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  1. #1
    sam4191's Avatar
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    250bhp from 1.8T

    Hi guys!

    In my quest to decide whether to swap my car in in february, what would it need to see 250bhp from the 1.8T? I have seen that you can see 193bhp from a simple remap (from the 150 unit), but surely, this would require changes, like injectors, etc? Is this the same engine as an A3?

    Thanks

    Sam


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  3. #2
    Broken Byzan's Avatar
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    A turbo change and assosiated hoses ( TIP etc), FMIC, injectors, stage3 map,Downpipe. all do able though

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    sam4191's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan A4 View Post
    A turbo change and assosiated hoses ( TIP etc), FMIC, injectors, stage3 map,Downpipe. all do able though
    Turbo change.... hmm.. sounds expensive? lol. FMIC? what is that? what is the max power to be had out of the standard turbo? K03 is it?


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    k03s will normally net around 220 bhp ish with a Front Mount Inter Cooler(FMIC) and a decent exhaust. More can be got, but you are wringing the neck out of the small snail in the A3

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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Standard Turbo is pretty much flat out at 200hp.

    FMIC is a front mount intercooler.

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    the "S" nets around 210 to 220 depending usually.

  8. #7
    sam4191's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzan A4 View Post
    k03s will normally net around 220 bhp ish with a Front Mount Inter Cooler(FMIC) and a decent exhaust. More can be got, but you are wringing the neck out of the small snail in the A3
    Right, I see what you're saying. i would really want to pusha turbo to its limit. Could it be replaced by a K04, or something that could handle the 250 desired easily? (as you can see... i need to do more research/am trying to learn about turbo's) So thanks for the help!


  9. #8
    audinary's Avatar
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    Bear in mind we're talking Audi horsepowers here, which are bigger. 150 Audi horsepowers = about 180 Ford ones.

    Or something.

    '98 Santorin Blue 1.8t Sport

  10. #9
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    I've currently got 235 - 240 (depending on the day and fuel) out of my A3 150 T Sport with the mods listed in my signature, on a REVO Stage 1 map.

    I got a K03S turbo for 300 so not that expensive, and with a little know how me and a few friends changed it.

    I'm using a Manual Boost Controller on my engine which is an AGU (A little more forgiving due to lack of MAP sensor) to get better boost through the mid range and top end revs.

    But thats about as far a I am going to get with it really, maybe a few extra BHP from a exhaust manifold, but thats about as much as you can realistically get.

    I enquired about a K04 turbo on my AGU (not sure what engine code yours is) however have been told that without uprated Con Rods, they are quite likely to cause serious problems. But then again, that was planning to get 270 out of the K04, not 250 so you may be OK....

    Hope my experiences help!
    Last edited by Welly; 3rd November 2009 at 12:00.
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    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I wouldnt have thaught you'd run into conrod issues at 270hp...

    A K04-015 or a Scroll hybrid should see you to 250+ hp

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    jcb
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    its not the horse power its the nasty torque spikes you get from squeezing too much out of small turbos.
    much more likely to ventilate a block running stratospheric boost trying to get 275+bhp out of a ko3s than you are running 300 from a 28RS at low boost

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    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcb View Post
    its not the horse power its the nasty torque spikes you get from squeezing too much out of small turbos.
    much more likely to ventilate a block running stratospheric boost trying to get 275+bhp out of a ko3s than you are running 300 from a 28RS at low boost
    275+ BHP out of a K03S is simply impossible.
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    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    275+ BHP out of a K03S is simply impossible.
    ...think that figure was just an example mate.

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    Welly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Goodall View Post
    ...think that figure was just an example mate.
    Not according to a lad I know! lol
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    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Coincidently I have about 250HP but will soon be closer to 300HP if my plans all come together (1.8T AEB).

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    Lee Goodall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    Not according to a lad I know! lol
    Ha ha yeah I know the sort.

  18. #17
    jcb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    275+ BHP out of a K03S is simply impossible.

    says who?
    I was using it as an example as it happens but there are plenty of cars on the web with higher figures than that.

    think about it, 180bhp at 9psi from a stock tune. 275 IS acheivable



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chuXU0dDE00


    cruise through here and you will see all the dynos you need of ko3 and ko3s tuned 20v's

    http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2698530&page=2

    "Stock K03s
    Custom 1.4 bar Program (Needs to be updated)
    Samco TIP
    Turbo back with OBX 3" down pipe
    Forge 007 DV
    CAI
    N75H
    189.6 hp
    236 Lb/ft"


    not as un-acheivable as you think.
    plenty of people broken 300 with ko4's.

    acheivable? yes.
    advisable? no.

