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  1. #1
    calvin's Avatar
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    Angry Siena REALLY DID F@@K up my car... (and another rattle query)

    Its ok, I'm not going to go over all the old ground again here, however, today one of the last few gripes and faults that my car has had ever since Siena "fixed" a list of problems was fixed... by my local non-affiliated garage / mechanic place that (sadly) I usually only give my works van and the like to.

    I have been chasing a variety of clonks and creaks from the front nether regions of my S4 - Its had a new top control arm, drop links checked, and I've been round all th mounts I could find - it felt like the whole subframe was loose, but I couldnt see anything obvious that might be loose so disregarded that notion.

    Anyway, in desparation (I dont have a ramp and have little spare time to crawl all over the car right now) and after another specialist Audi garage couldnt find anything of note, I took it into my local guys TODAY - and the mechanic called me to tell me that:

    Front subframe mounting bolts were mostly loose
    Gearbox / bellhousing bolts all loose
    Starter motor bolts loose
    Front restraining strap (I am not sure quite what he meant there) was loose and misaligned.

    I cant believe I've driven about 3000 miles as these have got more and more loose!


    So, now my car drives like it hasnt for ages (like no rattles, creaks, clonks or knocks!) and I am only left with one major concern:

    It has a horrible mettalic "rattle" that sounds like its originating around the left hand (from inside) exhaust heatsheild (and sounds exactly like it IS the heatshield, but thats been replaced and triple checked!) that only occurs when the engine is under load, like on accelleration or if I change up a gear early then try and accelerate.

    Its baffled everyone who's looked at it, though the garage today are going to have it back in tomorrow to have another look - they are mumbling gearbox and clutch....

    Siena supposedly changed my flywheel and clutch for an uprated clutch assembly and non dual-mass flywheel - I have NO guarantee or confidence that he actually did all of this, other than my clutch now doesnt slip..

    It doesnt SOUND like a grumbling bearing on the gearbox, and with the car on a lift, if you tap the left hand exhaust with a soft hammer, you can hear a tinkley rattle up near the manifold on that side - at the last garage they suspected the turbo actuator arm but we seemed to eradicate that by holding it (still made a rattle)

    Does anyone have any thoughts or notions as to what it might be?
    '98 S4 with MRC remap and gutted pre-cats - Now SOLD.
    '70 Siva Minibug beachbuggy with Supercharged 1275 A-series
    '89 VW T3 Westfalia poptop 2.1 petrol
    '52 RenaultSport Clio 172 Cup
    '52 Smart FourTwo (it is a turbo!) for when everything else is being mended...

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  3. #2
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    hi mate have you checked your catalytic converters when the internal honeycomb breaks up it sounds like a tin box full of nails this can happen through age high milage or thermal shock ie driving through deep puddles of standing water when the cold water splashes on the hot cat the thermal shock can cause the honeycomb in the cat to break up

  4. #3
    Broken Byzan's Avatar
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    your car is prefacelift isnt it?

    There is a well known problem with ex manifolds as they can break up inside and cause a rattle and then by extension take out the EGR sensor for that bank at the same time.
    I understand there was a TSB and recall for it a good few years ago, if thats what it is.

    Otherwise i can assume you have some kind of chattering from the FW, is it under load, idle etc

  5. #4
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    If it sounds like a heatshield its quite likely to be the exhuast manifold.

    As mark syas it can kill the EGT sensor, but it can also break up and drop nice big chunks of metal into the turbocharger.

    I find it hard to believe the flywheel would cause problems under load, as under load any slack that was present is taken up... They usually rattle at idle, or when slipping the clutch.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  6. #5
    calvin's Avatar
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    ooooooh. hang on!

    When my left hand turbo died, it was immediate and the damage was immense. The impellor was sheared and the vanes damaged - was my manifold breaking up at that point I wonder!?

    I looked for a reason but was not aware the ex mani was such a complex beasty and had internals rattling around in it!

    F@ck!

    I will stop driving it then for the moment, until the breaking up manifold issue is cleared up or I am reassured!

    I am assuming this is engine out again - this is getting stupid! (3 times in last year already!)???

    Fingers crossed that the recall applies to my car too - purleeeeeeeze!?
    '98 S4 with MRC remap and gutted pre-cats - Now SOLD.
    '70 Siva Minibug beachbuggy with Supercharged 1275 A-series
    '89 VW T3 Westfalia poptop 2.1 petrol
    '52 RenaultSport Clio 172 Cup
    '52 Smart FourTwo (it is a turbo!) for when everything else is being mended...

  7. #6
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    would they still carry out a recall after all these years? (saying that, Mitsubishi carried out a recall on my sister's shogun when it was the best part of 15-16 years old)

  8. #7
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Sounds very much like it mate. No idea if they'll still do the recall, but i'd be seriously pissed at whoever changed the turbo last time didnt change or at least inspect the manifold.

    And yes, unfortunately its another engine out job afaik.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  9. #8
    calvin's Avatar
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    ok. will draw a line on this thread and see if I can get me some evidence of others who have had this done under the recall - then decide whether the car finally has to go and buy me a volvo (!) or if I can dip even deeper into my pockets and fix this (perhaps I will upgrade to K04's or hybrids and make me a REAL monster....mmmm)

    if anyone has had this recall done, please let me know - I started a new thread here
    '98 S4 with MRC remap and gutted pre-cats - Now SOLD.
    '70 Siva Minibug beachbuggy with Supercharged 1275 A-series
    '89 VW T3 Westfalia poptop 2.1 petrol
    '52 RenaultSport Clio 172 Cup
    '52 Smart FourTwo (it is a turbo!) for when everything else is being mended...

