Brake upgrade suggestions

Oranoco

Oranoco

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The 285mm stock brakes on my 1.8T Sport are suffering under the stick I give them. End of Sept I hope to have some spare cash and want to make the old girl stop properly (especially as a trip to The Ring is planned).

Had a look at Brembo and AP but they are well out of the budget. I can probably go to £450-600 or there abouts. Had a look for Wilwood but couldn't find any application or price lists. Maybe sticking with the 312mm conversion would be the best option. Don't want to just go that route then find I could have got something better for not a lot more money
 
I suspect that unless you drive like a loon ;) 312's combined with some good pads will see you alright.

You probably find good pads on the 288's would transform the braking, but the cost of the 312mm upgrade is small.

If your willing to spend a little more, then drop in a set of S4 uprights, S4 brakes and again good pads.

Worth bearing in mind that if you go too heavy on the front your overall stopping distance will increase as you'll move the bias forward, unforutnately its not particularly easy to fix it. early A6's have a seperate disk and hub, and i suspect something could be adapted to fit using those parts but it would be a game of trial and error.
 
Oranoco said:
The 285mm stock brakes on my 1.8T Sport are suffering under the stick I give them. End of Sept I hope to have some spare cash and want to make the old girl stop properly (especially as a trip to The Ring is planned).

Had a look at Brembo and AP but they are well out of the budget. I can probably go to £450-600 or there abouts. Had a look for Wilwood but couldn't find any application or price lists. Maybe sticking with the 312mm conversion would be the best option. Don't want to just go that route then find I could have got something better for not a lot more money
Click to expand...

You have a PM
 
i would think that for the budget he's got its going to be far better value buying some used calipers/carriers and the appropriate uprights, than buying a brand new brake setup from hispec?

Personally i'd look at using B6 alloy uprights and S4 parts.
 
The hispec brakes would come within the budget depending on which type he went for. Ive been in there and some of the kits are arround £450
 
£450-600 will get you a full set of used RS4 calipers and discs front and back a two new uprights. hover around RS246 or SRS for people doing B7 upgrades.

I got 4 calipers, 4 discs (2 rears were new) pads for the rear and hoses from a 2001 RS4 for £300 collected
£40 for two new uprights and £70 for two new bearings.

twin pot front 360mm vented discs. big difference
And I think Docurley and Sienna has sorted some replacement discs at less than selling a kidney prices
 
Sounds ok cool but for people with less knowledge on what uprights to get etc and i have no idea if the rear calipers\disks are bolt on etc.
 
bolt on rears.
Front RS calipers need RS4 or S4 uprights, usually £20-30 each
 
jcb: only on a quattro...

FWD A4's rear disks contain the hub bearings and hub so its not easy to change them...

I'd like to get a hold of some hubs from a C4 A6, as they use the same stub axle and bearing as the B5, but have a seperate disk and hub assy, so should be possible to use those and knock something up.

Need to get the parts and look at them on the car though before you can really work out what you need to do.
 
Yer so in that case the rears are tricky.

If i ever come across a suitable A6 in the scrappy and they're not wanting stupid money i will grab a hub and look into the dimensions etc for it working on the A4.
 
i just bought complete s4 uprights discs calipers etc on ebay £265 are they a straight swap onto my 1.8tqs or will i need to change any thing, bearing driveshaft etc..

also how much would decent pads cost, any recomendations and where from
 
1.8 TQS's have smaller front drive flanges and i think smaller outer CV's compared with an S4.

I think you will need the larger driveshafts, and larger drive flanges. The box flanges can come from a FWD 1.8T or V6 box. I'm not sure if a set of FWD V6 shafts will work with your S4 hubs though, you'd need to check, but i think they should?

