K04 turbo upgrade GB

RichA3Turbo

RichA3Turbo

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Woul anyone be interested in a K04 upgrade for their A4 1.8T/1.8T Quattro if i were to do a GB on them?

they are K04.15 turbos which are a direct replacement for the K03 setup that you currently use. They can be used on standard software/chipepd software without being re-seup, but obviously with a remap to suite, its full potential would be relased. you would be looking at around 250bhp and 260lb/ft depending on the map

Pricewise, you'd be looking at arounf £560+vat for the turbo and fitting kit.

Installation will be relatively straight forward as the turbo on the A4 is so accessible... I reckon it can be done in 3 hours start to finish!

Let me know your thoughts!

Rich
 
Sounds interesting. Is it literally a straight swap, ie take out K03, put in K04 and that's the only thing that changes? I'm sure I've read about having to change manifolds etc, but is that with the different type(s) of K04? Also the K04 kits sold by AMD and the like seem to be around 2 grand; is this basically the same thing? Are the turbos brand new?

I've been thinking about doing a remap soon, but if this can be done for around the same money it obviously opens the door to bigger power futher down the road.

I think for me it hinges on just how easy the job is; I can afford to get a remap done, and could afford to buy this kit, but I'd be pushing it if it's not something me and the fatha could do! How much of a specialised job is it?

My engine code is AEB (I think!), so what bearing on the power increase on standard software would it have?

Cheers,

Drew.

 
Drew, straight swap mate /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif You will see the same gains as a chip with the 15, but it will leave the door open for 240 when you get a remap done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
DEFINATELY sounds interesting! So would it run smooth on standard software, or is a remap something that needs doing more or less as soon as the K04 is in?

Time to cram in some overtime. 240 here I come.......!
 
It would run jsut as smooth on the current software, jut not as quick as if you were to get it remapped. As Excursion says, straight swap...Nothing needs replacing unless you break it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
For the price, its probably the best upgrade for the A4.

So whos in?

Rich
 
Give me a day or two to assess finances. It's a hypothetical YES for me!
 
I could well be up for this, is the £560 +vat the group buy price? Would you offer an all inclusive price including fitting?
 
Hi Rich,

I'm up for this GB if it happens very soon. My car is in bits and I need a new turbo asap. Can you advise on how this will work - do you need a minimum quantity to reach group buy status? Many thanks Simon.
 
As already pointed out the turbo is a straight swap for the original and remap is required to alter the fuelling and boost.

The 240bhp that is being discussed - is that with standard air filter, exhaust, cat, intercooler and injectors. i.e. no other mods. Has anyone actually done this i.e. swap only the turbo for a K04-015 and then had their car RR'd?

I think anyone doing this (me included) better improve the brakes on the car as they can barely cope with 150bhp!!
 
Would absolutely love to get that upgrade, but unfortunately any spare cash is tied up elsewhere at the mo. Is this a limited time deal, or will you be doing it for a while?

Cheers
 
Hey hey hey... What kind of K04 are we talking here? You do know that the K04-01 (commonly known as K03s that bolts on) has a bigger brother?? I checked out KKK and they have two turbos called A4 Upgrade. One is rated at 210hp and the other one is rated at 240hp. Now, remember that KKK themselves said that the K03s (K04-01) wasn't good for more than 215hp (?) (search in the A3/S# forum!). Now, bash those numbers all you want, the interesting thing is that they are currently selling a turbo for the A4 rated at 240hp (about 25hp more!). Well worth looking into! They also sell another A4 Upgrade rated at 210hp - guessing that it's a K04-01, the ol' K03s....

The 240-horser is called BW# 5316 988 6717 and it's listed as "Audi A4 Upgrade". Is this the one the GB concerns?
 
Hey Henrik,

Thanks for posting this. I just had a look too. See
www.turbodriven.com
search 'Audi' and then 'A4 upgraded'.

