didnt realise they did it on non-FSI engines.

    I think for a transplant, i'd be avoiding that one, and either using the earlier A6 40v engine which i think has normal belt driven anciliaries, or if not sticking with the earlier 32v motor as fitted to the A8/S8!

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  15. #14
    jcb
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    TBH if 15k for an RS4 is too much then I wouldn't go down this route of dropping an B7 V8 into a B5.
    http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/lis...ter=TP&o=q&pc=

    If you factor in whatever the original car is worth, the cost of the engine and then all the parts custom or not then you will be spending a lot more than you think. even if you are doing the bulk of the work yourself. if you are not then it will cost even more than that

    no matter how much I try to convince myself that I did an engine and turbo build on a shoestring it always costs more than you think or plan for.

  16. #15
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    And theres no beating the RS4 body!

    I agree with JCB, and if it was me with $$$ in the bank, i think i'd be looking for an RS4. If the engine ****s the bed then i wouldnt hesitate to pull it out and nail a twin turbo V8 in there instead though :P

    Would probably make enough selling the saught after RS4 engine parts to pay for the conversion too!

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
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  17. #16
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Hello again Gents. When I said "premiums they command" I didn't mean the price to buy one, I meant running costs and insurance to name but a few. I did originally want to buy one, keep the 2.8, and only drive it when the urge gripped me........But I know that urge will grip me everyday! So I be able to behave myself!lol! Yeah I agree theres no beating that wide body! I have already got an insurance quote from green light and adrian flux for a b5 with an s4 v8 conversion and its a still a hell of a lot cheaper than insuring a standard rs4!!! I'm 27, 3 years no claims and been driving 6 years. As we all know ownership of an entry level super car (rs4 etc) ends up actually costing more than the price you paid for the car after a bit, especially if you modify. My Supra ended up costing me almost twice as much as I paid for her in the end. I dont need the headache!
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  18. #17
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I dont really see how the running costs would be all that different?

    The mechanicals are largely the same. The only exceptions are the brakes and engine, but lets face it, your not going to fit a 350hp V8 and drive around on the stock brakes anyway, and theres no guarantee a transplanted V8 motor is any more reliable than a 2.7TT.

    Insurance is a fair point though. Out of interest, what were you quoted for a V8 powered B5?

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    Not meaning to gloat, but I pay like 200 a year for the S4, through Elephant. That does include a discount though, as I work for Confused.com. Still, it's cheap. Soon as you start modding though, regardless of what it is, they start loading the premium as your the type of person who will push the limits on the road...
    1999 S4, MIJ Performance exhaust with 100 cell cats

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    jcb
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    ha ha, doesn't matter if its an RS4 onr a 1litre micra...I am still going to push the limits!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicDeathmonkey View Post
    Soon as you start modding though, regardless of what it is, they start loading the premium as your the type of person who will push the limits on the road...
    Not necessarily true. Using an insurance company that deals with modified cars helps a lot here.
    My track car is cheaper to insure than the std car would be (I also have a std version of the same car so know this to be true) & is also far cheaper than my std Audi despite being a track-biased car with better performance all round.
    These days some insurers appreciate that a modded car is much more likely to be treated with respect and looked after better than the average shopping cart or rep-mobile.

  22. #21
    jcb
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    my adrian Flux quote for my car now modded was less than the Admiral/Churchill/Coop quotes when it was standard.
    They were so good I shifted my wife's golf onto them as well

  23. #22
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    I dont really see how the running costs would be all that different?

    The mechanicals are largely the same. The only exceptions are the brakes and engine, but lets face it, your not going to fit a 350hp V8 and drive around on the stock brakes anyway, and theres no guarantee a transplanted V8 motor is any more reliable than a 2.7TT.

    Insurance is a fair point though. Out of interest, what were you quoted for a V8 powered B5?
    For starters most of the running gear (tyres,discs,pads etc) are a HELL of a lot more expensive. I mean we're talking about hundreds of pounds difference per item!! Its always the smaller things that you don't consider that hit you the hardest (for example decent tyres for my old gtr cost over a grand for four corners). Then when (not if) things go wrong its much more expensive to fix, and spares for the engine etc are not in abundance like the ordinary B5......Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to convince myself NOT to get one, I just weighed up the pros and cons and think (know) a conversion will be significantly cheaper. The quote I got from Green Light was a shade over a grand 3rd party fire and theft. You can almost double that (for me) for an RS4!!!
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  24. #23
    jcb
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    255/35/18 or 245/40/18 are largely the same price and I wouldn't run anything smaller TBH.
    I wouldn't consider running anything less than B5 RS4 discs/calipers up front and you can get a set of front and back for a little over 300 used.

    think you will be surprisedhow much it wil cost to do the conversion.

    just out of interest how old and hpw many years ncb do you have?
    did you get a quote for an rs4?

  25. #24
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    I am 27 yrs and have been driving since 2003 (so I'm a relatively "inexperienced" driver as far as the insurance companies are concerned). I have no points on my licence and I am a member of IAM and also high speed pursuit and defensive/offensive driver trained (both obtained through the army/mod for work in northern ireland a long time ago).
    Ref tyres a 225 goodyear is around the 100 mark, and a 255 around the 150 mark. So on all 4 thats a BIG difference in price! Ref discs, I wouldn't go near any part thats highly stressed if it were second hand. Too much riding on it to risk it. I can see your point though.
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    Soupie69uk's Avatar
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    That is shocking for your insurance mate. I pay just over 300 for my car at the moment and an RS4 would be 382 with a 350 excess through Admiral.

    I am 25 and have 3 years no claims. Plus I have 3 points.
    A4 1.8T Quattro

  27. #26
    2000 a4 1.8tqs-yellow

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    Im 27 and im about 200 fully comp on my TQS. cant complain.

  28. #27
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    I must live in a rough area....

    38 and eleventy billion years NCB and a tad under 300 with protected NCB/Breakdown

    V8 FTW, go for it Ollie, seeing the only other 2 i have ever heard or seen in the UK are now demised...

  29. #28
    phoenixv6quattro's Avatar
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    Thanks Mark. The area I live in has a Slough postcode and carcrime is rife where I live. When I was in the army my GTR (because it was kept in a barracks, not much car crime going on in there!) I was paying the same price as I am paying now for ny 2.8 (382 gbp's 3rd party f and t). Where it is kept overnight and your postal area are the biggest influencing factors. Just a few weeks ago there was 30 prestige cars taken within a 3 mile radius in a single night. I live inside that circle. Its like gone in 60 secs!lol! They got the cars by getting the keys via burglary and then co-ordinating the operation so it was done in just a few hours. They then drove the cars 30 miles away in all directions and abandoned them to see if the trackers were activated/signal was followed. They police only recovered 4 of the cars. One was a friends 2009 RS6 he very luckily got back! Funnt thing is if I gave the insurance coy my sisters post code in the sticks of cornwall it lowers it by 60%!!!! Now thats just massive!!!
    Last edited by phoenixv6quattro; 19th June 2010 at 08:12.
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  30. #29
    jcb
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    I think you need to shop around for tyres, my 145/40 goodyear GSD3's cost me 102 each. 255's were 6 more from mytyres/blackcircles.

    on the insurance tip I must be getting shafted! I pay 400 f/c now at 37 with 5 years NCB.
    They want 600 when I get round to dropping in the engine and turbo (apparently a 115% increase in power is unusual!!)

 

 

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