  10. #9
    calvin's Avatar
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    <ahem> - It was me who changed the turbos first time, but Siena had the car from me straight after and took the engine out again, tasked with testing the new turbos and all related parts......
    '98 S4 with MRC remap and gutted pre-cats - Now SOLD.
    '70 Siva Minibug beachbuggy with Supercharged 1275 A-series
    '89 VW T3 Westfalia poptop 2.1 petrol
    '52 RenaultSport Clio 172 Cup
    '52 Smart FourTwo (it is a turbo!) for when everything else is being mended...

  11. #10
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    If you can pull the engine yourself then just get stuck in.

    Its a days work to pull the motor and check the manifolds...

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  12. #11
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    A lightweight flywheel will chatter when you are trying to accellerate in too high a gear. It's not a problem, merely a 'side-effect' of fitting one. The first time I drove an S4 with a lightened flywheel I thought there was something wrong with it. But i've since driven a few and they are all the same.

    Very unlikely Audi would still warranty this as a recall item now, especially given that you have had an engnie pull done by an independant garage. I'd be quite surprised if your manifolds hadn't been checked when you had your turbos replaced. For all that was written about Siena, he did seem to know his stuff and I can't imagine he wouldn't have been aware of the manifold issue on pre-facelift cars. Any decent mechanic should be looking into why a turbo has failed rather than just replacing it, be it from eating a foreign object, oil starvation (blocked/leaking oil lines), etc.

    This is a very interesting read regarding the manifold problem, and I think from memory there is a link to a sound clip on the thread which may help you diagnose - http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=...anifold+rattle

    If you are unfortunate enough for it to be the case, your best bet is to get hold of a pair of facelift S4 or RS4 manifolds (they are the same), then get them inspected and rewelded for additional strength if neccessary. Really, if you're having to go through it all again, you want to make sure the job is done by someone who knows S4's inside out. At least then they could suggest any other problem areas which are worth taking a look at whilst the engine is out.

    Unfortunately it is an engine out job to replace (or even inspect) the manifolds. I feel your pain... my engine had to be pulled 4 times in the space of 10 months!
    Mo power, mo problems

  13. #12
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    ive spent a fair bit of time under the bonnet of mine. id cry my eyes at at the thought of having to reconnect all those hoses and wires afterwards. youll never remember what connects to what!

  14. #13
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    Sorry, took forever to write my post before and hadn't seen your response Calvin. If you managed the engine pull before, I'd say give it a go again.

    If you're looking to upgrade turbos at the same time then it's probably worth a look at the RP 'K04' turbos. Someone on AudiSRS has just bought a pair, the first in the UK as far as i'm aware. He's doing the work himself too. They've got great write-ups over in the US and I think they come in at around at just over a grand for the turbos.
    Mo power, mo problems

  15. #14
    docurley's Avatar
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    Funny you should say about bolts not being tightend he forgot to tighten my front drive shaft which I did myself after it fell off, lucky I was not on the motorway.
    Black Audi RS4 2006 Exclusive edition, Black optic option (stock for now)

  16. #15
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    Right, I have exactly the same symptoms on my 2.8. Only under load, coming from front nearside, rattly metallic sound....I have been told its likely to be the cam chain tensioner/guide. Its not very loud, you have to be tuned into it to hear it, but its def there!.....Never really got to the bottom of it.
    IT COULD ALWAYS BE WORSE SO KEEP ON SMILING

  17. #16
    audinary's Avatar
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    This Cat issue:- Is this S4 only or is my 78k 1.8T cat gonna 'splode into my manifold?

    '98 Santorin Blue 1.8t Sport

  18. #17
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    1.8T manifolds are just cast iron, so theres no worries there.

    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Avant, Berry Pearl
    2000 A4 1.8T Sport Quattro Saloon, Black-ish
    1997 S4 - PPC £999 Challenge Track Car Build
    TD5 Land Rover Defender build


  19. #18
    audinary's Avatar
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    That's cool. Have a three hundredth thank you!

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by audinary View Post
    This Cat issue:- Is this S4 only or is my 78k 1.8T cat gonna 'splode into my manifold?
    Very very unlikely, unless the exhaust gas is travelling the wrong way (and for some random reason you have a faulty exploding Cat). Even then, the turbo would take the brunt of it. lol
    Mo power, mo problems

  21. #20
    audinary's Avatar
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    Oh yeah.

    You know when you put all your effort into typing rather than thinking.......!

    I guess the Cat debris would only go into the manifold when you're in reverse and the engine turns the other way......

    Keep drinking, audinary

  22. #21
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    I have a weird rattle that comes from mine under load, I got told it was probably the pre-cats, as when the car was up on ramps, it was quite clear when taping exhaust with hammer were the rattle came from. I was also told that the K03's have any issue were a part in the turbo breaks off inside. This will then rattle, but not kill turbo??? It seems to be a nightmare when ever something goes on these cars, as there always 100 different reasons for the problem!!!!!
    2000 B5 S4 - MRC Remap - RS2 Sparks - Pipercross Element (dried) + Modified Airbox - Forge Divs - Samco Hose's - KW's dropped 50mm - 18" RONAL R41 in gun metal grey - Black Diamond Combi Disc's + Predator Pads - Brushed Alloy Mirrors - Short Shifter - Full Recaro - Carbon Trim - Bose. More to come, watch this space.......

  23. #22
    Broken Byzan's Avatar
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    Anything that falls into a turbo spinning at 20 thousand revs has the potential to break them, even something small and plastic can be enough to throw the balance off and have the turbo lunch itself.

 

 

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