Two turbos are listed:

5304 988 0015 - 210hp

and

5316 988 6717 - 240hp

Maybe Rich can comment, I'm assuming that it's the first one as it's numbers are the best fit for K04-015? These hp figures, are they the maximum under ideal conditions?
 
Mark

What do you reckon I can expect to gain by changing to the K04-015 with my car already being chipped to circa 190bhp? Do not really want to shell out £600+ if Im only going to get another say 10-15bhp.
 
Madkebab,

Mate I am also Supperchipped. At the time I wasnt planning on any other mods so went for a generic chip instead of traveling 200 miles to AMD for a remap. However I shorty changed my mind but all is not lost if you want to upgrade to a K04-15. Superchips have already done a software update for a A4 with K04-15 and they state that the software is free but you will have to pay the local distributor who chipped your car their labour rates for changing the software.

Noting that this is prob not as good as an AMD remap (I personnaly dont think its that far off) but they certainly can map the boost upto 1.3 bar with fuel timming etc with it. If you just bolt the turbo straight on and your car holds 1.0 bar (which it should be as its chipped) you should get 220-230 bhp @ the fly. If you change your software & perhaps a N75J then you should be looking at 240-250 bhp @ fly with a potential max of 260-270 with further extensive & expensive mods.
 
Thanks welshdragon that is very useful information. 220-230bhp @ the fly doesn't sound bad at all. Think I'll phone Superchips to get some further info. Rich - When do you need to know by for the GB?
 
Yeah, OK. I haven't gotten a reply for this from KKK yet though. MTM does have a exh. manifold for the K16, no price tag though.

The K16 are easy to find cheap if you buy a used one - now I know this might sound wierd, buying used turbos feels like a no-no but there are bargains to be made. The K16, and it's baby brother K14 are stock on Volo TDi and Audi TDi. Now, the K14 is mounted on a Volvo 2.5 liter making about 140hp, the K16 is from a Audi making 115hp. Yes, bigger turbo less hp but that has more to do with the layout of the engine as a whole. Now, remember that these hp figures are for diesel engines. A diesel uses roughly twice the amount of air, actually more and it has to sustain that high flow of air. What des it mean? Well, if a K16 makes 115-140 (with a different ECU the numbers are more like 160-170 at least) it should be good for at least 280hp. I checked this with a swedish company called GIK Turbo and they sell a K16 upgrade making up to 290hp. In my world that is close to 275...

Oh, and about pumping out massive amounts of hp with stock exh. manifold. The stock layout easily pumps out 150hp, hour after hour. Bolt on a bigger turbo... You increase the boost pressure - you increase the exh. temp. This fact, coupled to the fact that you retain the stock exhasut means heat. Heat means trouble. Heat also means less hp. On the K04-15 the exh. house is the "same" as the K03 (I believe!), a narrow house which will probaly make alot of heat.... The heat will cause the same problem as seen on S2's with stock exh. manifolds - they break... I'm worried but I wouldn't bother even thinking about it. Just wanted to bring it up into the air. Well, well, just a thought..

So have you seen reliable numbers on dynoruns pointing towards 275-ish hp with a K04-15? I am very intrigued by the thought of the K04-15, just worried (a wee bit that is) about heat and lack of power output. If KKK says it's rated a 210, that MUST mean that it has the same potential as the S3 rated at 210 by KKK.... I hope so... But a real true life K04 with the same spec as the TT turbo would be nice. Anyone know anything of the K04-23? Supposed to be same exh. house but bigger turbine...
 
Henrik, I had a K04-23 ready to fit to my last car. Ex housing and comp wheel & housing are significantly larger than the K04-15. I too very much doubt a K04-15 can make 275 genuine BHP with the K03 ex housing.

Fitting a K04-23 involves making an adapter plate for both the stock manifold and downpipe, as well as different boost and intake plumbing. That turbo is good for 275 on the TT/S4.

As for using a K16 from a diesel, have you looked into this? In my experience Diesels use a totally different turbine wheel. Is it the same as a petrol K16 in this case?
 
audi upgrades
Hmm... Never heard of it but I'd say it's likely...