  19. #18
    sam4191's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Welly View Post
    I've currently got 235 - 240 (depending on the day and fuel) out of my A3 150 T Sport with the mods listed in my signature, on a REVO Stage 1 map.

    I got a K03S turbo for 300 so not that expensive, and with a little know how me and a few friends changed it.

    I'm using a Manual Boost Controller on my engine which is an AGU (A little more forgiving due to lack of MAP sensor) to get better boost through the mid range and top end revs.

    But thats about as far a I am going to get with it really, maybe a few extra BHP from a exhaust manifold, but thats about as much as you can realistically get.

    I enquired about a K04 turbo on my AGU (not sure what engine code yours is) however have been told that without uprated Con Rods, they are quite likely to cause serious problems. But then again, that was planning to get 270 out of the K04, not 250 so you may be OK....

    Hope my experiences help!
    Yeh, that helps alot thanks buddy! I haven't actually got one yet. Im conemplating trading the v6 A4 in for a 1.8t, so was interested to see what's involved to get the desired 250bhp! lol! Am getting more and more toward getting one by the second!

    Thanks for the help guys! I may be back if i get one/look at one! =D


  20. #19
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I really dont think you could get 275hp from a longitudinal K03/K03s, the exhaust turbine housing is just far too small.

    A k04 on a transverse car is a different story, the turbo is a lot larger, and the exhaust housing will flow a lot more air.

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  21. #20
    jcb
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    I would have thought the K03/KO3s on a transverse and longitudinal both have the same A/R exhaust turbine? no?

  22. #21
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    no idea, i've never seen a k03s from a transverse engine, but the turbine housing is part of the manifold on those cars, so its certainly different to a longitudinal motor.

    If you have a dyno plot of a 275hp k03 powered car, then in my opinion the dyno is lying. Even IF you didnt run off the end of the compressor map (and i highly suspect you would) the turbine housing would start causing that much back pressure that you'd eventually be adding boost and losing power.

    A k04-02x (as fitted to the TT/S3) is a different story, as unlike the K04-015 on the A4, its a much larger turbo, and 275hp from one of them probably is doable without too much trouble.

    Just look at the difference in size between a K03 from an A4 and a T28. The T28 is flat out around 300-310hp, yet its massive in comparison with the K03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcb View Post
    I would have thought the K03/KO3s on a transverse and longitudinal both have the same A/R exhaust turbine? no?
    A/R has nothing to do with how much it flows.

  24. #23
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    Of course it does.

    A housing with a larger A/R will spool slower but provide less resistance and therefore will flow more air and produce more power. A smaller A/R will provide a faster spool, at the detriment of overall flow and power.

    Obviously it only holds when the exhaust turbine diameter is fixed, ie a larger turbine with a smaller A/R could flow more than a small turbine with a large A/R

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  25. #24
    jcb
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    Quote Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
    no idea, i've never seen a k03s from a transverse engine, but the turbine housing is part of the manifold on those cars, so its certainly different to a longitudinal motor.
    not integrated.
    manifold is essentially the same as ours, the turbine housing does point down instead of back but the central CRHA/bearing housing/turbine assembly/size is the same from transverse to longitudinal. they just make new housings for each platform.

    [IMG]http://www.newbeetle.org/forums/attachments/parts-accessories/48001d1219689626-ko3s-turbo-sale-100_0156.jpg[\IMG]

    as you say the flow for an output of 275bhp is likely to be well past the compressor map efficiency curve and it will be basically pumping hot air.
    It doesn't take away from the fact that there a lot of dyno proven 275+ transverse cars in existance. they can't all be made up dynos.
    Last edited by jcb; 4th November 2009 at 18:51.

  26. #25
    "Stick a V8 in it!"

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    I dont doubt there are 275hp transverse engined cars around, what i do doubt is that they're doing it with a K03S turbo.

    http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/k03_2072.gif

    Thats the comp map for a k03 (not sure exactly which) which shows at 180000rpm the turbo is peaking around 0.15m^3/s. That converts to around 24lb/hr, and the accepted conversion is 24lb/hr ~= 240hp.

    http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/k04-0025.jpg

    Thats the map for a K04 (the one fitted to an RS4 incidentally), and its map only stretches to 0.18m^3/s at 183000rpm, meaning a peak of 29.1lb/hr or ~290hp

    That would suggest to me that the K03 is flat out at around 230-240hp and the K04 around 280-300

    To get any more flow, means you need to spin the compressor even faster, and at 180000rpm the turbine will be acting like a MASSIVE restriction in the exhaust, not to mention its probably in excess of maximum permissable shaft speed, resulting in the turbo selfdestructing in about 10 minutes.

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