As for pads, your probably talking £100 for good ones (ie DS2500's or M1144's etc) or £30ish for some standard things from the motorfactors.
 
you need the outer CV from the S4 on your A4 front drive shafts.
I bought a pair of RS4 drive shafts from Unit 20 and knocked the outers off and onto mine. cost me £40-50 IIRC
 
Markey said:
The hispec brakes would come within the budget depending on which type he went for. Ive been in there and some of the kits are arround £450
Click to expand...


just rang them more like £1000 for 300mm and above
 
Mintex and Ferrodo pads are about £130, I was looking at a set last time but opted for standard Ferrodo items due to ongoing earache from Valdermort.
 
Markey said:
What pot kit was that they have them on the wall of the entrance with the prices. Unless they have hiked them up due to the climate.
Click to expand...


thought id try them as iam looking for a good vaule upgrade myself ,when i rang he said dont do any kit for audi's under a grand on any pot cailpers be it 4 or 6
and dont do any rear set ups only front ? i said is this a good idea as i thought you would be moving the brake bias to the front and would increase braking dist he said this is rubish
 
sounds like someone to avoid in the future
 
i thought you want front bias
you certainly wouldnt want rears locking up before fronts, that happened to me in a mk1 golf i converted to rear discs and i ended up facing the wrong way on a roundabout
ok the a4 has abs but ive always thought the fronts do most of the braking, most cars ive owned theres been some sort of adjuster or restricter for the rears (i added one to the mk1 after that incident)
 
old_skool:

Maximum stopping will occur when all 4 wheels are putting the maximum braking torque possible down onto the road.

As you say, standard cars are setup slightly front bias, which is fine, and should be retained for stability.

The problem occurs when you fit giant fronts and leave the rears alone. The factory bias might be for instance 75 front 25 rear, which takes into account weight transfer under braking and suchlike. If you fit your huge fronts and change this to say 85 front and 15 rear, your stopping distance will increase.

The reason for this is the stopping distance is governed by the tyres, not the brakes. The standard 288's can overpower the tyres as it is, so by moving the bias 10% forward, that means at the point where the fronts are about to lock up (ie maximum braking before the ABS kicks in) the rears are now putting something like 30% less torque down than before, so the TOTAL torque the tyres can now transfer to the road before the ABS intervenes decreases.

Obviously the larger fronts will give better feel, and wont overheat as readily, which makes them seem better. But in reality, in an emergency style braking situation, you'll have increased your stopping distance, as the rear tyres are doing less work than they could.

To over come this, you can use smaller pistons in your 4/6/8 pot caliper, which means that for a given line pressure, your applying less force to the pad, this combined with the disk being larger means the before and after bias ends up the same, but your gaining the better cooling and feel from the larger disk, or alternatively you upgrade the rears by a similar amount.

http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/images/product/brakes/ECS-Stage3v1/Caliper-Piston-Sizing-S4.pdf

That chart has the bias values for some different stock options and also for some of the aftermarket kits.

http://s4wiki.com/wiki/Brakes#What.27s_a_BBK.3F

Thats a nice FAQ that covers some of the points.
 
very informative!
so s4 fronts with some decent rear pads should be fine for me?
 
jcb said:
you need the outer CV from the S4 on your A4 front drive shafts.
I bought a pair of RS4 drive shafts from Unit 20 and knocked the outers off and onto mine. cost me £40-50 IIRC
Click to expand...


s4 fronts now on, didnt need cv joints my existing ones fitted straight into the s4 hubs?
did you think it was fwd or has my car got the wrong ones fitted?
ive got some spare cv joints now anyway
 
Which car did you fit them to? The TQS?

I think there are two sizes of outer, so presumably your car already had the larger ones fitted.
 
interesting. mines a 99 tqs too, had smaller CV's.
have CV envy now...well I would have if they were still on!
 
im just about to go s4 brakes on the front of my tqs let u know what happens mine 2000 model finger crossed lol:jester:
 
olds_kool said:
If you need cv joints ive got a pair going cheap
Click to expand...


Cheers mate ill let u know,

Sort S4 Caliper are NOT a staoght swap for the TQs one?

So can someone give me a list of what i need, i have the caliper and pads what else do i need

Cheers Gareth
 
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