So the K04-23 isn't plug-n-play then??? Looked at MJM Turbos and they claim it is. Well. If it truly does make 235hp without ANY alteration to exhaust- or intakesystem then I'm impressed. In my book it means that it will pump out at least 250 with a decent IC, downpipe, catback and racecats... Which actually is quite ok concidering it was just an "upgrade". But, to that cost comes a S2 flywheel and clutch, new rear engine/tranny mounts and so on..

Oh and...Internals... I guess the conrods will look more like tulips after a while. Maybe 240-250 is like the reasonable limit - I mean, the stock internals might hold up pretty good for such modest boost pressure and power... If the K04-15 is reasonably priced here in Sweden maybe that's the route I'll go...
 
Internals are just fine! They are good for 300bhp easily.

My A3 is running over 300bhp now and still using the standard clutch....not a bit of slip yet! 250bhp is by no means a problem!

Rich
 
Mark, Mat, Henrik - thanks for all the info. Glad to hear that the 1.8T will do 240bhp with only the K04-015 and a remap. That will do me fine! Just need some of the guys asking the questions to tell Rich their details asap (I'm a moan I know - but my car is stood till I get the turbo!).

Does anyone have any idea what sort of torque to expect and where it will cut in. I find the standard 150bhp 1.8T is quite peeky with poor low down torque - I suppose it might be because I'm comparing it to my golf which must be about 250bhp/280lbs/ft (To be RR'ed soon). I hope the A4 feels a bit like the golf after the remap and K04!

As for the manifolds cracking, UrQ, s2 like, well I can understand the concern but has anyone actually heard of this happening? It must apply to all the remapped 1.8T's out there and I've yet to see anyone complaining of it happening - so fingers crossed!!
 
Just read the audi world tech article. So don't bother answering my question. 255 lbs/ft. That'll do nicely!
 
<font color="red"> I need to know who is in ASAP. Im putting the order in on Monday!!! Can EVERYONE please email me ASAP as we need to get this finalised if its to go ahead! </font>

Rich
 
audi upgrades
Simon,

Getting it fitted on saturday at the same time I am changing my timing belt. I am looking forward to having that bit more punch as I really notice my current turbo just not being able to supply as much air when foot flat to the floor especially in the higher rev range. I think I am running at a touch more boost with my K03 than first thought though. Depending on how accurate my boost gauge is, my reading suggest that I am running at 1.2 - 1.3 bar (18 - 20 psi). Bearing in mind I have a 1.0 bar chip and I have changed to a N75J valve I would have thought it would have been closer to 1.1 bar.

Anyway I am certainly intersted in what reading my boost gauge would give once the new turbo is fitted. In theory running a K04-15 @ 1.3 bar should put me into a more respectable power range though noting probably not as much as the S3/TT K04 varrient running at the same boost. To be honest (for the time being) I would be happy with around the 240 bhp @ fly figure because I reckon that should get the 1450 kg silver bullet (LOL) of mine certainly in the very low 6's and possibly sub 6 for the 0-62 mph time. I know its not all just about the 0-62 times but its my personnal target to try and get mine to sub 6. I would be intersted on any comments on the 0-62 time caparison especially when I look at the power to weight equiverlants to use as my 'rough &amp; dirty' tool.

S4 2.7TT = 1650 kg (though other soucres say 1595 kg so please correct me if I am wrong)
= 265 bhp
= 160 bhp/tonne (166 bhp/tonne using 1595kg)

A4 1.8TQS = 1450 kg
New power = 240 bhp
= 165 bhp/tonne

So by using this 'Rough &amp; Dirty' technique I reckon I should be looking at the low 6's or even sub 6 as the S4 is 5.7 as standard. I release that this is not entirely accurate hense the term 'Rough &amp; Dirty' but think its not too far off the mark. This method oviously doesnt include torque, power/torque distribution and transmition but note that the aerodynamics of the car will be alomst identical, the same torsen diff 4wd systems with same sized wheels on mine 18/225/40 (though not 100% sure on this). So thoughts please gents and feel free to correct me on any of my assumptions.
 
Power to weight will be about the same, but the thing with the S4 is the power is low down in the rev range, so off the mark, its quick! With the A4, you will need to hold the revs higher for a quick launch. It would be good if you can emasure your EGT's and AFR to make sure its running ok on fuelling once you've installed it... Upgrading to a 4bar FPR may also be a wise idea if you havent already...certainly dont want to be running lean.

Rich
 
[ QUOTE ]
RichA3Turbo said:
Internals are just fine! They are good for 300bhp easily.

My A3 is running over 300bhp now and still using the standard clutch....not a bit of slip yet! 250bhp is by no means a problem!

Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

Your internals would be fine... the 2xxHP motor has far stronger con-rods! The 150/80/90HP motor is only good for about 300lbs/ft reliably... that said there are plenty of people out there running far more. I have heard of a few rod breakages in my time/broken blocks. 250 should be a walk in the park though for the car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Clutch... I dont know :S
 
Mat,

I was well impressed with the K04 when I got it fitted to my Golf. The K03 with an AMD remap (215bhp and 249lbs/ft) seemed to run out of stream about 5000rpm and you wanted to change up. The K04 pulls cleanly to the red line (holds 1bar to red line). Not RR'd the Golf yet but it should be 250/260bhp and in a car that weighs 1250kg it feels pretty quick. Your car should get off the line nicely being the quattro. Think I might struggle a bit once the K04 is fitted to my A4 as it's FWD. Should be good once on the move though.

My tuner reckons that the limiting factor on the A4 may be the injectors (ignoring the IC and cat/exhaust). The Fuel Pressure Regulator in the A4 is 4 bar (different to the 3bar one in golfs, A3's, TTs etc Rich). VAG must have had a reason to fit a higher pressure regulator to the A4, to me it seems likely that the injectors have a lower flow rate and therefore the higher pressure counters that to keep the duty cycle within spec - just a guess! My tuner also says that S2 injectors fit and luckily for me my mate has an S2 and a spare set, so I'll probably try them for size.

As for measuring EGT's (exhaust gas temperature), it's a great thing to do to make sure the car isn't running too lean. I have installed thermocouples into the Golf to measure this and inlet temp (a bit sad I know) - I followed the instructions on this link:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&amp;A=0376

Don't know if I'll do it on the A4 though as it took a weekend. How do you measure yours Rich?

Mat - be sure to let us know how it goes after the weekend. I'm sure they will be a few people involved with the GB that will be interested. Thanks.
 
[ QUOTE ]
simon_golf_tt said:
Mat,

I was well impressed with the K04 when I got it fitted to my Golf. The K03 with an AMD remap (215bhp and 249lbs/ft) seemed to run out of stream about 5000rpm and you wanted to change up. The K04 pulls cleanly to the red line (holds 1bar to red line). Not RR'd the Golf yet but it should be 250/260bhp and in a car that weighs 1250kg it feels pretty quick. Your car should get off the line nicely being the quattro. Think I might struggle a bit once the K04 is fitted to my A4 as it's FWD. Should be good once on the move though.

My tuner reckons that the limiting factor on the A4 may be the injectors (ignoring the IC and cat/exhaust). The Fuel Pressure Regulator in the A4 is 4 bar (different to the 3bar one in golfs, A3's, TTs etc Rich). VAG must have had a reason to fit a higher pressure regulator to the A4, to me it seems likely that the injectors have a lower flow rate and therefore the higher pressure counters that to keep the duty cycle within spec - just a guess! My tuner also says that S2 injectors fit and luckily for me my mate has an S2 and a spare set, so I'll probably try them for size.

As for measuring EGT's (exhaust gas temperature), it's a great thing to do to make sure the car isn't running too lean. I have installed thermocouples into the Golf to measure this and inlet temp (a bit sad I know) - I followed the instructions on this link:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&amp;A=0376

Don't know if I'll do it on the A4 though as it took a weekend. How do you measure yours Rich?

Mat - be sure to let us know how it goes after the weekend. I'm sure they will be a few people involved with the GB that will be interested. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Simon,

I use VAG-COM!

So the A4 injectors are smaller capacity to Golf/A3 .etc, but use a 4bar FPR to consensate? If this is the case, I have the old injectors that came off my A3...If anyone wants them, then you can have them for a few ££!

Cheers

Rich

 
[ QUOTE ]
welshdragon said:
Rich,

You mention measuring the EGT's and APR, exactly what are these? And what is used to measure them? EGT's = Exhaust Gas Temperartures??? APR = I couldnt even guess. I take it these would be the main indications on whether the car is running lean then. I was actually thinking of getting the adjustable fuel pressure regualr (FPR) rather than the 4.0 bar one. Any thoughts whether this may aid in tweaking the fuel system to gain a better effect rather than just fitting the 4.0 bar version. I was also wondering because they say the Bosh 4.0 bar FPR is OEM, does that mean its the OEM part for the S3/TT?

[/ QUOTE ]

EGT = Exhaust Gas Temperature
AFR = Air/Feul Ratio (meant AFR not APR)

And yes, to measure if the mixture is lean/rich!

I think the S3/TT have a 4bar FPR as stadnard...im using a 4bar FPR but not sure what car it came off. I can get the part number if thats any help?
 
Rich,

You mention measuring the EGT's and APR, exactly what are these? And what is used to measure them? EGT's = Exhaust Gas Temperartures??? APR = I couldnt even guess. I take it these would be the main indications on whether the car is running lean then. I was actually thinking of getting the adjustable fuel pressure regualr (FPR) rather than the 4.0 bar one. Any thoughts whether this may aid in tweaking the fuel system to gain a better effect rather than just fitting the 4.0 bar version. I was also wondering because they say the Bosh 4.0 bar FPR is OEM, does that mean its the OEM part for the S3/TT?
 
Th A4 inlet manifold is completely different to the inline motors and the injectors are different, so A3 ones are no good.

Rich - didn't know vagcom measured EGT? Lambda yes but EGT is news to me. This would mean that there is a thermocouple fitted as standard to your car???
 
[ QUOTE ]
simon_golf_tt said:
Th A4 inlet manifold is completely different to the inline motors and the injectors are different, so A3 ones are no good.

Rich - didn't know vagcom measured EGT? Lambda yes but EGT is news to me. This would mean that there is a thermocouple fitted as standard to your car???

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for the confusion... Dont use VAG-COM to measure EGT's... I meant for inlet temps.

I know the manifolds are different, but all 1.8T's use standard size bosch injectors... They will fit.

Rich
 
Rich - so what do you use to measure the EGTs then?

Maybe you are right about the injectors. Definitely different fpr pressures though. The S2 injectors don't fit my golf - so if they do fit the A4 then they are different. We'll see.
 
[ QUOTE ]
simon_golf_tt said:
Rich - so what do you use to measure the EGTs then?

Maybe you are right about the injectors. Definitely different fpr pressures though. The S2 injectors don't fit my golf - so if they do fit the A4 then they are different. We'll see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably find the S2 injectors are different. i know for a fact that all 1.8T's use the same phsyical size injectors... the A4 can use TT/S3 injectors... But as i said before, mine are going if anyone want them!

Rich
 
Rich

Are yours from the 1.8T A3? If so they are a lower flow rate that the 225 TT and S3 ones - aren't they?
 
[ QUOTE ]
simon_golf_tt said:
Rich

Are yours from the 1.8T A3? If so they are a lower flow rate that the 225 TT and S3 ones - aren't they?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep from A3 1.8T... But if what has been said is correct, they are higher capacity to A4 injectors but run at a lower pressure as standard. TT/S3 injectors are higher rate again.

Rich
 
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